Dual Fuel Generators and figuring out what I want/need

DigitalSorceress · May 2019

Hi, I'm quite new to the forum.. I'm going to be taking delivery of my 320 S Boondock Edge this weekend.. and have been doing a bunch of research for the stuff I want/need

One of my own personal absolute must haves is a generator so I can run the AC when off grid during summer heat/humidity.

All relevant "polite neighbor" stuff taken as a given I am looking to get the quietest generator I can. I've been really struggling between a smaller 2kW model and a 3-3.5kW model. I know the AC in the 320 can run off a 2kW generator under most conditions, though I've read that at high altitudes sometimes they can't quite start the AC.. though I figure if I'm that high up, I'd be less likely to need it ... so maybe that's not a worry?

The other thing is that I've noticed that all the specs .. every time.. it seems like the camp quiet generators that are in the 2kW range are actually slightly more noisy than those in the 3-3.5kW range .. I assume this is due to lower RPM/Bigger cylinder and/or more sound mitigation?

I am 99% sure I want a dual fuel generator and would plan to run it exclusively off Propane.

Everything I read/watch on the subject says that propane

CON
* delivers slightly less power (generators take a 100 to 200 watt hit on starting/running output)
* slightly more bulky due to metal cylinders
* slightly more expensive to run

PRO
* is way safer to store/transport
* creates only half the CO of gasoline
* is way cleaner for the innards of the generator (doesn't build up deposits in carb the way gasoline does)
* has "Unlimited shelf life" (no gas going stale on you) and that generators run a bit more quietly under it.
* run time on one "fill" is longer on one tank of propane than on one tank of gas

I had looked through these forums on the topic and found quite an old one..

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/4082/generator-dual-fuel

It appears that there weren't so many camper friendly/quiet options back then?

Found this discussion of one of my two choices

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/6616/champion-inverter-genorator

I'm kind of down to should I get this one or that

Champion 3400-Watt Dual Fuel RV Ready Portable Inverter Generator with Electric Start

This is 3400 starting / 3100 running W on gasoline so it's got more power than I need
Do not know the values for propane but assume baout 3300 / 3000 or 3200/2900 based on typical values I've sen
weights about 100 lbs
rated about 59dB in sound
runs 14 hrs on 1 tank propane or 7 hours on one tank gas (25% load)

DuroMax XP2000EH Dual Fuel Inverter Generator

This is 2000w starting / 1600 running on gasoline
1900 w starting / 1500 running on propane
weighs about 53 Lbs
had to dig for db level as it wasn't listed on the amazon listing but chainsawjournal said 61dB
runs 21 hours on 1 propane tank, just under 7 on gas (smaller gas tank)

So I'm really struggling.. on teh one hand I think the smaller generator will work for me.. I KNOW The bigger will but the added cost and weight .. I just am not sure how to really decide..

If folks have thoughts/ suggestions / corrections I'd be really interested to hear them as I'm paralyzed with "which one!!!!"

N7SHG_Ham · May 2019

Never heard of the DuroMax, lots of reviews on that Champion and tons of you tube videos. Other than weight and storage space, I would think the Champion would be better choice. There are other propane options in the 2000w class of generator including the Honda 2200i. You can either install a propane kit or buy new generators already converted, however a new Honda 2200i 1ith propane conversion will run about $1500-1600 bucks.

I have seen Yamaha's converted to propane also, there are a few companies that could provide the kits for potentially a number of generators?

Verna · May 2019

From personal experience, as I was the unsuspecting neighbor of one who was told the Champion 3400 was the quietest generator available.....it is not quiet. This was a gasoline model.

grubbster · May 2019

Also the Champion 3400 is pretty heavy. Don't expect one person to be able to load it into a truck. I used to have one and have gone to a 2200 watt Westinghouse. Much easier to move around.

DigitalSorceress · May 2019

Verna said:

From personal experience, as I was the unsuspecting neighbor of one who was told the Champion 3400 was the quietest generator available.....it is not quiet. This was a gasoline model.

Hmm interesting about the noise level.. yeah I see a lot of claims about how quiet it is.. I'll dig a bit deeper to see if anyone else has reported that it's less quiet than advertised.

DigitalSorceress · May 2019

grubbster said:

Also the Champion 3400 is pretty heavy. Don't expect one person to be able to load it into a truck. I used to have one and have gone to a 2200 watt Westinghouse. Much easier to move around.

I can lift that much up to truck height but yeah it's kind of at the upper limit of what I want to do.. if I were really tired/exhausted from a long trek etc.. I could see being too tired/beat to be able to pull it out.. if it were in the 60 lb range I'd be much happier..

The weight is the only reason I'm considering the smaller one... I chose the TaB because it was significantly under my truck's max tow rating.. I wanted to have lots of towing capacity headroom.. I should probably follow that philosophy when it comes to my back muscles too...

N7SHG_Ham · May 2019

Your other option is two smaller generators and then hook them up with a parallel kit, two of the Honda 2200i for instance will provide 4400w when run together, about 50 pounds each. Of course the cost is more going that way, but weight is much easier to lift solo.

WilliamA · May 2019

Keep in mind that 2 generators running make twice as much noise. I'm sure there are those who will disagree. Both gen sets in parallel won't work as hard as one running full- tilt, but it's going to be louder by a good margin. Have you considered a smaller A/C unit?

WilliamA

DigitalSorceress · May 2019

WilliamA said:

... Have you considered a smaller A/C unit? ...

The A.C unit in the TaB 320 is pretty small - only 5k BTU. I think the smaller gen will power it alone just fine.. whether it would do so using propane, at 5000 ft + elevation I'd have to run some numbers.. I know it could run during running, but when the compressor kicks in is what I'm concerned about.. That and well, if I get the smaller generator it would be a case of Either run the AC or use it to charge batteries / laptop

Totally hear you (pun intended) about the two smaller ones in parallel will be way louder than a single bigger one even under full load.. that Champion is really quiet

Really it comes down to: do I want to risk having ~just enough~ capacity to power my A/C or charge batteries/ run computer stuff that I need for work....... but have something super easy to manage, maybe even semi perma-mount it to the hitch area with extended exhaust..

OR

Do I want to have a generator that totally will meet my power needs but will be right at my own personal limit for being able to get it in and out of the back of my Tow Vehicle (which is where it will have to live as no way would I be able to perma-mount it

I'm not made of money, but one thought is that I get the smaller one and really try and make it work and if it doesn't meet my needs, buy the bigger one and then craigslist the smaller.. I'd spend more than if I just got the bigger one to start but I'd KNOW I needed the bigger one then..

jgram2 · May 2019

@DigitalSorceress While doing your research, have you seen the myriad discussions re the “soft start or”easy start”? Here is one thread, not meant to add to the confusion of choices, especially as there doesn’t appear to be a definitive answer, but there are some positive experiences from members. https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/comment/92303#Comment_92303

Cbusguy · May 2019

@jgram2 we are missing some info, is her tab a 2019 or 2020, there is a potential huge difference. The 2019 will not need or work with a softstart as it is just a standard small window AC unit. The 2020 has a different type that may or may not need a softstart, we have no idea what it is yet. It mounts under the passenger side rear bench.

The 2019 I would have no issue with using a 2k generator on it. The 2020, I am in wait and see mode.

edit for spelling

jgram2 · May 2019

Thanks @Cbusguy. Good to know there’s a difference.

DigitalSorceress · May 2019

Cbusguy said:

@jgram2 we are missing some info, is her tab a 2019 or 2020, there is a potential huge difference. The 2019 will not need or work with a softstart as it is just a standard small window AC unit. The 2020 has a different type that may or may not need a softstart, we have no idea what it is yet. It mounts under the passenger side rear bench.

The 2019 I would have no issue with using a 2k generator on it. The 2020, I am in wait and see mode.

edit for spelling

OH THANKS!! yes, sorry it's a 2019.. it's got the small window unit type AC.. 5k BTU I think..

I've really been going back and forth and think my ultimate answer may be .. I'll get the smmaller unit and really make sure I run it through a good shakedown before I get too far into plans for bigger travels .. if it fails to meet my needs/expectations, I'll buy the bigger one and sell the 2k knowing that I NEED the bigger one. I'll take a hit over having bought the big one right up front, but will know absolutely that it was needed.

My current plans involve some extended trips.. I telecommute for work and can do my job anywhere I can get good Internet.. My power needs for worst case (I'm somewhere I need to work entirely off cell signal and generator are a Laptop, maybe an LCD monitor, keeping my phone topped off and running the A/C (assuming it's hot)) so long as the A/C on the TaB starting draw isn't horrendous, it should only draw about 575 watts running?

I'll just plan on really pushing it during some shake down testing before I commit to the actual big trips out West.

DigitalSorceress · May 2019

I did purchase the DuroMax Dual fuel.. I went to a store that had the champions and I dead lifted one to see if I could manage it into /out of my truck alone.. I can (I'm quite strong) but I don't think I'd ~want to~ very often.. it's at the upper limit of what I would want to do .. but the DuroMax is I can lift with one hand.. wouldn't want to lug it long distances like that but I can easily lift it.. which is the point.

It's super quiet and runs my Air Con without grumbling, so SUCCESS.. have yet to actually use-use it though.

Thanks for all the thoughts/suggestions. I'll let folks know how it goes longer term

klenger · May 2019

I realize that the original poster has made his selection, and I have no intention of 2nd guessing that decision. In fact, my comments below support his decision.

I also have a T@B 320 S, and other than the Alde running with both heating elements (~2000 watts) on 120 VAC (a loosing proposition from a generator IMHO), the next largest load is the AC unit and/or the converter. The AC unit only draws about 4-5 amps, so no problem there. The fridge uses about 2 amps AC, but again, a loosing proposition to run it from a generator when it will run on LP just fine. I replaced the WFCO converter with Progressive Dynamics Lithium 30 A model, which draws somewhere in the area of 9 amps at full output and almost nothing with a fully charged battery.

Bottom line here is that I can't think of any built-in T@B 320 appliances that would benefit from a generator any bigger than the Honda EU2200i that I ended up getting. The only reason I can see to get a higher power generator would be to run external appliances such as hair dryer, cook-top, toaster, etc. One of the things that I love about the T@B is the extreme energy efficiency and the ability to run it with my 200 watt roof top solar and the Honda EU2200i generator when needed. See the link in my signature for more info on my setup.

DigitalSorceress · May 2019

@klenger I appreciate your input .. I was a bit worried that the AC along with the stuff I need to work might be too much for the 2kW DuroMax when it is running on LP (reduces wattage to like 1800) but it seems more than fine.. I'm just the "if it's worth doing, it's worth over speccing" kind of person.

However, I think I've gotten the right thing for my needs.. Now I just need to build a baffle box to see just how quiet I can get it..

jcfaber1 · May 2019

Check out Hutch Mountain for conversion kit to propane and natural gas for your Honda generator. I really doubt you will have trouble running the T@B ac with the Honda. I can run our 9k ac with the Honda 2200. I did install a Micro Air easy start however.
John

Jilong · July 2019

DigitalSorceress said:

I did purchase the DuroMax Dual fuel.. I went to a store that had the champions and I dead lifted one to see if I could manage it into /out of my truck alone.. I can (I'm quite strong) but I don't think I'd ~want to~ very often.. it's at the upper limit of what I would want to do .. but the DuroMax is I can lift with one hand.. wouldn't want to lug it long distances like that but I can easily lift it.. which is the point.

It's super quiet and runs my Air Con without grumbling, so SUCCESS.. have yet to actually use-use it though.

Thanks for all the thoughts/suggestions. I'll let folks know how it goes longer term

For your Duromax generator, how are you grounding it while camping?

Cbusguy · July 2019

Generally speaking, folks don't ground temporary generators.

A proper ground rod is what 5 or 6 feet long? Sinking it into the ground is easy enough with the use of an impact drill. That how I did mine at home and the work shop.

But how do you get it out of the ground to reuse it on the next trip.

Verna · July 2019

Cbusguy said:

Generally speaking, folks don't ground temporary generators.

A proper ground rod is what 5 or 6 feet long? Sinking it into the ground is easy enough with the use of an impact drill. That how I did mine at home and the work shop.

But how do you get it out of the ground to reuse it on the next trip.

Seriously, wack it on each side with a 3 lb hammer until it loosens in the ground. Pull up (watch your back), wack some more until the ground gives it up....says the former telephone company tech.....

Cbusguy · July 2019

Okay then......still never seen anyone running a generator drive in a grounding rod

Verna · July 2019

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/comment/30948#Comment_30948

Maybe this is what @Jilong is thinking of. The bonding of the neutral with a grounding plug.

This is not an actual ground rod, but a specially wired plug to bond the neutral wires.

I have the plug that RZRBZUG made, although I have not used the generator yet.

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