Alde 3020 - Do you turn it off at night?

Omniphil

Do you guys turn your system off at night to keep the hot water system from continuously keeping the water hot?
I have been leaving my system on (Including leaving the hot water in normal mode) for the entire time we are camping (2-3 days at a time).

The only issue I have is that the temperature display changes quite a bit and sometime the heat comes when you don't want it too because the temp display drops below 65 and it certainly not that cold in the trailer. So I'm thinking maybe it's best to just shut the whole system off at night?

I know I can set the night schedule, but I think that is just for the heat, hot water would still be maintained all night?

Or maybe I should be going in at night at setting just the shower icon to the minimum position at night?

jameskuzman

Despite the fact that the Alde system uses a single "boiler" to heat both the domestic hot water used for showers, washing up, etc. and the glycol that circulates in a closed loop to provide heat for the camper, these are really two separate systems that just happen to share a common heat source and a common control panel.

You can keep the water heater turned on the entire time you are camping without using the central heating system at all. Likewise, once you winterize the camper, you can use the heating system without using the water heater. The only possible downside to leaving the hot water heater turned on full time is that you will consume fuel - either propane or electricity - to do so. If you're connected to shore power and the electricity is "free" (or at least unlimited), there's no penalty at all really. If you're not connected to shore power and are using propane, then it will deplete your LP eventually and you'll probably want to conserve it.

Personally, I turn the water heater off when I'm going to bed for the night. Then, assuming I have shore power of course, when I'm ready for my morning shower, I set the Alde to 2KW electric and use the little "shower boost" feature and I have plenty of hot water within 10 - 15 minutes. Propane would probably be even quicker, but I've never been in that much of a hurry. 

The accuracy of the thermometer in any of heating, cooling, or water heating systems - Alde, Dometic, Elwell - seems to be less accurate than the ones we are used to in our home heating and cooling systems. This can be due to the location of the temperature sensor among other things. Personally, I wouldn't worry so much about correlating a number to your comfort. If the panel says 65 (which you may typically perceive as a comfortable temperature) but the heat comes on and the camper gets too warm, turn it down until you're comfortable and pay no mind to the displayed temperature :-) 

Omniphil

Thanks for the response!

How would I have the hot water turn on without using the heat? I assumed I need the 2KW setting active for heat and hot water (This is while operated on shore power)

ScottG

We turn the Alde on only when we need hot water--typically only one or two times a day. Turning it on 20-30 minutes in advance is more than sufficient.

I would never leave it on at night as it makes the bed a little too warm for my liking.  :-)

jameskuzman

@Omniphil - My pleasure! 

To turn off the central heat, press the "minus" button next to the heating icon -the one that looks like a house with a thermometer - until it reaches its minimum temperature (41F). This will prevent the heat from coming on until the interior temperature falls below 41F. 

You can still use the hot water system by pressing the "plus" button next to the hot water icon - the one that looks like a shower head - until the little graph is half shaded. If you want a temporary hot water boost, press the "plus" button again and the graph will be fully shaded (black). 

The fuel source for the boiler can be electric or gas. To heat with electric on shore power, press the "plus" button next to the electric icon - the lightning bolt - which selects 1KW.  Pressing it again bumps it to 2KW. Pressing the button with the flame next to the flame icon allows the system to use gas from the LP tank for heating. Gas and electric can be combined for faster heating or more heat. 

I'm attaching a PDF of the Alde instructions here for you as a reference. 

Omniphil

Thanks James,

Ok, that's pretty much what we have been doing now is turning it down low enough that the heat wont come on. That should work perfect. I think we will also just shut the whole system off at night as Scott mentioned it does get that side of the bed pretty warm....

Homebodyatheart

I run cold, so my heat is on every night. I usually don't need it during the day, but if I do it's on. I've had no issues in three seasons now. Good luck!

Sharon_is_SAM

I wonder why the Alde 3020 allows the hot water function to be completely turned off, whereas the 3010 model defaults to always having the water heating whenever the Alde is turned on.  Any guesses?  Does it have anything to do with the extra heating chamber on the 3020?

ScottG

I'm not familiar with the anatomy of the 3020 vs 3010, but if there is in fact a separated heating that is probably the reason.

Since there was only one heating chamber in the 3010 there was no need for separate controls. The "hot water only" setting turned the heaters on, the "heat and hot water" setting added power to the thermostat and circulator. This, however, was not immediately obvious from the controls (analog and digital) so it tended to create a bit of confusion as owners logically wondered why there wasn't a "heat only" setting.

N7SHG_Ham

Sharon_is_SAM said:

I wonder why the Alde 3020 allows the hot water function to be completely turned off, whereas the 3010 model defaults to always having the water heating whenever the Alde is turned on.  Any guesses?  Does it have anything to do with the extra heating chamber on the 3020?

I think as long as Alde is generating heat, water MAY also be heated on the 3020 if water is present. Not sure what happens exactly when the hot water triangle is blank, manual indicates no hot water, however in more than one place in the manual it indicates that the hot water function is automatic if the Alde is on.

Personally I think since the hot water is obtained from an isolated water jacket around the boiler, I see no way to make heat in the system without also heating the surrounding water jacket for hot water.

ColoradoJon

Also - make sure to calibrate your Alde thermostat.  Check the temp display with a known good thermometer and use the Alde control panel to adjust the temp reading.  Mine was 7 degrees off!

If it is reading incorrectly you may get heat when you really don't need it.

N7SHG_Ham

@ColoradoJon I think part of the issue is the amount "off" varies greatly depending on if sun is hitting the wall outside the thermostat, how often you are opening the door, etc. I don't pay a lot of attention to where I set the thermostat, set it until comfortable and then it maintains that comfort level despite the number on the display. The display set point could vary due to conditions.

ScottG

N7SHG_Ham said:

Sharon_is_SAM said:

I wonder why the Alde 3020 allows the hot water function to be completely turned off, whereas the 3010 model defaults to always having the water heating whenever the Alde is turned on.  Any guesses?  Does it have anything to do with the extra heating chamber on the 3020?

I think as long as Alde is generating heat, water MAY also be heated on the 3020 if water is present. Not sure what happens exactly when the hot water triangle is blank, manual indicates no hot water, however in more than one place in the manual it indicates that the hot water function is automatic if the Alde is on.

Personally I think since the hot water is obtained from an isolated water jacket around the boiler, I see no way to make heat in the system without also heating the surrounding water jacket for hot water.

I agree. I wonder if the difference is more in the way they have revised the controls rather than the actual operation of the boiler. As I mentioned previously, the inability to have heat but not hot water caused some confusion.

If I'm understanding correctly, it sounds like Alde has now provided a separate control for both. It may, however, just be a placebo.

Bayliss

This is what the Alde manual indicates for the 3020 model:



I too believe it is essentially, at least to a certain extent, a "placebo" effect as suggested by @ScottG.  I checked the temperature of the water (via the "Service" button on the Alde control panel) during my last trip and the water was being heated, despite the shower icon setting being off (symbol was empty.)  I did not try taking a shower or run the sink hot water for a few minutes to see if the water maintained a hot temperature, so it is possible that the water may be at least minimally heated.  I previously made some notes that the temperature is around 50 degrees, but I cannot now recall if that was an assumption on my part, or I read that somewhere.  Regardless, that is likely what happens, because I agree with @N7SHG_Ham's point that if you are heating the inside of the trailer, the glycol is circulating and is likely also going to heat the water (at least to some extent) despite the hot water function being turned off at the Alde control panel.

It is my understanding that the function of the shower icon setting is to make the water "hotter," with the actual temperature reached depending on the setting you choose (1 kw when half-shaded; 2 kw when fully shaded.)  One thing that is for sure with the 3020 boiler is that when the symbol for the hot water is fully shaded (i.e., set for the "boost" mode), the “central heating” of the cabin is turned off and the glycol pump will stop circulating (thus not heating the camper cabin) for approximately 30 minutes.  This focuses the heating on the water tank so that the water can be super-heated.  After that, the system will revert back to the normal cabin heating/circulation mode.

@Omniphil's original question, I turn off the hot water function at night.  However, you can use the control panel to set up a time in the morning for the water to heat so that it is ready for you when you awake.  I have not found that to be necessary, because the water heats quickly (within a half hour or less), so I just flip it on in the morning and relax a bit before getting up to take a shower.

ScottG

While I have no direct experience with the 3020 or the digital controls, I suspect @Bayliss is correct about the hot water (a.k.a, "shower") icon providing temperature boost.

This was even a feature on the 3010s with the analog panel. With the controls set to "heat and hot water" the Alde would deliver toasty 130F water to the taps. Setting the control on "hot water only" would bump that up to a scorching 150F. (I confirmed these numbers with my own tests as I have no mixing valve to confound the issue.)

I'll bet a nickel the new Aldes work pretty much the same way, only the control interface has been changed to make it seem a little more intuitive.

Photomom

That’s when we use it! Gets cold at night in the woods!

Sharon_is_SAM

I think the Alde Flow feature may only be available on the 400s.  Not sure how it is designed to work.