New Air conditioning system for 2020 - Elwell Air-8

TNOutback

That’s good to hear that they seem to be moving quickly on this.  I am looking forward to this being resolved since my unit is being built in July!

BigShowSkipper

I’m dropping my 400 unit off Friday for minor warranty work and a long yet fix for the A/C. I’ll let you all know what the solution looks like once I get it back. 

Cbusguy

hopefully they will ship the warranty fix to those of us without a dealer we trust near by.

TNOutback

Given the power ratings for this new A/C, do you think you could run a 400’s A/C on a 2000W generator?  (Knowing there will be other loads you can’t shut off, like battery charger.)

klenger

TNOutback said:

Given the power ratings for this new A/C, do you think you could run a 400’s A/C on a 2000W generator?  (Knowing there will be other loads you can’t shut off, like battery charger.)

A properly wired inverter will not power the battery charger or any high power loads that you don't want to run on battery power.  I have a small 150 inverter that powers every outlet in my 320, but none of the permanent AC appliances.  

Bigbarnacle

Greetings All. Narrowed my search for a new trailer to the T@B 400. Gave a 2019 a good once over and decided to wait for a 2020, knowing the changes nuCamp was making. Dealer sent a photo of new location of the AC system, and the installation raised some red flags. Besides the need for a baffle between the condenser intake and discharge on the bottom of the trailer to prevent short cycling, there is also a problem with the supply lines and return inside the trailer. The three corrugated supply lines make a tight 90 turn exiting the unit, which reduces air flow, and their routing appears to be blocking 2/3 of the units return opening. The slots cut in the finished panel for return air create another restriction. What would happen is return air would take the path of least resistance and pull  from storage areas under bed before the living space. All this adds up to a reduction in efficiency and strain on the system. Usually energy ratings are determined under optimum conditions, with no ductwork or restrictions. Always a challange to fit a system like this in a tight space.

Bigbarnacle

If you look under Introduction New Owner, AIB posted a good photo.

dCliffhanger

Just an observation, I just took delivery of my 2020 T@B S.  I was able to successfully run the 8000btu ac from a 15 amp extension cord.  Ambient temp was about 85. It cooled the unit down nicely and without excessive noise.

BigShowSkipper

Bigbarnacle,

Here is my assessment of the 2020 A/C performance thus far in 105 degree temps. I limited the short cycling by facing the hot exhaust louvre away from the intake under the trailer. The trailer is currently at the dealer for a permanent fix to my temporary solution. 

The A/C an for 48 hours straight with highest ambient temp of 105 for two days. With full sun exposure on the trailer the unit stays about 15 degrees below outside temp. With full shade the unit stays about 20 degrees cooler. 

I will run more tests once it returns from the dealer and post pics of the final fix for short cycling. 

To your point, the installed duct lines seem to have some extra bends which could reduce efficiency. I considered removing the vends by shortening the lengths and re attaching. 

ChrisFix

@BigShowSkipper Are you saying the air conditioner could only maintain 90 degrees inside the trailer on those 105 degree days? That's pretty weak performance and I think far less cooling than the prior CoolCat provided (based on various user reports of its performance). Sure hope nuCamp figures out a real fix for this soon.

BigShowSkipper

Those were my first performance results. I was happy to get it running constantly after the original issues with short cycling so I was thrilled to trend in the positive direction. 

Ill be be looking for other efficiencies once I get it back. 

Prior owners out here in Az complained about temps in the sleeping area with the old system per my dealer. 

TNOutback

klenger said:

TNOutback said:

Given the power ratings for this new A/C, do you think you could run a 400’s A/C on a 2000W generator?  (Knowing there will be other loads you can’t shut off, like battery charger.)

A properly wired inverter will not power the battery charger or any high power loads that you don't want to run on battery power.  I have a small 150 inverter that powers every outlet in my 320, but none of the permanent AC appliances.  

I was referring to the converter, not an inverter.  Is there a way to keep the converter from charging the battery bank if you are plugged up to A/C power?  That is, is there a way to isolate other significant loads so that the A/C is the only appliance running on the generator?

Bigbarnacle

BigShowSkipper,
Reorienting the grills and and reducing tight bends in the flex are steps in the right direction. Are the round supply air grills adjustable (able to be dampered down) and is there a supply outlet in the bed area?

A combination of small tweaks might give better results.

 This is what I would do:
- Look for an appropriate sized two way (discharges left and right) grill in aluminum or stainless, for the discharge on bottom.
- Install a baffle that is as deep as the frame structure and extends at least 12"          past either side of grill.
- Seal off any penetrations into outside storage on left and utility area on right
- See if supply flex can be shifted so they don't block the return as much.

 What nuCamp should consider doing:
- See if AC unit could be shifted aft more to free up space at supply and Return end.
- Consider widening the slots on the finished panel. It looks like that system requires about 48 cu/in of opening for return. Thin slots may meet that criteria, but may not meet required CFM because of design.
- The supply outlets should be the type allowing dampering down, to be able to ballance the system. Important when you have a comlination of very short and relatively  long runs.
- Don't know if there is, but there should be a supply in the sleeping area and a functioning window in the "headboard wall."
The sleeping area is dead space as far as air flow is concerned, and due to weather, may not always want to open roof window. Ill venture to guess, there is a lot more condensation that forms in that sleeping area than anyone realizes, just not seeing it because it's being absorbed by the fabric panel.
More moisture = more humidity = less comfort.

I would not assume that even a good dealer, with the best intention, would be knowledgeable about air-flow.

Sharon_is_SAM

@TNOutback, just turn the battery switch off - that isolates the battery.

TNOutback

TNOutback said:

klenger said:

TNOutback said:

Given the power ratings for this new A/C, do you think you could run a 400’s A/C on a 2000W generator?  (Knowing there will be other loads you can’t shut off, like battery charger.)

A properly wired inverter will not power the battery charger or any high power loads that you don't want to run on battery power.  I have a small 150 inverter that powers every outlet in my 320, but none of the permanent AC appliances.  

I was referring to the converter, not an inverter.  Is there a way to keep the converter from charging the battery bank if you are plugged up to A/C power?  That is, is there a way to isolate other significant loads so that the A/C is the only appliance running on the generator?

Sharon_is_SAM said:

@TNOutback, just turn the battery switch off - that isolates the battery.

Re-asking my question:  given the power ratings of the new air conditioner, it would appear that a 2000W peak generator could handle the unit, do you agree?  The initial surge would be close to its limit, but the running wattage would be about 60% load for the typical 2000W generator.

Jilliblueyes

@BigShowSkipper @Arizonayeti

Same issues with 2020 400 BDL air conditioner.  Currently in AZ. A/C same error message E07. Have spent hours trying to find information online.....nothing.......not pleased.  This is our first trip with our camper, we also love it apart from this.

BigShowSkipper

Jilliblueyes. 

As as you have probably discovered on this thread, the primary issue is the baffles on the underside of the trailer. The hot exhaust air blows directly into the cool intake air. 

Toms camperland has mine now and will outfit with a solution. Annoying for certain but a fix is on the way. I’ll send pics of my fixes next week. 

Cbusguy

@Jilliblueyes in a nutshell you need to seperate the intake air flow and the exhaust air flow better.   If you are away from home a simple temporary fix may be to get a large chunk of cardboard or maybe a lid from a tote and duct tape it between the two vents on the bottom of the trailer.   

@TNOutback  a 2k continuous output generator would run it.....  When purchasing be careful of the ratings as many 2k generators are Surge ratings not continuous.   My entire trailer takes about 80 amps at 12 volts dc to run  the AC and that works out to about 960 watts that includes the inverter inefficiencies and various other phantom drains.    I tried to watch the AC compressor start surge but my amp meter is too slow.   

_JB_

Forgive me if this has already been shared elsewhere, but I emailed Nucamp customer service today to get their advice on what I should do about our 2020 400 AC in anticipation of the cycling problems related to the exhaust/intake placement and received the following reply (very quickly, I might add): 

"We recently discovered that the new AIR8 AC in the 2020 units was not cooling the unit down properly.  While we acted swiftly upon discovery, we still had a small number of units head out the door and out to dealer lots.  There is a quick and easy solution for this issue…and it is readily available.  We recently sent out a service bulletin to our dealers, so they are fully aware and capable to assist you.  When you speak to your dealer, they will get the venting kit and schedule an install.  The job itself takes less than 20 minutes.

 

If you have any questions or you feel that going back to the dealership is not a viable option, please reach out to warranty@nucamprv.com for further/additional assistance.  We work with any RV Repair facility and even automotive specialists and handymen.

 

We apologize for any inconvenience, but want to ensure you are enjoying your new trailer as much as possible."

Hope this helps a bit. I will be forwarding this to my dealer to get a fix scheduled. 

Mariner459

We believe we led the original inquiry and would like to see pics of the official install solution if someone would please post.

b407driver

Right. Kinda hard to know if your unit needs it without knowing what the fix is. [By the way, our finned vent covers are metal, not plastic like originally mentioned by the poster who had his deform with heat.]

Cbusguy

The fix is removing the current grills and replacing them with hardware cloth........     not sure how I feel about that.

mreric

i ma not sure this is the right way to go about the fix.  i am happy that the A/C is on the floor on 2020   models.    i wonder how the dust will clog the ac and cause issue anyways. 

TNOutback

Cbusguy said:

The fix is removing the current grills and replacing them with hardware cloth........     not sure how I feel about that.

mreric said:

i ma not sure this is the right way to go about the fix.  i am happy that the A/C is on the floor on 2020   models.    i wonder how the dust will clog the ac and cause issue anyways. 

Agree. I’m already thinking this deserves further modification. I can’t help but think these openings will catch a lot of dust, especially traveling down dirt and gravel roads, not only from the tow vehicle’s wheels, but the camper wheels as well.  I think some kind of travel cover is warranted.

b407driver

I just looked up 'hardware cloth', and I now wonder how that is a fix? My two sets of louvers are pointing different directions, and when the A/C is running the hot air does not seem to be getting sucked into the intake side.

Now the dust issue, on the other hand... there is dust inside my A/C compartment, and I haven't looked in the manual, but I don't know that there is any sort of intake filter on the Elwell-8 to clean/inspect?

falcon1970

Oh, dear me.  Seems like the law of unintended consequences has struck again.  Seems like a tad more field testing was necessary before deployment.

BigShowSkipper

My dealer here in AZ has completed their solution to the recycle issue. It’s too dang hot today for me to take pics. 

Tomorrow i I will take pics of their mod which is different than the NuCamp solution. I will also produce field tests showing the performance in 110 degree weather with full sun exposure. 

Early performance is is very promising as the AC has been running continuously for 24 hours. I’ll start tomorrow with interior temp of 75 degrees and see how it goes. I’ll try to obtain hourly comparisons for this post. 

I may need to start a Go Fund me account to cover my electrical bill. 

BigShowSkipper

As promised here are my pics and results:



Full sun
8 am.    94 outside.    75 inside
9 am.    96.                 76
10 am    100.              76
11 am    102.              80
noon.     105.              83
1 pm.     105.              84
2 pm.     105.              86
3 pm      110.              90
partial shade
4 pm.      110.             89
5 pm.      109.             86
full shade
6 pm.       109.            84
7 pm.       104.            80
8 pm        101             77
9 pm        101.            75

Here is my data, essentially 20 degree cooling in full AZ sun. 25 degree cooling in shade. 

Enjoy the info. I am satisfied with the fix and performance but feel free to draw your own conclusions. 

Cbusguy

The issue is that isn't the fix the factory is offering.

Crawled under my 320 with ac running and think I will take a pass on the factory fix.  On the 320 the intake and out let are separated by the frame rail....zero evidence of the louvers collapsing or air recirculation.

  I know I can come up with something better, more splash, bug and dust resistant......and certainly will keep the air from recirculating.  Not so sure the factory fix will do that.

Arizonayeti

@BigShowSkipper Thanks for the update and data on performance.  I'm dropping off my 400 at Tom's this weekend for their fix, which appears to be better then the factory solution.