Moisture in Amber Running/Marker LED light

DesertDweller

Hello all,
After washing my 2019 T@B 320 I noticed water drops inside the driver side amber LED running light.  I was careful not to spray the light directly.  All the other running lights were dry.  I managed to carefully pry off the silver-colored plastic trim piece and unscrewed the two screws holding the light fixture to the T@B body, but the fixture stayed fixed.  I assume it was because of the caulking.  Before I start cutting the caulking, I was wondering if anyone else has removed these LED running lights.  I am particularly interested in whether, once removed from the T@B, the amber lens can be easily separated from the rest of the fixture so I can dry it, reassemble it, and then re-caulk.  Or, is the lens permanently attached to the rest of the fixture?  I did do a search on this forum and found only a thread about replacing the rear tail lights.  

Cbusguy

why spray carefully around it?   It should be water proof.......Running road speed in the rain would be a proper equivalent.   I doubt you could separate the lense with out damaging it.    I would just make a warranty claim for a new one.

db_cooper

Had the same issue when we bought our used T@b.  Got a warranty covered lamp, but found when I removed it, the wires were pulled tight, so not much to work with.  Decided to live with it for now, and keep the new lamp in case one goes out completely. It eventually dried out and hasn't been an issue.

If I ever have the fridge out, I'll splice in some more wire.  Wish they'd left a little more wire during construction, brake lights were same.

DesertDweller

Thanks both for sharing your thoughts.  I just had my T@B in for work on the Alde heater (fan failure message -- new fan installed), so I am not keen on bringing it back again for what is still a working light.  I have the extended warranty, so I guess I will wait until any electrical problem surfaces.  

falcon1970

I would think the lens (the amber cover) can be removed although I haven't explored that yet.  Somehow you would have to be able to eventually replace the bulb or LED panel.  There are likely small (very) tabs holding it all in.  Using a small screwdriver , push the tabs in and gently pry the lens off and wipe it out.  I suspect the lens wasn't sealed to the body of the lamp as well as it should have been.  That is a constant problem with running lights on cars also.  You can buy a "liquid" gasket at an auto parts store when you put the lens back on.  I wouldn't use silicone seal--you'll never get it off again.

Cbusguy

@falcon1970  most of the led marker lights are run to failure,  I have never seen one with a detachable lense.     They are only $5-$10 bucks at Tractor supply,  but I would get it from nucamp so it is the same make, model and the holes line up.

N7SHG_Ham

Agree with @Cbusguy usually replace unit. I have multiple LED lights on my work truck and cargo trailer, some have had moisture inside for a long while and still going. If they quit I replace. Unfortunately all these throwaway plastic lights seem to not be very UV resistant nor sealed well, I suspect all made by low bidder off shore somplace.

DesertDweller

Thanks all.

Cbusguy

@N7SHG_Ham  I have these on a cargo trailer the troop owns and agree they are very cheap and not meant to last more than a couple of years exposed to the elements.  the good news they are cheap the bad news is you have to replace them.

DesertDweller

Just an update on this.  It has been a while now since the T@B was exposed to rain or water from washing and the moisture is still present in the front driver's side yellow LED marker lamp.  And, being in the Arizona desert, I am surprised it has not dried out by now.  It is the only LED light showing signs of moisture and the only LED light near the city water connection and FW tank gravity fill intake.  So, I am beginning to wonder if the LED light is somehow getting moisture from the water lines or FW tank.  Not being the handy type, however, I will live with it for now and keep an eye out for if and when the LED light stops working.  Thanks for your help everyone. 

Sharon_is_SAM

There have been a few reports of city water inlet leaks that you may be able to see via the over-the-toilet hatch, by using a camera and a selfie stick as @BrianZ did.  That is a good thought that your leak into the LED may not be externally caused.

DesertDweller

@Sharon_is_SAM Thanks for this.  I have been following the leaks threads with some concern.  If the folk who are far handier than me are having difficulties with tightening fittings, I am doomed from the start.  More to your point, though, I have not used city water since T@BAzona and only used the FW tank for boondocking.  But, the moisture has to be coming from somewhere.  Even though I drain the FW tank and Alde heater after each trip (I don't have to winterize where I live), there may be enough residual moisture to cause the water droplets in the LED light.  I probably will get the selfie stick (even though I swore I would never own one!) and take some images inside inside the over-the-toilet hatch just to ensure there are at least no visible leaks.  

BrianZ

Hey, @DesertDweller, I hope you don't have a leaky fresh water valve fitting like I had, but it would be worth checking it or getting it checked.  If your water pump ever runs longer than expected or doesn't stop or stops & comes back on with opening a faucet, then suspect a leak somewhere in the pressurized parts of the plumbing (i.e., not the fresh water fill tube). 

A phone or camera on a selfie stick could be handy, but primarily if you could view it remotely using an app on a second phone to see how you're positioning it for getting the shot you need.  In a Jan 2018 posting I wrote the following relating to a using pair of phones as a possible backup camera..

"For Android users wanting to try pairing two cell phones as backup camera & monitor, I found two apps ("Zapya" & "Cam Wimote") that can use "WiFi Direct" to setup a peer-to-peer connection between phones without the need for connecting to any WiFi network like "IP Cameras" use.  These apps let you designate one phone as the remote & the other as the camera, so you can view the camera live on the other phone.  I tried them both on my Samsung Galaxy Note 4 & Note8 & they worked (with some pros & cons)."

Not sure if this helps, but worth a try if you're an android user & have a second phone available.

It seems plausible to me that the running light could get wet if water was pooling in the bottom of that compartment.  Seems like the wiring for that would be very close to the floor level.  I never got a clear view down in that corner, because it was hard to get good lighting down there, but you should be able to see water somewhere if there's a leak.  Mine dripped out under the trailer within a few minutes of turning on the pump.
Good luck.

BrianZ

@DesertDweller, I went back in with my camera today to try & get a better view for you of where the wiring goes through the wall to that light..

The green/yellow wires appear to pass through a hole punched in the wall about 4 to 6 inches above the floor.  I would assume this would be too high up for any water on the floor to exit there, and I would doubt that water leaking from the city water port would find its way out through this hole without leaking through the floor too where you would see it.

Because that hole appears to be fairly large, I'm wondering if there may be another mechanism at play.  Here's another idea..  Perhaps warm humid air inside the trailer finds it's way through this hole and into the light fixture, then it meets the cold inside surface of light's lens which has been cooled by cold outside air.  The humid air then condenses on the inside of the lens & accumulates there... I'm wondering if there is any tiny drain hole at the bottom of the lens and if not, whether maybe there should be.  I'm also wondering if the hole in the wall had been sealed, whether it could have prevented this.

BrianZ

PS:  I'm wondering what your light with water inside looks like - how much water and is it pooled at the bottom or small drops all over the inside?

N7SHG_Ham

Doesn't look like much slack in those wires if you had to replace the light, you somehow would need to cut the old pigtails and recrimp the new ones, too bad they didn't think of maintenance!

DesertDweller

@BrianZ Thanks much for the "inside" info. Given the placement it does seem unlikely that water is getting into the light from the plumbing. The humidity suggestion makes sense except it is fairly dry here in the desert. I will try to grab a picture of the light in question with a close up of the water drops.  My memory is that the drops in the light were all over and not pooled at the bottom. I will also check to see if the other lights have a hole in the lens bottom .

BrianZ

If replaced, I would consider keeping some of the length of yellow wires if needed for more slack, though you probably wouldn't want the old crimped connectors laying on the floor in case of a leak.
Here's another view where it looks like the white ground wire goes under the corner of the black tank, while the green pos wire goes over it.  I don't know if it's just the camera angle, but the back end of the tank appears as if it's angled upwards on the underside so that it hangs over the bottom of the front wall that curves down under it.  No wonder I couldn't get my 1-inch wide camera low enough to see the floor - at first I thought the black top of the tank was the floor.  I had to move all the way into the corner to see the floor & then use a more powerful worklight.

4ncar

I wish the Amish would wire these trailers as well as they do with the wood work!!