Water leak!

Photomom

ScottG said:

@Photomom, had you been running the pump the first time you noticed the leak?

No. The first time we had the leak we had the hose attached to the city port to flush the lines and to check for leaks. We did not run the pump.

At some point during this process we flushed the toilet  to make sure it worked and to flush remaining pink stuff out of the bowl. It is POSSIBLE but not certain that the initial leak started after this.

Photomom

pamela said:

Could the check valve on your city water intake be faulty?  Generally, when your pump is on, your system is pressurized the check valve should prevent water from escaping out of this connection.  However, when your pump is on, it leaks.  This is not apparent when you are connected to city water.  Likely this is because the pressure on both sides of the valve is generally equal. It is possible that the o-ring inside the check valve has become cracked or unseated.   Have you considered investigsting the city water input check valve?  Just a thought and, practically, I am not sure how difficult this is to access for you.

That is an interesting theory. The first time we noticed a leak it ran out onto the floor from under the shower and leaked under the trailer from under the shower area. I’ve didn’t pay sufficient attention I guess, but the leak MIGHT have started after we flushed the toilet a few times.

The second leak incident started after we had had the hose attached to the city port for several minutes without leaking. We were trying to eliminate the toilet as the source of the problem so we did not flush it.  Then we disconnected the hose, put water and the first stage of the 2 part sanitizing product in the fresh water tank, and started running the pump to push it through the system. We did NOT see water coming from under the shower this time and we saw a leak from a different area, under the space behind the toilet. That’s the point at which I ran inside and felt water dripping from the city water connection.

Hmm, kinda sounds like two issues. Where is the check valve you mention?

Photomom

Here’s a pic someone took at the factory before the front skin went on. Is the check valve visible in this? What does it look like?

pamela

I believe that the check valve is right behind your city water hook up.  Likely it is integrated into the port that you connect your hose to.

TerryV6

Curiouser and curiouser....  Stay tuned for the next episode of, “As the T@b leaks”.  

In in all seriousness...  I hope you find the problem soon.  There are many brilliant and not so brilliant (me) minds at work on this....

“some guy...🙄”. -  that could be a new user name @4ncar.    Mine is from the very first forum I joined back in ‘82...  I think it was, how to use a computer...

Photomom

TerryV6 said:

Curiouser and curiouser....  Stay tuned for the next episode of, “As the T@b leaks”.  

In in all seriousness...  I hope you find the problem soon.  There are many brilliant and not so brilliant (me) minds at work on this....

“some guy...🙄”. -  that could be a new user name @4ncar.    Mine is from the very first forum I joined back in ‘82...  I think it was, how to use a computer...

I actually enjoy a challenge and I like figuring things out so this is interesting from one viewpoint. But we are setting out for a 12 day trip on Saturday and it won’t be much fun dry camping all that time. Husband wanted to cancel, NO WAY. I told him I’d make it work, somehow.

4ncar did confess to being “some guy.”

BrianZ

Here ya go, @Photomom..

& you can match this up with the photo you posted.  Image is distorted from this extreme wide angle camera, but your pic has the normal perspective with proper proportions.
I could only reach far enough to get the tip of my middle finger on top of the black knurled knob, which was just enough to be able to feel it was loose enough to turn with a light touch.  Then I tightened it with vice grips to grab it for extending my reach.  I'm 5'-8-1/2" tall.  Longer arms can do it.  Looks like you can see my hand & wrist behind the pump connection where I was holding a selfie stick to manipulate the camera.
PS: Tightening would be clockwise as viewed here.

Photomom

BrianZ said:

Here ya go, @Photomom..

& you can match this up with the photo you posted.  Image is distorted from this extreme wide angle camera, but your pic has proper proportions.
I could only reach far enough to get the tip of my middle finger on top of the black knurled knob, which was just enough to be able to feel it was loose enough to turn with a light touch.  Then I tightened it with vice grips to grab it for extending my reach.  I'm 5'-8-1/2" tall.  Longer arms can do it.

Thank you. I was able to get my entire hand around that black thing at the city water intake. My entire arm was inside.

Would I unscrew that  from the inside, down in the space behind the toilet, to check and replace the o-ring or check valve?

BrianZ

I will defer to others on your last question, @Photomom, as I don't have any experience with disconnecting it.  My guess is that loosening that black screw-on collar would be the first step in disconnecting the pipe, then removal of the valve assembly from outside?
Imagining it's like how the outside shower hose connects to the handheld shower head.  I'm curious whether there is an O-ring or a washer inside.

PS:  If I were you, I'd just hand-tighten and be done with it! (hopefully)

ScottG

A little less Kirk and a little more Spock may be called for here...  ;-)

If the problem was with the check valve itself, I would expect water to be leaking from the outside of the city water port. In fact, another member recently reported this exact problem.

Of course, that doesn't mean the threaded connector between the PEX and the check valve/city water port isn't loose or leaking. That turned out to be the problem BrianZ reported.

The other two likely culprits (for the same reason) are the threaded connectors where the pump line connect to the PEX. These are clearly visible in the factory photo you (@Photomom) posted above. This year, I even noticed a small drip in that location on the outlet side. I've snugged it up but will need to monitor it closely.

Less likely would be a crack in one of the PEX fittings. Even less likely would be a crack in the PEX itself. That pretty much covers all the options.

In my not-so-humble-opinion, lack of access to this area is perhaps the biggest design flaw inherent on the 320--particularly given that there are non-permanent connections in there that need to be inspected and tightened periodically. These recent discussions have made me consider a preemptive installation of an access panel behind the toilet.

Sharon_is_SAM

Maybe just tightening it first to see if that eliminates the leak?

JanandDave

Though I'll admit to having a memory which is less than perfect these days, I do recall reading a post which said the check valve is a part of the water pump. It would have to be on the output side of the pump (left side in three pictures ago) which would keep the city water connection from filling the FW tank. I suppose there could be one on the city water connection to prevent the pump from just sending the water back outside.

BrianZ

TIP:
To reach the city water port for hand tightening, especially for all the short statured right handers out there, do this:

1.  Don't use your right arm!
2. Put your head down in the right corner behind the toilet.
3.  Reach your LEFT ARM down into the left corner behind (forward of) the pump hose.
4.  On the side wall you'll first feel the very small air vent tube & large fresh water tube.  Reaching behind (forward of) & farther below those is the 1-inch size plastic collar of the city water port.  Hand tighten.

I was able to reach far enough to firmly grasp it with thumb & two fingers to hand tighten a bit more.  Previously, using my right arm with head in left corner, I could barely touch the top of it with my middle finger.  I am 5'-8" tall.

Sharon_is_SAM

@JanandDave, you are correct that there is a check valve built into the output side of the water pump - at least we voted on that probability:)  There is a check valve on the city water connection built into the port.  See Brians's pictures above.

4ncar

 I’m not that new...😒

Sharon_is_SAM

@4ncar, @TerryV6 was referring to Photomom’s reference to “some guy”.  He said the term “some guy” can be used as a new ID user name.  Not that you are “new”.  Would you rather be an old user name?  😉

TerryV6

Sorry @4ncar,  just an attempt at humor.  

jgram2

No, not at all new @4ncar-you’re one of the ooolllddd some guys.🙂

Photomom

BrianZ said:

TIP:
To reach the city water port for hand tightening, especially for all the short statured right handers out there, do this:

1.  Don't use your right arm!
2. Put your head down in the right corner behind the toilet.
3.  Reach your LEFT ARM down into the left corner behind the pump hose.
4.  On the side wall you'll first feel the very small air vent tube & large fresh water tube.  Reaching behind & farther below those is the 1-inch size plastic collar of the city water port.  Hand tighten.

I was able to reach far enough to firmly grasp it with thumb & two fingers to hand tighten a bit more.  Previously, using my right arm with head in left corner, I could barely touch the top of it with my middle finger.  I am 5'-8" tall.

Now you tell me! I woke up with bruises on my right arm from where I jammed it down in there. I guess I’ll collect a few matching ones on the left. :-(

BrianZ

Sorry, @Photomom, but I wrote that as soon as I found out.  I was cursing myself too, but because I'm right-handed, it just never dawned on me to try my left until yesterday when I started wondering "how are people reaching this?" and gave it a try.  I was surprised it made such a difference - not huge in distance, but huge in results.

PS:  I had also gone back into the trailer to see where I might be able to cut a new access hatch for reaching that lower connection & needed to feel the inside of the wall for obstructions.  In the process I ended up trying my left hand.  The new hatch idea is on hold for now, since I learned how to reach that connection.

jkjenn

@Photomom were you able to resolve your issue?

4ncar

I must I must have misread the post...”old weary eyes “ at 10:00p ...

Pika1

@BrianZ, It works! It works! Used your tip with the left arm and head in the right side toilet corner. DW held access door up while I reached in and found the black knurl nob. It was finger loose but thumb and a few digits provided enough grip for a very firm finger tightness. Thanks for the tip and a few less bruises/scrapes.

Sharon_is_SAM

Ok, we need to name this next to impossible maneuver after BrianZ!  Any ideas?  

Verna

“Must learn to be a Southpaw”. Chapter Two of “How to fix a water leak” in the T@B 320 unofficial owners manual

Sharon_is_SAM

How about the Z-Flex - sounds like a muscle relaxant!

jkjenn

Southpaw stretch!

Photomom

jkjenn said:

@Photomom were you able to resolve your issue?

Sorry - have been caught up in other things - getting food and clothes ready, business matters - and yesterday I discovered that the fridge we spent $450 to get working on propane was sitting at 54F on propane. Troubleshooting that now, don’t know yet if it will work on 120v. Leaving for 2 week trip tomorrow, getting fairly frustrated...

It did occur to me that I could troubleshoot the plumbing with tinted water - flush blue water down the toilet, look to see what color leaks out...will need to try that when we get back.

Photomom

Fridge cools on 120v. Checking propane again. Burner definitely burns.

I did discover that the auxiliary fan that NuCamp supplied has stopped working. The switch is supplying 12v to it so I guess we have another task when we get home. Oh and we also cracked the plastic vent getting it off...not having a good week.

VictoriaP

Photomom said:

Fridge cools on 120v. Checking propane again. Burner definitely burns.

I did discover that the auxiliary fan that NuCamp supplied has stopped working. The switch is supplying 12v to it so I guess we have another task when we get home. Oh and we also cracked the plastic vent getting it off...not having a good week.

Ugh. So sorry to hear about all this. Hate it when problems come in batches, hope you can still enjoy your trip!