400 Front Window Warping & Marring - Replacement Available - see drodabaugh 9/2 and 9/10 posts

deek312deek312 Posts: 19Member
edited September 11 in Camping & Travel
When we first purchased our 2018 400 (used) we noticed marring in the middle of the front window but didn't think too much of it. Figured we could find a product to clean up minor imperfections and scratches in the acrylic. Still wondered what caused it. Well after driving 1,000 miles with it this past weekend I believe I understand what's going on. At highway speed our window is actually "denting" for lack of a better word (Maybe warping??) and the window is rubbing on the inside between the 2 layers. This is most definitely not something I will be able to buff out. Anyone else having this problem? I was surprised not to find any mention of this on the forum. Has anyone had to order a new window? Wondering what that costs?... I can only imagine. Even if I can restore the beauty to the front window (either by a new purchase or fixing somehow) still don't have a clue how to keep it from happening again??

(Title edited to direct members to solution.  Sharon)
Derek - Bloomsdale, MO - 2018 [email protected] 400 - 2018 GMC Sierra / 2017 Toyota 4-Runner
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Comments

  • VernaVerna Posts: 5,433Administrator
    I have not heard of that window problem before. Send an email to the factory at [email protected] with photos, and see what their advice is. The email will be sent to the proper department. Please allow a couple of days for a response. 
    Verna, Columbus, IN, 2019 [email protected] 400 Boondock Lite white/red, towed by a white 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 Supercab, 3.5L V6 Ecoboost; [email protected] Administrator




  • DenisPDenisP Posts: 218Member
    edited August 19
    I have the same issue with my 2018 400 and waiting for the replacement window. Travelling at 62 mph through SD with temps in the 80s with gusty winds.  I noticed the front window flexing in the center. I got to my campsite and there was distortion/chaffing between the panes at the center of the window. I called my dealer who began the warranty discussion with NuCamp. 
    2018 [email protected] 400 with Solar
    2013 Tundra TRD 5.7L
    Massachusetts
  • Michigan_MikeMichigan_Mike Posts: 2,563Administrator
    edited August 19
    I have the same issue with the front window of our 2019 [email protected] 400.  This is something I have meant to address (my time has been limited) but initially thought it was something related to the front shade, but I don’t leave the shade down when I’m driving because I leave both front and back open so I can see the traffic behind me.  I also looked at it closer and the offset of the window design wouldn’t allow the shade to rub against the surface of the window, so that couldn’t be the issue.  🤔

    Thanks for the heads up as I sent a note on to the factory and see if this is being reported by other owners too and if it is a manufacturer defect, etc. I will post up any additional details and info that I receive.   👍🏻
    Mike Smith 
    Linden, Mi
    2019 [email protected] 400
    Attached Image
  • deek312deek312 Posts: 19Member
    Not sure what the window dimensions are on all the [email protected] & [email protected] models but I would have to guess anyone with a 400 will experience this issue at highway speeds above 60ish. Someone mentioned flexing above and that is a much better description of what is happening. Such a shame with the windows being kind of big selling point and the view out my front window is rapidly deteriorating. I will get in touch with the factory and would love their help but as I said above I can't imagine how to keep it from happening - other than keep my speed at 55 or below and that ain't happenin' ;)
    Derek - Bloomsdale, MO - 2018 [email protected] 400 - 2018 GMC Sierra / 2017 Toyota 4-Runner
  • deek312deek312 Posts: 19Member
    Here are a few pics...


    Derek - Bloomsdale, MO - 2018 [email protected] 400 - 2018 GMC Sierra / 2017 Toyota 4-Runner
  • VernaVerna Posts: 5,433Administrator
    I do not have that on my 400, and I’ve been towing at 60 to 65. I wonder what the difference is between mine and yours and Mike’s? 

    I’ve towed with a Toyota Tacoma with a camper shell on the truck bed for a year and now I’ll be towing with a full sized Ford F-150 with a camper shell also. I’ve only towed it 30 miles with the F-150 and I didn’t have the camper shell on it yet.
    Verna, Columbus, IN, 2019 [email protected] 400 Boondock Lite white/red, towed by a white 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 Supercab, 3.5L V6 Ecoboost; [email protected] Administrator




  • DalehelmanDalehelman Posts: 1,860Member
    It sounds like different tow vehicle create wind currents over the window. Those with the problem should specify their TV. Some sort of wind deflector may be necessary.
    1. Hash  [email protected] Fun
  • DenisPDenisP Posts: 218Member
    Tundra with tonneau cover. 
    2018 [email protected] 400 with Solar
    2013 Tundra TRD 5.7L
    Massachusetts
  • DalehelmanDalehelman Posts: 1,860Member
    DenisP said:
    Tundra with tonneau cover. 
    Those towing with a “boxier” type vehicle may direct air flow higher and not right at the window. 
    1. Hash  [email protected] Fun
  • vhollowvhollow Posts: 13Member
    I too have this problem.  I have a 2018 Tab 400, purchased in November of 2017, and I tow it with a Chevy Colorado V6, with no shell on the back to deflect air. I had the front window replaced twice the first year, under warranty.  Each time, the striations/cloud inside the two layers of acrylic came back.  When it appeared again on the third front window, towards the end of my warranty coverage, I became discouraged, and let the matter drop.

    I think the idea that the is window warping while traveling, both from the trailer flexing and due to wind hitting the front, is very plausible.  Like Deek312, I was surprised not to see forum comments on this design defect up to now.  Possibly, if the window was, or has been, redesigned to use thicker acrylic panels, that would solve the problem (although it would add weight).  I wonder if Tab 2019s are having this issue too?

    By the way, I had to replace my rear window recently, smashed by golf ball-sized hail in Lubbock, TX (the skin of the trailer now has a lot more character instead of looking new).  The window cost $400 and shipping, installation and tax cost approximately $360.  I would guess that the expense for the front window replacement would also be at least $760 out of warranty.
  • DalehelmanDalehelman Posts: 1,860Member
    @vhollow
    Have you checked your comprehensive insurance about covering your hail damage?
    1. Hash  [email protected] Fun
  • TabberJohnTabberJohn Posts: 511Member
    edited August 21
    Looks like a warranty/recall headache in the making. The trials and tribulations of introducing a new model.
    Whoever manufacturers the window needs to redesign it to handle a 120+ mph wind force.
    It shouldn't matter what you tow with. The two panes should never touch.
    An easy fix during manufacturing might be a clear vertical brace in the middle.
    2015 [email protected] Max S (White/Silver) -> 2014 Ford Escape 2.0L (turbo, AWD, factory tow)
  • TNOutbackTNOutback Posts: 236Member
    A small, clear acrylic disk in the center between the panes should fix that and be minimally obtrusive.
    2020 [email protected] 400 BDL w/ solar
    2016 F-150 4x4 Crew, 3.5L Ecoboost
    Middle Tennessee
    YNWA LFC
  • VernaVerna Posts: 5,433Administrator
    edited August 22
    ******* Anyone who has this window problem, please email [email protected], with photos, please. *******

    I’m sure they will need your VIN (left side of your tongue on a label), purchase date, purchased where, and when you first noticed this. Oh yeah, your real name and contact info. They are following this discussion with great interest as they have not experienced this problem before. (I guess the owners have been quiet about it.)

    Just for info for them, your type of tow vehicle and if it’s a pickup truck, do you have a camper shell over the truck bed or a cover. 
    Verna, Columbus, IN, 2019 [email protected] 400 Boondock Lite white/red, towed by a white 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 Supercab, 3.5L V6 Ecoboost; [email protected] Administrator




  • BigGroverBigGrover Posts: 449Member
    I have noticed mine flexing while we are driving.  So far no marring yet.  I thought it might be from the heat, heat index here in Al has been around 112*.  Also driving in full sunlight I am sure the windiw gets to and above 125*.
    BigGrover
    2019 [email protected] 400 Boondock Lite
    2018 Ram 1500 Quad Cab Hemi
    Central Alabama
  • jkjennjkjenn Posts: 5,485Member
    edited August 22
    I actually noticed something similar, tonight, on my 320. The factory installed my front window about 18 months, ago. I will inspect more closely. If showing g the same signs will do as @Verna described. I am dropping my [email protected] off at nüCamp for work the first week of September, so if it is in face happening, it will give them a great chance to see one in person.

    It makes me wonder if the window manufacturer has changed their product?

    Edit: my marring is happening more towards the bottom of the window.

    Jenn Grover | 2015 320 S | 2018 Jeep Grand WK2 | Nights in [email protected]: 211 | Pittsburgh

  • deek312deek312 Posts: 19Member
    Been away from the forums for a few days. My TV is a GMC Sierra with tonneau cover. Makes total sense that vehicles with a "boxier" body - whether that is an SUV or truck with a camper shell - would not have this issue. However the window should still be rated for something much higher than what it's being subjected to. I bought my [email protected] used so I am out of warranty and the factory is giving me the vibe that I'm on my own. I have to admit that I'm pretty disappointed.
    Derek - Bloomsdale, MO - 2018 [email protected] 400 - 2018 GMC Sierra / 2017 Toyota 4-Runner
  • VernaVerna Posts: 5,433Administrator
    @deek312, please be sure to send an email to [email protected] with the above requested info. 

    I get my truck camper shell installed next Tuesday, but I have no long high speed trips planned between now and then. 
    Verna, Columbus, IN, 2019 [email protected] 400 Boondock Lite white/red, towed by a white 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 Supercab, 3.5L V6 Ecoboost; [email protected] Administrator




  • vhollowvhollow Posts: 13Member
    I have followed Verna's helpful suggestions, and written an email to NuCamp customer service, repeating my experience with three marred front windows.  I included my vin, and images.  There is a youtube video, from "Travels with Delany," titled "NuCamp Warranty Repairs and Upgrades to our Tab 400," in which the author notes the marring inside the two sheets of acrylic, and his front window replacement, although he is unclear (ha) as to the source (published 12/3/2018, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLQLjSZcqAQ ). I think I have seen this marring in other images of 400s on the forum, although not called to attention as an issue.  Perhaps, if enough owners do bring this matter up, some group solution may be possible.  I have attached three images of marring on my first replacement window. It is the same window, from three different distances.

  • deek312deek312 Posts: 19Member
    Verna said:
    @deek312, please be sure to send an email to [email protected] with the above requested info. 

    I get my truck camper shell installed next Tuesday, but I have no long high speed trips planned between now and then. 
    At this point I think I've sent them all the necessary info including pictures and info on the TV. Hoping to hear something soon. Thanks!
    Derek - Bloomsdale, MO - 2018 [email protected] 400 - 2018 GMC Sierra / 2017 Toyota 4-Runner
  • jkjennjkjenn Posts: 5,485Member
    Here is what I have going on with mine:


    Jenn Grover | 2015 320 S | 2018 Jeep Grand WK2 | Nights in [email protected]: 211 | Pittsburgh

  • DenisPDenisP Posts: 218Member
    While I waiting for my window replacement I was sufficiently spooked by the others experiences that I bought a used cap for my Tundra in hopes to avoid any further issue. The things you do to protect your Tab.....
    2018 [email protected] 400 with Solar
    2013 Tundra TRD 5.7L
    Massachusetts
  • VernaVerna Posts: 5,433Administrator
    I changed campsites again last Friday (what I’ll do to stay close to where I want to be) and when I was setting up the Backup Assist on the F150, I did not drive over 30 mph coming back from setting it up. I did not want to tempt fate!  The truck shell will be installed at 1 pm tomorrow!
    Verna, Columbus, IN, 2019 [email protected] 400 Boondock Lite white/red, towed by a white 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 Supercab, 3.5L V6 Ecoboost; [email protected] Administrator




  • deek312deek312 Posts: 19Member

    I am feeling the same way about the TV. We just bought our 400 in early July and have been hauling it with my pickup but I'm wanting to get our 4-Runner ready to haul it ASAP now and that's a shame... shouldn't be that way. The windows should be made to withstand much higher winds than this. This window thing is a big, big deal to me. I’ve heard from the factory a couple of times and at this point they are speaking to the window manufacturer. I’m not getting warm and fuzzies that I’m going to get any help and that will be a big negative for me with nuCamp. This is a camper that I’d planned to haul around the country and there is no way that window is going to hold up. I’ve been doing a lot of looking around and there are a few high-quality campers out there for a similar price point. My only hurdle is my wife who likes the way the camper “looks”. I’m a little more interested in quality, durability and functionality.

    Derek - Bloomsdale, MO - 2018 [email protected] 400 - 2018 GMC Sierra / 2017 Toyota 4-Runner
  • DalehelmanDalehelman Posts: 1,860Member
    The window manufacturer needs to be accountable for this problem not NuCamp. NuCamp needs to apply maximum pressure to get the window company to correct the problem, and I am sure they are.
    1. Hash  [email protected] Fun
  • deek312deek312 Posts: 19Member
    edited August 27
    The window manufacturer needs to be accountable for this problem not NuCamp. NuCamp needs to apply maximum pressure to get the window company to correct the problem, and I am sure they are.
    You are correct in saying the the window manufacturer needs to be accountable. I should have worded my post differently. However, if I'm left hanging where do I turn? I bought used and have no warranty to fall back on - that's on me. But I'm not spending $700+ on a new window. I'm the owner of a construction business and, trust me, when the subcontractor screws up, the customer expects me to take care of the problem. And I feel that I am, in fact, answerable to the customer in those situations if I am to maintain my reputation.

    I'm still shocked that there aren't more owners experiencing this out there. I'm not sure of the number of [email protected]'s out there either. I know you don't pass them on the highway very often and the uniqueness is one thing I love about them.
    Derek - Bloomsdale, MO - 2018 [email protected] 400 - 2018 GMC Sierra / 2017 Toyota 4-Runner
  • vhollowvhollow Posts: 13Member
    The acrylic windows, at least those in my 2018 400, are made by plastoform.eu, which is located in Slovenia.  I don’t know what that means regarding the company’s willingness to  accept responsibility for front windows that warp when traveling on the freeway and, as a result of the plastic flexing, develop striations and opacities inside the two acrylic layers. As noted, I think this is the most convincing explanation for the problem, since it is inside the layers, and runs horizontally across the part of the window most likely to flex. Owners certainly should not have to buy wind deflectors or specific tvs to avoid stressing the windows. However, I would guess that there are other possible explanations for the problem, such as some bad batches of windows due to mishaps in the manufacturing process, chemical composition, thickness of acrylic, etc. It would be nice to know two things: how widespread is this problem on the 400s? And has the front window design been modified to avoid this problem? The fact that Michigan Mike’s 400 has the marring, and is a 2019, is suggestive, as is the fact that NuCamp has indicated they are discussing the issue with Plastoform (I too was told this). But, as deek312 notes, if this problem is widespread, why hasn’t it received more forum attention? I can think of several explanations for this situation. Perhaps many owners have not driven at highway speed sufficient distances to cause marring. Maybe the marring is present, but some owners are not trying to get it fixed. Or possibly significant numbers of owners have gotten window replacements (like me), and that solved the problem (unlike for me). What I would like to see happen is that enough owners notify NuCamp, and also let the forum know via this thread, to persuade them, in combination with Plastoform, to replace Tab 400 front windows with redesigned ones that don’t develop the internal band of opacity, including for those of us already out of warranty. At the very least, a deep discount in the cost to owners would be appropriate.

  • N7SHG_HamN7SHG_Ham Posts: 665Member
    I will check my 2019 400 window, but I don't believe I have experienced the issue, built in February 2019 and about 5500 miles so far, certainly some of it at 65+ MPH.
    2019 [email protected] 400 Boondock Lite
  • DalehelmanDalehelman Posts: 1,860Member
    N7SHG_Ham said:
    I will check my 2019 400 window, but I don't believe I have experienced the issue, built in February 2019 and about 5500 miles so far, certainly some of it at 65+ MPH.
    What is your tow vehicle?
    1. Hash  [email protected] Fun
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