Solar / Battery upgrade

Denny16 · April 2020

Tundra57’s issue was he was getting undercharge, or it was taking very long time to charge. He did the converter swap to get a bigger charger and upgraded his charger to battery wire to increase the available charge rate for his battery. I believe his charger/distribution panel is under the front dinette seat, and the Long run to his battery was part of the issue.

But for those TaBs withnthe battery and charger closer together, it does not seem to be an issue. The BMS on the lithium battery is regulating the battery charge state, so a special charger does not seem to be needed. Same with solar, the Soar controller is regulating the charge. For me, the beauty of lithium, you can charge it (or Solar has kept it charged) before you go, and the solar system seems to keep up with the TaB demand, unless you use a high draw appliance like a mircrowave on the inverter. You get 85 watts +/- of power from a 109 watt lithium, vice 50 watts from a conventional 100 watt battery.
cheers

Michael49 · April 2020

Denny16 said:

Tundra57’s issue was he was getting undercharge, or it was taking very long time to charge. He did the converter swap to get a bigger charger and upgraded his charger to battery wire to increase the available charge rate for his battery. I believe his charger/distribution panel is under the front dinette seat, and the Long run to his battery was part of the issue.

But for those TaBs withnthe battery and charger closer together, it does not seem to be an issue. The BMS on the lithium battery is regulating the battery charge state, so a special charger does not seem to be needed. Same with solar, the Soar controller is regulating the charge. For me, the beauty of lithium, you can charge it (or Solar has kept it charged) before you go, and the solar system seems to keep up with the TaB demand, unless you use a high draw appliance like a mircrowave on the inverter. You get 85 watts +/- of power from a 109 watt lithium, vice 50 watts from a conventional 100 watt battery.
cheers

Thanks! I will stick with the stock converter for now. I just received my two 100 Ah Battleborn's the other day

dutsmiller · April 2020

@Michael49 I hope your battery box is wider than the one on my 2020, I had a heck of a time getting them to fit. The battery box is about an inch too narrow to fit them side-by-side on a flat surface. The most terrifying part was before the strap was there and the battery dropped while I was test fitting. The battery got stuck and I and to pull on the terminals quite a bit harder than was comfortable to get it back out (thankfully nothing broke/bent, they're very well put together).

The issue seems to be the original AGMs were taller/narrower and the Battleborns are wider/shorter. I had to elevate the battery on right such that there was a little bit of overlap for the tabs. I ended up removing the piece of wood that held the straps down to gain the height delta necessary to make it all fit. I then used that piece of wood to fill in the gap front/back plus a pair of shims to keep it all snug. It's not perfect, but everything in there is in there nice and tight.

I reprogrammed the solar panel and will stop back this weekend to see if it brings them up to 14.4v (they shipped at around 13.3, which is ~90% capacity). Next phase is to mount the battery monitor. I'm leaning towards mounting it in the closet by drilling a hole in the void where the radio is.

(Edited for photo size.)

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5021717/uploads/editor/5e/g442gfwn5fmi.jpeg

Michael49 · April 2020

dutsmiller said:

@Michael49 I hope your battery box is wider than the one on my 2020, I had a heck of a time getting them to fit. The battery box is about an inch too narrow to fit them side-by-side on a flat surface. The most terrifying part was before the strap was there and the battery dropped while I was test fitting. The battery got stuck and I and to pull on the terminals quite a bit harder than was comfortable to get it back out (thankfully nothing broke/bent, they're very well put together).

The issue seems to be the original AGMs were taller/narrower and the Battleborns are wider/shorter. I had to elevate the battery on right such that there was a little bit of overlap for the tabs. I ended up removing the piece of wood that held the straps down to gain the height delta necessary to make it all fit. I then used that piece of wood to fill in the gap front/back plus a pair of shims to keep it all snug. It's not perfect, but everything in there is in there nice and tight.

I reprogrammed the solar panel and will stop back this weekend to see if it brings them up to 14.4v (they shipped at around 13.3, which is ~90% capacity). Next phase is to mount the battery monitor. I'm leaning towards mounting it in the closet by drilling a hole in the void where the radio is.

I don't have a photo on hand but I swear my 2018 battery box looks completely different from that! My '18 has a single 12V 235 Ah battery. I'll post here how it goes.

What gauge wire did you use to connect your Battleborn's? I've seen some suggest 2/0 but that is some thick and pricey cable. Your's definitely look thinner than that.

I received my battery monitor the other day. I'll be curious to see how you mount yours - I am tempted to just mount it near the battery since I can access the readings via Bluetooth on my phone so it doesn't actually need to be mounted in a visible location.

Denny16 · April 2020

Our 2018 TaB 400 uses no. 2 gauge wire (not 2/0), which does not seem to get hot, so is working fine. Wire goes 2 then 1, the 1/0 and 2/0. No 2 gauge will handle 200 amps up to a 96-inch run, 24 inch run will handle 700 amps. So you on,y need a larger gauge wire when the runs are really long to the large load. My 2000 amp inverter uses no 2 wire for its 1-foot connections to the battery via an in line fuse.

I put my Victron battery monitor display on the closet wall next to the bed area light switch, works great, the back of the meter is in the radio void, wires come up in the AC duct void area, following the solar panel wires.

Edited for photo size.

Michael49 · April 2020

Denny16 said:

Our 2018 TaB 400 uses no. 2 gauge wire (not 2/0), which does not seem to get hot, so is working fine. Wire goes 2 then 1, the 1/0 and 2/0. No 2 gauge will handle 200 amps up to a 96-inch run, 24 inch run will handle 700 amps. So you on,y need a larger gauge wire when the runs are really long to the large load. My 2000 amp inverter uses no 2 wire for its 1-foot connections to the battery via an in line fuse.

I put my Victron battery monitor display on the closet wall next to the bed area light switch, works great, the back of the meter is in the radio void, wires come up in the AC duct void area, following the solar panel wires.

Thanks.

I understand wire gauging, but most Lithium battery setups that I've seen have connected their batteries in parallel using heavy duty wire, typically 4/0 (not 2/0 as I mistyped in my other post) - maybe that's overkill, but that's what I've seen others use to connect lithium batteries together.

I like your battery monitor placement - thanks!

Denny16 · April 2020

They probably used ready made automotive cables, which are typically larger cables.
It depends on the size of the batteries and the expected max load at the connection
point.
cheers

dutsmiller · April 2020

I needed to buy two negative cables. A 1 ft for the battery monitor shunt and a 24+ inch to convert the circuit from series to parallel (the original two 6v batteries to two 12v battleborn batteries). I ended up using 1 gauge wiring only because it was available in-store at tractor supply. I'm sure it's overkill, but the price/availability was right (~$25 for both).

Denny16 · April 2020

I did the same for the shunt I installed, ended up with gauge 1 wire. Better to error on the side of too large...
cheers

N7SHG_Ham · April 2020

@dutsmiller what size were the stock batteries? I understand NuCamp was using GC2 batteries for the 2x 6v setup? BB does sell that size, so maybe those would fit better?

dutsmiller · April 2020

@N7SHG_Ham In retrospect, I'm sure that was the issue, but too late now!

That said, the only downside to what I had do was that things are held there by space restrictions instead of straps (friction via shims for one, friction via the battery cables for the other) and that the vent hole is somewhat blocked (which isn't needed for the battleborns).

Thinking about the upside, I don't think there's an advantage to using 2x6v (series) vs. 2x12v (parallel) with battleborns and I have the ability to add/remove one without having to worry about voltages. Also, the two 12v models were $200 cheaper for the same capacity.

TLDR: Had I researched battery dimensions more, I probably would have ended up with two 6v batteries, but I managed to get the two 12v batteries to fit and am probably better off.

N7SHG_Ham · April 2020

Both form factors from BB are 12v and same capacity, so you have exact same electrical performance, it is just easier to install the GC2 form factor if the space is designed for that size of battery from the factory. Not sure why BB charges more for the GC2 size.

Tundra57 · April 2020

@Michael49 I changed my converter because it was not charging my gel batteries in the best way. Time spent in fast charge mode was always too short. This converter seems to work better. But I just wanted this thread to know the replacement does have a lithium charge setting.

I currently don't have Lithium batteries, but when my standard batteries are ready for replacement I may consider Lithium

dutsmiller · April 2020

I can confirm that the factory solar panel/controller is able to bring the lithium batteries up to a full charge. I installed the battleborns on Wednesday with a voltage of 13.3v, when I came back on Friday they were up over 14v and climbing. I also finished up mounting the battery monitor. I chose to put it in the closet using the void where the radio is mounted.

Tundra57 · April 2020

The display installation looks great.

Michael49 · April 2020

dutsmiller said:

I can confirm that the factory solar panel/controller is able to bring the lithium batteries up to a full charge. I installed the battleborns on Wednesday with a voltage of 13.3v, when I came back on Friday they were up over 14v and climbing. I also finished up mounting the battery monitor. I chose to put it in the closet using the void where the radio is mounted.

Very nice. I'll be installing my two Battleborns within the next few weeks. Right now I'm working on the Maxxair install

dutsmiller · April 2020

Michael49 said:
Very nice. I'll be installing my two Battleborns within the next few weeks. Right now I'm working on the Maxxair install

The Maxxair is on the list, mostly so I don't have to worry about rain anymore. In the interim I did the PWM mod to the stock Fantastic Fan, but still wish it were quieter.

Now I just need to figure out what to do with two very gently used AGMs (5 total weekends).

Cbusguy · April 2020

Put them on Facebook market place people will snatchem up

Michael49 · April 2020

Cbusguy said:

Put them on Facebook market place people will snatchem up

I wish. My 400 battery has been on FB marketplace for 2 wks without a bite. I think I have it listed at $150 and its about $600 new.

rbrtm · April 2020

I checked with the engineer at progressive and he said you can leave the original fuse block if you should upgrade the converter.The 55A converter comes with extra parts to cover many different installs. The converter itself is just a heavy duty A/C battery charger.

Cbusguy · April 2020

@Michael49 $600 for what exactly? Seems excessive. I have sold old solar panels, solar controllers and old agm batterys with zero problem and generally speaking same day pick ups on facebook market place.

dutsmiller · April 2020

@Cbusguy It seems like you have experience here. I have two of these:

https://comnet2.newmarcorp.com/instance1env99newmar/html/images/027391.pdf

They have been used for one season (5 weekend trips) with a Victron solar controller keeping the topped off in between. What do you think a fair price would be?

Cbusguy · April 2020

@Michael49 @dutsmiller what are the dates codes on the battery punched out at? If your trailer is an 18 then it could have been purchased in 17 making the battery's 3 years old......which is not good for your asking price.

If you can show them date codes in pics it helps. Then, if you chose to drop the price delete the prior ad and make no mention of price drop.

If they were factory original mention that and the fact they were only used 5 weekends, before the change and be prepared to answer why you changed them. I wouldn't mention what you changed too or any specifics on your current setup.

$150 seems like a good price.....maybe your problem is just timing with the virus.

dutsmiller · April 2020

We picked up our 2020 T@B 400 in May of 2019, the battery looks to be dated 080618.

Cbusguy · April 2020

I would write the ad something to the effect

A pair of harris 6 volt deep cycle batterys production date of 8/6/18 used 5 times in an RV over the 2019 season, Stored in a charged state over the winter. $150. contact me for more details.

Include pictures of the batterys being offered and if you can see the date codes include those.

Like I mentioned it could be the uncertainty with the virus right now, or the economy. I have changed some plan from definite to lets wait and see.

Michael49 · April 2020

Cbusguy said:

....

Like I mentioned it could be the uncertainty with the virus right now, or the economy....

I think that is the issue right now.

Michael49 · April 2020

Found this video of a Victron BMV-712 installed in a 2020 400! - is it someone here? So it's just negative battery cable to one end of the shunt and the other end of the shunt goes to the distribution block/busbar?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bq_eDTSzRsE

JeffroNC · April 2020

Has anyone installed Battleborns in a 2019 Tab 400? I have the plastic battery box.

Denny16 · April 2020

That Video is a RV UTuber, install on a 2020 TaB 400, which has this nice battery power distribution box included. Just follow his instructions, and you will be fine.

The 2018 and 2019 TaB 400, the battery was factory installed in the rear pax side of the under bunk storage area by the battery disconnect switch. In 2019 the battery plastic box was added to this same area as the 2018, which just had a single 12 VDC AGM, while the 2019 had two 6-volt AGMs in the plastic box. The procedure is the same as in the video, but no nice battery load distribution box.
cheers

Sharon_is_SAM · April 2020

@Michael49, yes, you are correct. Just run the cable from the other end of the shunt to the distribution block.

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