Toilet intake hose broken

Fox

Hi, I know very little about plumbing and less about my 2019 T@B!!!!!  I bought it late last summer and was just dewinterizing today.  The intake water line for fresh water to the back of the toilet came out.  The end where it screws in is fine.  The end that came out has no threads, so was it glued in?  It’s just smooth black plastic.  It pushes it just fine, just won’t stay there.  I’m not sure how to go about fixing this so it will stay in and not leak.  

Sharon_is_SAM

Try this thread:

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/5145/water-valve-replacement-for-toilet

Fox

Thanks for the link but that’s not at all what I have in the back of my toilet.  It’s a hose with one end threaded and that’s fine.  The other end is just a plain black plastic hose which fit into another small plastic pipe.   Nothing else.  NO fastener, no threads, just a plastic tube inserted into a slightly larger plastic tube.  Bust now it just falls out.  

VictoriaP

It would probably be helpful to post your actual trailer model and a photo of the problem. This is the type of issue where a picture really is worth a thousand words.

Additionally, a 2019 is still under warranty unless you bought it used. If you aren’t familiar with plumbing, you may want to involve your dealer.

4ncar

@Fox a picture would help, but it does sound like the feed to the toilet, and the black fitting is from the flush valve assembly. It is not a serviceable fix, but a replacement of the entire flush valve assembly, as illustrated in the link. It happened to me earlier this spring. It does require removal of the toilet, which is easy, and the part is inexpensive.

Fox

Thanks for all the comments so far,  I took a picture of the hose.  The black end just fell out of the back of the toilet.  I can’t see a thing back there so only have a pic of the hose.    It is a Thetford toilet.  So with the pic does it look like I need a new flush assembly?  Would the repair of this be a warranty issue?  4ncar you mentioned that removal of the toilet was easy?!?!?!?  I can’t even begin to imagine how you’d take the toilet out😕

Pictures edited for sizing- Sharon

4ncar

@Fox: yup...that’s it. This piece is a sacrificial fitting. More then likely, there was water remaining in the valve and it froze over the winter, and this is the piece that is sacrificed, at least this is my determination based on my own experience.  There is no way to perform the repair with out removing the toilet.  There are 2 nuts/bolts on the base of the toilet(covered with beauty caps). Remove the 2 nuts, pull straight up and off the toilet comes.  Shove a rag in the hole to spare your nose of the sewer gases. You can then access the rear of the toilet where the flush valve assembly is.  Instructions are included with the new assembly, along with a new flange seal.

VictoriaP

To answer the warranty question, based on 4ncar’s observations, it would depend on whether the dealer performed the winterization or you did. If the dealer did it (or if it was delivered from the factory winterized and this is the first time water has been put through it), then yes, I would expect it to be covered. If not, the dealer can certainly still perform the repair. I can handle small repairs, but some stuff I do leave to the professionals. 

@4ncar How is this prevented for the next time? How to you make sure there’s no water in the valve?

4ncar

VictoriaP said:

@4ncar How is this prevented for the next time? How to you make sure there’s no water in the valve?

I use the “blow air” method.  This coming winter, I plan to be mor diligent in respect to 5he toilet line, but I also plan on disconnecting the white hose and let it drip dry as well.  I added this ball valve when I performed the repair. This will allow me to use the rest of the water system in the event that the flush valve fails again, while the trailer is in use.

Fergie

If you read my story at the end of Sharon_is_SAM's link at the first comment on your original post, you will note that the failure "crack" that frozen water creates is exactly where your unit broke off. Read my entire post and look at the pictures and you will get my rational for not using the air "blow out" method again! 

If your has T@B wintered over while you owned it, the dealer certainly would not accept responsibility for the failure. Regardless the toilet will have to be pulled to replace the valve.

Here again is the link: https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/5145/water-valve-replacement-for-toilet

Good Luck!

Fergie

Sharon_is_SAM

Thoroughly blowing out the water from the flush valve until essentially dry, you should not have a problem.  But, you can’t rush the process.  We use an under powered 12v air compressor and we pressurize the system multiple times and hold the flush valve open and it is very dry when we finish.  Your only other choice is to use antifreeze throughout the plumbing and then flush the system thoroughly in the spring.

DougH

I guess one would lose the sacrificial purpose of this fitting that came out, but what's wrong with cleaning up the thing in the picture, the thing it goes into, and just putting some watertight JB Weld or similar bonding goop on that dark piece and putting it back in place? 

4ncar

DougH said:

I guess one would lose the sacrificial purpose of this fitting that came out, but what's wrong with cleaning up the thing in the picture, the thing it goes into, and just putting some watertight JB Weld or similar bonding goop on that dark piece and putting it back in place? 

That might work in a pinch...

BrianZ

Or PVC cement if it's made of PVC?  Could probably test a small area first to see if it dissolves it.  Is the broken part at the thicker looking black piece of wider diameter or on the longer narrower part of the tube?
PS:  I guess the lesson here is to do whatever you can to avoid moving or putting any stress on that piece of hose.  Going to add a valve with right angle to ours to get the hose aimed behind the toilet, so anything stored next to the toilet won't be pushing against the hose.

Fergie

I can see making a temporary repair (i.e. cement or glue) if you are stuck in the outback with no immediate access to an RV shop or parts store. However, unless you have skinnier arms, hands and are more double jointed than I am, you are going to have to remove the toilet to even make that temporary repair. I always try to do it right the first time so if I'm going to have to pull a toilet (be it in an RV or home} and all that it entails, I might as well replace the parts that are subject to wear or failure, especially if they are readily available and not that expensive. That way I have the security to know I won't have more problems down the road when I least need it.

Fergie

BrianZ

@Fox,  I removed our toilet today & got this photo of the valve for comparison to your broken part, so here is how it normally looks..

It appears that your black fitting broke at the base, presumably leaving the outer black sleeve still attached.  Since there is an inner black sleeve in your photo, it would appear that the white plastic fits between the two sleeves.  So I'm wondering if this is a slip joint fitting, otherwise I don't understand the purpose of the inner sleeve, especially if it traps water that could freeze.  I guess you still have a ring of black plastic left on that fitting, and if so, I'm wondering if you can unscrew it or if it's glued.  I didn't want to mess with mine.

PS:
I also added the water supply shutoff valve & new water hose.. Had to add a couple washers inside to stop leakage & get the right connection angle for the hose when tight.

From Lowes..
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Keeney-Brass-1-2-in-Fip-x-3-8-in-Compression-Quarter-Turn-Angle-Valve/3191085

BrianZ

@4ncar, interesting idea about disconnecting the toilet hose for the winter.  This might help drain the hose, but not sure if it would do anything for water that might be trapped between the inner black tube & white plastic tube fitting.  Frankly, I'm surprised that even thoroughly blowing out the line with plenty of high pressure air would remove every bit of water from this water trap design.  But, we've winterized twice this way with cold single digit winter temps, and no problems so far.

However, I'm thinking that if one were to raise the end of the hose up as high as possible (carefully, to avoid tension on its connection to the valve) & pour antifreeze slowly to fill the hose, then open the toilet valve to let it drain into the bowl, that could leave enough antifreeze in the valve for winter protection.  Doing this after blowing out could provide extra insurance.  Pouring into a small 3/8" fitting with small opening in its built-in washer would be a challenge, unless you used a syringe to inject it or connect a larger fitting.
I already disconnect & fill our water pump with antifreeze for the winter, so I may do the same for the toilet.

4ncar

@BrianZ I seem to fall victim to all of the smallest of winterizing issues. Winter 1 was the out side shower fixture and winter 2, the flush valve. Both are capable of keeping the smallest amounts of water, but even that small amount will expand when frozen and crack what ever it’s surrounded by. 

My thought in disconnecting the hose hose was to allow any water remaining to drain out of the valve; your idea of injecting/introducing antifreeze is enticing though...🧐

BrianZ

Yes, @4ncar, these little "gotcha's" seem to require a good plan & checklist to stay out of trouble.  Where in the outside shower was your break - at the mixing valve or in the spray head?

Here's a drawing of how I envision the problem inside the toilet valve connection, based on people's broken part photos & looking at our own - compare to my photo above..

I'm guessing water gets trapped as shown between the black & white plastic parts, then causes the circular break at the arrows.  I'm surprised that compressed air traveling upwards through this pipe would even lift any of it out.  If we were to flush this pipe with  antifreeze, that should give us any needed protection. 

Flushing the outside shower with antifreeze might be a good idea too - maybe I'll make another pair of short winterizing hoses with screw-on connectors like I have for running antifreeze through the pump (which I leave on until time to flush in the spring, so as not to contaminate the rest of the plumbing).

Fergie

Brian Z:

I think your analysis is right on! You should send your diagram to Thetford along with the problem that it creates and ask them how they plan to fix it since the toilet and its valve is used all over the RV industry!

Fergie

BrianZ

Thanks, @Fergie, good idea!
When yours broke, did it leave a black plastic ring stuck to the outside of the valve?  Was that glued to the white plastic part?

Michigan_Mike

JB Weld is a great product and should bond the piece back into place.   👍🏻

4ncar

@BrianZ I think it’s a good assumption, but just that.  I surly don’t know how the two pieces are fitted and whether there is in fact this space where water resides.  Unless we know this for fact, I wouldn’t say anything to thetford.  Of course they know about this! It’s built in absolecense! Lol. I would also venture to guess, this piece is designed to fail. It couldn’t hurt to inquire of them, but I am sure we wouldn’t be telling them anything they don’t already know... that’s my take on the matter.

My outdoor shower froze in the mixing valve. Again, this is also unserviceable and must be replaced as a unit...🤬

Fergie

To BrianZ:

Mine didn't come off. It cracked at the bottom. The photo is below:


I wasn't into failure analysis at the time, I just wanted to get it repaired. I showed the photo to the RV dealer where I bought the new valve assembly and he said this seems to be why they all fail there from freezing. That's why he kept the parts on hand. Not wanting to go through this again, I am opting for the antifreeze winterizing method!

Fergie

BrianZ

If Thetford would just get rid of the long black inner tube so that water could easily drain, that would save people from a lot of headaches, both for repairs & winterizing.

I will likely be adding antifreeze next winter to the toilet valve & the outdoor shower mixing valve/hose/head, in addition to the water pump & P-traps.  Just need to get the extra screw-on fittings & pieces of hose to facilitate that..

SHURFLO (244-2926 1/2" x 14 NPT x 1/2" Barb Straight Wingnut Swivel Adapter https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002IZJ7CW

LDR Industries 516 B1210 Nylon Tubing, 1/2" x 10', Clear
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004CR4OP4

I would also get a 1/2" barbed Y-connector to connect 3 pieces of the hose & 2 screw-on fittings from shower mixer to a funnel, then cap for the winter.

UPDATE:  Turns out that I only needed a 3/8" plastic Tee from Lowes, because I was able to use the old toilet hose that I had replaced to fit the new shutoff valve I installed.  So, I was able to repurpose the old hose by cutting it into 3 pieces to make a Y-shaped antifreeze delivery hose to winterize the outdoor shower mixer/hose/head..

I also used a 1/2" fitting at top to attach a 2" wide PVC bushing to serve as a funnel for pouring antifreeze.  It can be replaced with the cap & left for the winter until flushing in the spring.