Tab extension cord & step down from 30Amp to House questions

lkc001

Hello all!  #1--should I use a dedicated RV 30 amp extension if needed to go from the Surge Protector which is plugged into the garage outlet to the trailer 30amp power cord, or is there some other kind of heavy duty extension cord that can be used?       #2---is this the correct order of plug-in?  Surge protector in garage/house outlet,  then 30amp step-down to 20 amp dog-bone, then 30 amp extension cord, then trailer 30 amp power cord to trailer outlet?

Thank you

ScottG

@lkc001, what are you plugging into in your garage? Is it a regular 15 or 20 amp outlet, or do you have a special 30 amp outlet installed.

The short-but-no-so-short answer is that you need to used a cord with wires heavy enough to carry the current being drawn through it. The gauge (thickness) of the wires themselves is more important than how you end up connecting them together.

dsfdogs

@lkc001 As I am an overly cautious person, if I needed an extension, I would get a 30 amp. And actually, I should get one in case a camp site electrical post is too far away (it's not a very exciting purchase though)!

Sharon_is_SAM

We purchased a 10 ft 30 amp extension cord from Amazon.  If you are plugging into a standard 15 or 20 amp 110 v outlet here is the order starting at the outlet:

20 amp to 30 amp adapter, then 30 amp surge protector/EMS, then 30 amp extension cord, followed by TaB 30 amp cord

Be aware of the potential amp draw of the Alde (16 amps) on the 15 amp outlet.  

lkc001

@ScottG--as far as I know the outlets on the wall(s) in my garage are just regular house outlets.  There are two outlets upside down on a rafter that the garage door opener plugs into.  I'll be parking my trailer beside the garage so the regular trailer 30Amp plug is not long enough to reach.

Awca12a

The short answer is that unless you are OK limiting the trailer to 20-amps or less whenever you are using the trailer this way, you should get a longer 30-amp cable.  The issue that @scottg was referring to is something called voltage drop which happens as you get further from the original source (electrical panel) of the electric circuit.  To minimize voltage drop, electricians use a sufficiently heavy gauge wire to overcome the losses allowing them to keep 30-amps of availablity wherever they place the outlet.  By going from 30 to 20 you break that chain and are immediately reduced to the 20.  Depending on the quality of that 20 amp extn cord and it's length, you may even be reduced further than 20.

As to #2, assuming you have a 30-amp connector in the garage, the order is:
1) 30amp wall outlet
2) surge supressor
3) 30 to 20 dogbone
4) 20 amp extn cord
5) 20 to 30 dogbone
6) 30 amp cable to trailer

This is because the wall out let is a specialized 30-amp outlet and the trailer is a 30-amp twistlock outlet.  In between to extend with a 20amp you need to go up and down the outlet conversion process.

lkc001

@Awca12a ---What I am wanting to do is to be able to have power (electric) in the Tab occasionally while working on it, or putzing around in the Tab.  That would include running the AC in the summer, if that is possible (or do I HAVE TO HAVE a dedicated 30amp or 50amp to run AirConditioner?).  I do not know if I have a 30Amp outlet in the garage.    So now I am confused by your list on #2.  I thought I just had to step down from the trailer 30 Amp to the garage outlet, (or step up from the standard house/110/20amp outlet in the garage to the 30amp trailer power cord.  Of course, using the surge protector in there somewhere as well.

lkc001

@Sharon_is_SAM--thank you, that makes more sense to my brain.   What exactly do you mean by "Be aware of the potential amp draw of the Alde (16 amps) on the 15 amp outlet"?  Do you mean I might be tripping breakers?  

Sharon_is_SAM

Yes.  If you are connected to a 30 amp outlet, you can use a variety of TaB electronics up to 30 amps (AC, fan, pump, etc).  You are limited to 20 amps in your garage outlet.  The Alde on full tilt on electric runs at 16 amps.  So, if you only have a 15 amp outlet.... you understand.

lkc001

@Sharon_is_SAM --Thanks again!  So, can I use the Alde for heat on propane & just use the electric for lights, or does the system automatically kind of "default" to electric if you're plugged in?  And, additionally, am I correct in that Air conditioning will probably not work unless I have a dedicated 30 amp in the garage, since it draws so much power?   

Awca12a

Couple of suggestions:
Go through this site here as it's specific for your 320.
https://jenngrover.com/jenns-top-answers-and-troubleshooting-steps-for-tb-320-owners/

People have run the AC on 2000w generators with no problem so technically, your 20-amp connection would be OK.  BUT, those generators have cutoff switches to protect themselves and the cable used is a 30-amp and is very short.  We hvae no idea how long your 20-amp extension cable will be, nor the quality of its wiring, the ambient temperature, what other devices may be using that circuit drawing down on it's available power nor what over equipment you might be running in the T@B.  So, while I personally wouldn't run the AC but would run a 30-amp circuit to the garage so the T@B could be self sufficient, others here will say they've done it with no problem.  And likely they have; but, the information above is from 20-years in the electrical industry.  What works fine in NY at 72-degrees on a good quality extn cord doesn't translate so well in Texas at 101 degrees on a Home Depot special.

The 16-amps for Alde mentioned above refers to running Alde while also running the electrical elements as well.  You can get heat using propane for a much lower amperage budget.  To give you some perspective, I've attached the boondock calculation spreadsheet for the 400.   The figures for Alde using electrical elements or AC are greyed out because they draw so much you need to be connected to shore power.

There was one done for the 320 perhaps even by Jenn but I think you can see from this one here that each electrical device has a specific draw.   You have a budget for electrical consumption sort of like calories for the day and when you've used up your allotment, that's it.

Also included a section on the Alde because it talks about the propane vs electric settings which may be helpful to you.  I have a 400 so may be talking out of my shoe on the 320 but electrical draw is the same regardless of RV make or model.

lkc001

@Awca12a— more great info to read— thank you!

Sharon_is_SAM

@lkc001, when you are on shorepower and also elect to use propane with the Alde,  the Alde does default to shorepower until the cabin temperature drops a couple of degrees below the thermostat setting, at which point the propane kicks in for a combined maximum electrical/propane heating amounting to 5 Kw.  

The AC is on it’s own 110 circuit with a 20 amp breaker, so it should be fine on your garage outlet up to 20 amps.  Not sure how often it actually draws a full 20 amps and keep in mind, you will also want to run the separate AC fan, too.  

dragonsdofly

@Ikc001, we have our t@b 320S plugged into a regular exterior household plug, on a 15 amp circuit. I use a 15 amp heavy duty (exterior) extension cord plugged into the house, a 15 amp to 30 amp adapter, surge protector then the t@b 30 amp power cord plugged into the surge protector. With this set-up, which I believe would be the same as yours, in the summer, I can run the a/c, the fridge on electric and run lights, etc. I turn off the fridge if I run the microwave. But there is adequate power to run the a/c, lights, extra lighting, and a sewing machine and crock pot on that 15 amp circuit without tripping the house breaker. In winter, you can run the alde on a setting of "1", use lights, extra lighting, and an electric muti-function tool, without tripping the 15 amp breaker. Do NOT run the alde on a setting of "2" while plugged into a 15 or 20 amp circuit.

I know everyone is giving you great information,  but each has their own way of relaying it, and I know if I'm rereading, or double checking to make sure I understand everything,  you may be confused too, so I have explained what I have set-up and done exactly to eliminate any obtuse information. I have had my trailer hooked up in my backyard for almost 3 years this way, so I'm pretty sure there is adequate power to do the things i have detailed.
Btw, since my trailer is plugged into an exterior outlet on my house, it has gfci protection, should there be water intrusion into my cord connections. If you are plugging into an interior outlet your power source will probably not have gfci protection, which is ok if the t@b is also stored inside, but if the plug is interior and the cord runs outside if the t@b is stored outside, I would have gfci protection installed. That is my only item to check in what you want to do.

If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask. -Denise

ScottG

@lkc001, getting back to your original question...

Assuming you have a properly wired house, the "regular" 120 volt outlet that you are plugged into will be protected by a 15 or 20 amp circuit breaker in your house (or garage) panel. (The number stamped on the breaker will tell you whether it is 15 or 20 amp).

There's certainly no harm in using a 30 amp rated cord on a 20 amp circuit, but there's no advantage to it, either. The aforementioned circuit breaker will trip if you overload the circuit by turning on too many devices at one time, regardless of the size of your extension cord.

The sizing of wires is a safety issue. Drawing too much current through too small a wire causes the wire to overheat and create a fire hazard. At very long distances, voltage drop can also be an issue, but this not a safety concern and is not the primary reason why wire size requirements exist.

In short, you only need an extension cord that meets the amperage rating of the household circuit to which you are connecting it. 14 gauge wire will handle 15 amps, 12 gauge is required for 20 amps, and 10 gauge for 30 amps. Wire gauge sizes are usually stamped on the exterior of the cord.

So, if you have a sufficient extension cord laying around there's no reason you can't use it. However, if you are faced with purchasing a new cord, you may want to consider shelling out for that 30 amp RV extension cord so (as dsfdogs suggested above) you can also use it on a 30 amp campground circuit.

lkc001

Thank you all so much for taking the time to give detailed information— I will be purchasing a heavy duty 30 amp RV extension & surge protection— safety first for me when it comes to anything electric— I have @ 20 feet to run from the outlet in the garage through the small garage door then to the trailer. Don’t have a microwave so wouldn’t be using that.  You peeps are great!

ScottG

That sounds like a good plan, @lkc001. Just remember that the larger cord won't necessarily increase safety, nor will it allow you to run additional devices in the T@B when plugged in at home. That is the providence of the house circuit breaker, and it will still trip if you overload it.

However, practically speaking, you are unlikely to experience this unless you try to run both Alde electric heaters (16 amps) and your air conditioner (~6 amps???) at the same time.

And, if you do trip a circuit breaker at your house, it's not a crisis. At least you know it is doing its job protecting you and your property.  :-) 

Sharon_is_SAM

We have a 30 amp extension cord for use with the TaB in the driveway and at the campground.  We also carry a regular extension cord to be used on the 110 outlet at the campsite pedestal or from the passenger side exterior outlet.  It is handy for using a fan or charging devices while we sit out in the tent.

Mouseketab

In all the cases where I've had to use a standard outlet. I use the T@B cord, a 30-Amp extension cord if needed, and then an adapter at the outlet. I would never put a standard extension cord (even a heavy duty one) in the mix.

klenger

One way to approach this issue is to make a custom power cord of the proper length and gauge with connectors that attach directly to the camper and the wall outlet.  You could use 12 gauge wire up to about 25' or move up to 10 gauge wire for longer lengths.  

This is a connector you can use on the camper end: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00002NAT8/

The other parts are available from your local hardware (Home Depot, Lowes, etc) stores.  Unless you know that you will need this cable when camping, you can just leave it at home and use the standard power cord for camping.   I have a 12 gauge 25' version of this cord for connecting to a small generator w/o any adapters.

lkc001

@klenger--thank you for the info, but  I recognize my own limitations, and like Clint Eastwood said. . . . . "got to know. . . . . "--I'll purchase appropriate gauge, heavy duty RV specific cables.

klenger

Understood.  There may be others in the group who feel they can accomplish this.  I do not like adapters, but prefer to have systems that connect directly to each other as much as possible.

northwestinatab

Hello everyone,

This thread has been very helpful as I'm thinking about how to safely plug my Tab 320s into the electricity at my sister's house, and then at a friend's house.  I have three questions though, that I have searched for answers to, and cannot find.  I would greatly appreciate anyone's advice!
1) if i use my 15-30 amp adapter to plug into a 20 amp outlet, am I then limiting my amps to 15 (the adapter?) or will I still benefit from the 20 amp outlet?  is this safe?
2) if the answer to #1 is no, can someone please share where i can find a 20-30 amp adapter?  i am having trouble finding one...
3) my friends have regular household outlets and also a 220v outlet in their garage.  I understand that the 220v is a NO-NO, but am wondering if this is true even with a voltage adapter?  they say their other friend uses an adapter and plugs her camper van into the 220v outlet...  i am worried about this given the emphasis people place on not using this kind of outlet...

thanks very much for whatever advice you can offer!

JEB

northwestinatab said:

Hello everyone,

This thread has been very helpful as I'm thinking about how to safely plug my Tab 320s into the electricity at my sister's house, and then at a friend's house.  I have three questions though, that I have searched for answers to, and cannot find.  I would greatly appreciate anyone's advice!
1) if i use my 15-30 amp adapter to plug into a 20 amp outlet, am I then limiting my amps to 15 (the adapter?) or will I still benefit from the 20 amp outlet?  is this safe?
2) if the answer to #1 is no, can someone please share where i can find a 20-30 amp adapter?  i am having trouble finding one...
3) my friends have regular household outlets and also a 220v outlet in their garage.  I understand that the 220v is a NO-NO, but am wondering if this is true even with a voltage adapter?  they say their other friend uses an adapter and plugs her camper van into the 220v outlet...  i am worried about this given the emphasis people place on not using this kind of outlet...

thanks very much for whatever advice you can offer!

#1  You will still benefit from the 20A circuit in the sense that you won't pop the breaker quite as easily.  Often the adapters are designated "15A"  as a form of shorthand to identify the plug pattern, not the current limit.  This is not the case with cords, however.  The amp rating makes a big difference over long runs.

#2  NA

#3  Not sure what adapter you are referring to but it sounds like a step-down transformer.  They are big and bulky and I'm not sure how well they'd work in this application, but if you get one big enough (maybe in the 3000 or more watt range) you might be able to eke out a few more amps than a standard 110-120v household circuit would provide.  But they get hot and are inefficient and most can't be left outdoors.  

ScottG

@northwestinatab,

1) (short answer...) No. Yes. Yes.

1) (longer answer...) The amperage you can draw from your outlet is limited by the capacity of the circuit on which the outlet is located. It has nothing to do with the adapter you use. Standard household outlets are designed for 15 amp plugs, but may be on 15 or 20 amp circuits. Any cord you used to plug in the T@B should be rated for at least 20 amps, but your 30 amp trailer cord (which I assume you are using) is more than sufficient.

2) (short answer...) Not applicable.

2) (longer answer...) 20 amp plugs are shaped differently. Even if such an adapter existed, you probably wouldn't be able to plug it into your regular household outlet. Your existing 15-30 amp adapter is more than sufficient.

3) (short answer...) There is no short answer.

3) (longer answer...) Your friend's adapter may be just a plug adapter designed to draw from only one "hot" leg of a 120/240 volt outlet. This effectively means only 120 volts is going to the camper. If you had a 30 amp (minimum) 120/240 volt outlet and the correct adapter you could get more current to the T@B. However, if you're faced with adding an outlet, just add a 30 amp 120 volt RV outlet like those you see in campgrounds. Regardless, you probably don't need to do this unless you plan to run all your 120V electrical devices at the same time.

(EDIT: And I agree with everything JEB said above. Looks like we were replying at the same time.)

Sharon_is_SAM

@northwestinatab,

Let me preface this by saying you should use a surge protector when you plug in anywhere.

1.  Just to be sure, check your breaker box in the house or garage that supplies the outlet that you are going to use.  That is the best way to know to what you are limited in terms of amps - it should be 15 or 20 amps.  As JEB said, your 15 to 30 adapter will carry the amperage from the outlet that you use.

2.  You can use your 15 - 30 amp adapter in a regular household outlet.  That is what we use.

3.  RVs and Motorhomes require either 30 amp or 50 amp supply for full use of their appliances.  As you know, the 30 amp is supplied by 110 - 120 volt current at a campground pedestal using our funny looking plug.  Larger MH with their many electrical appliances, require 50 amps and it is supplied by 220-240 volt current using a different plug that delivers 120 volts to 2 separate poles on the plug.  If you have a 30 amp to 50 amp ADAPTER PLUG (not a voltage adapter)  for RVs you can use the 240 volt outlet.  Then only 120 volts will be delivered from the 240 volt outlet as only 1 leg of the outlet is used and you are limited to 30 amps.  If you go this route, make sure the adapter plug that you use matches the 240 volt outlet pattern.  You should plug in the adapter into the outlet, then plug in the surge protector into the adapter and let the surge protector determine the line voltage before you plug in your TaB.

(The concern with folks using a 240 v outlet usually involves someone not knowing what your RV needs.  I have heard horror stories of someone somehow wiring a 240 volt supply with a 30 amp outlet and you can guess the outcome.)

klenger

Just MY personal opinion here (I expect many opposing opinions), but if you are hooking up at home and you KNOW that your outlet is wired correctly, I probably wouldn't bother with the surge protector / EMS if you are using a portable model.   Most all the appliances in your house are not connected to a surge protector / EMS either, and you seldom hear of people frying everything in their house (short of a direct lightning strike).  IF you have just recently installed, or had someone else install, an RV outlet, then by all means, use the surge protector/EMS at least once to make sure it is wired correctly.   My EMS is hardwired, so there is no choice for me to make, regardless of what I plug into.

If you are using a 15/20 amp household outlet to power your camper, you could make a dedicated power cord for that purpose by purchasing a 25' 12 AWG extension cord, cut off the female end, and purchase and attach a 30 amp female RV connector in its place.  Now you can leave your 30 amp cord stashed and use the dedicated 20 amp cord at home.  A cord like this is also really handy for connecting to a 2000/2200 watt generator too.

Here's a connector that will work just dandy for that.

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00002NAT8/

JEB

Sharon_is_SAM said:

@northwestinatab,

Let me preface this by saying you should use a surge protector when you plug in anywhere.

1.  Just to be sure, check your breaker box in the house or garage that supplies the outlet that you are going to use.  That is the best way to know to what you are limited in terms of amps - it should be 15 or 20 amps.  As JEB said, your 15 to 30 adapter will carry the amperage from the outlet that you use.

2.  You can use your 15 - 30 amp adapter in a regular household outlet.  That is what we use.

3.  RVs and Motorhomes require either 30 amp or 50 amp supply for full use of their appliances.  As you know, the 30 amp is supplied by 110 - 120 volt current at a campground pedestal using our funny looking plug.  Larger MH with their many electrical appliances, require 50 amps and it is supplied by 220-240 volt current using a different plug that delivers 120 volts to 2 separate poles on the plug.  If you have a 30 amp to 50 amp ADAPTER PLUG (not a voltage adapter)  for RVs you can use the 240 volt outlet.  Then only 120 volts will be delivered from the 240 volt outlet as only 1 leg of the outlet is used and you are limited to 30 amps.  If you go this route, make sure the adapter plug that you use matches the 240 volt outlet pattern.  You should plug in the adapter into the outlet, then plug in the surge protector into the adapter and let the surge protector determine the line voltage before you plug in your TaB.

(The concern with folks using a 240 v outlet usually involves someone not knowing what your RV needs.  I have heard horror stories of someone somehow wiring a 240 volt supply with a 30 amp outlet and you can guess the outcome.)

northwestinatab's application is residential, and a dryer outlet is the most likely candidate.  If so, then he could just use his existing 30A cordset and this adapter, available at Home Depot.  Would this work?

ScottG

120/240V 30A dryer receptacles (below) are configured differently than the twist-lock connector shown above. That adapter is most likely for plugging an RV cord into a generator (which usually features a twist-lock receptacle).

I don't know if there is an adapter to go from a dryer plug to an RV plug, but it wouldn't surprise me. In a pinch you could certainly make a customized pigtail adapter out of individual components.

However, electrically speaking the concept is the same regardless of the plug configuration.

Sharon_is_SAM

Some folks actually have 240 v lines installed for their motorhomes, so I did not assume that it was for a dryer since someone else with a trailer had previously hooked up.  But, whatever adapter will fit between the TaB cord and the outlet, as long as it supports the current and limits that TaB to one leg of the 240 v outlet should be fine.  And, sorry, I don't agree that you should abstain from a surge protector - even at your home.  I simply can't think of any reason to not use one.

kaylevine1

when I tried to run the air conditioner off the 15 amp regular socket in my garage it would kick in n run awhile but then would get too hot n trip the circuit breaker-I didn't feel it was safe so had a regular 30 amp rv outlet put in at the back of my driveway on the side of the house-I plug my surge protector into that then to my rv power cord-of course it needs to be checked frequently-we have so many storms and power surges it sometimes goes off-so I have learned-check it every day to make sure it is working???