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2021 T@B 400 BD.....tongue/hitch weigh

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    VictoriaPVictoriaP Member Posts: 1,492
    Interesting. Not what I was taught, but I’m always willing to relearn, and if I was taught wrong, so be it. Plus, I’m pro-Lego as a teaching tool! 😁

    That said, assuming you’re correct, neither the calculations nor the fabulous Lego trailer explains at all why @Gbertrand‘s 400 was over 400 lbs when weighed at the coupler fresh from the factory with nothing added. Something is still off here. Given the history of these trailers (and others industry-wide) weighing more on the tongue than the specs say, let’s just say that until we have a decent sample size of actual weights, I will continue to regard the provided specs with a large degree of skepticism.

    Like I said earlier, I really would love to go around at a dealership weighing all the trailer tongues to get some solid data. Meanwhile, when the weather around here clears up, I’ll go try weighing my 320 both at the coupler and the jack to see what changes.
    2019 320s BD Lite, white with blue (“Haven”)
    2015 Subaru Outback 3.6r (unsafe 200lb tongue weight limit until 2020 models)
    2020 Subaru Outback XT
    Pacific NW
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    TomCanadaTomCanada Member Posts: 286
    Yeah @Gbertrand's measurements are still a worry.. those 10 gallons of water might translate into 15 pounds at the coupler, but that only gets him down to 385, which is still too high..  maybe something to do with the BDL package, or possibly other upgrades like microwave and 3-way fridge adding a few pounds here and there?  I'm having a hard time finding (still searching) for real life BDL weight vs standard 400..
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    VictoriaPVictoriaP Member Posts: 1,492
    TomCanada said:
    Yeah @Gbertrand's measurements are still a worry.. those 10 gallons of water might translate into 15 pounds at the coupler, but that only gets him down to 385, which is still too high..  maybe something to do with the BDL package, or possibly other upgrades like microwave and 3-way fridge adding a few pounds here and there?  I'm having a hard time finding (still searching) for real life BDL weight vs standard 400..
    The problem I have with blaming the water for even 15 lbs is the supposed location of the fresh tank. I’ve been told more than once that it’s way back, either at or just behind the axle, which if correct, means it has a negligible or even slightly negative effect on the tongue weight. The BD package is heavier at the tongue than the basic trailer, but again, that 430 lb reading he got is WAY higher than the BD weight provided by nüCamp earlier in this thread. A few pounds in options here and there do indeed add up, but most of those options are again close enough to the axle that I can’t see them adding up to nearly 100 pounds additional at the tongue. I just do not get this, it’s so weird.

    My advice doesn’t change regardless of what is going on here, though: Everyone should know their actual tongue weight, but it’s critical knowledge for those of us towing with the minimum suggested towing capacity vehicles (3500 lbs for the 320, 5000 for the 400) because tongue weights may vary from spec, and absolutely will vary with changes in cargo or things like propane. Weigh the tongue once you’re loaded for a trip, and repeat if you significantly change what you are carrying. You do not want to accidentally exceed your limit. 
    2019 320s BD Lite, white with blue (“Haven”)
    2015 Subaru Outback 3.6r (unsafe 200lb tongue weight limit until 2020 models)
    2020 Subaru Outback XT
    Pacific NW
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    TomCanadaTomCanada Member Posts: 286
    @VictoriaP thought about it some more - it would also be good to confirm that @Gbertrand had his trailer level when using the scale per the scale instructions you linked in an earlier post.  My not-very-scientific Lego trailer showed a 7% increase in tongue weight when switched from level to tongue-on-ground.  That translates to 30 pounds on the 400 and could account for the difference.. of course I have no idea how representative my model is, but at least it shows that level vs. tongue-on-ground makes a difference.. worth confirming - @Gbertrand maybe that could do it?  This wouldn't be seen as much with folks using the non-ideal jack location because there you have easy leveling built in care of the jack itself without the need of a pile of blocks to get level like you need under the coupler..
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    VictoriaPVictoriaP Member Posts: 1,492
    TomCanada said:
    @VictoriaP thought about it some more - it would also be good to confirm that @Gbertrand had his trailer level when using the scale per the scale instructions you linked in an earlier post.  My not-very-scientific Lego trailer showed a 7% increase in tongue weight when switched from level to tongue-on-ground.  That translates to 30 pounds on the 400 and could account for the difference.. of course I have no idea how representative my model is, but at least it shows that level vs. tongue-on-ground makes a difference.. worth confirming - @Gbertrand maybe that could do it?  This wouldn't be seen as much with folks using the non-ideal jack location because there you have easy leveling built in care of the jack itself without the need of a pile of blocks to get level like you need under the coupler..
    If you look closely at the first pic in this thread, it looks like wood or similar is stacked below the scale, which leads me to think it was level or close to it. But yes, to get a true, accurate tongue weight, the trailer must be level.
    2019 320s BD Lite, white with blue (“Haven”)
    2015 Subaru Outback 3.6r (unsafe 200lb tongue weight limit until 2020 models)
    2020 Subaru Outback XT
    Pacific NW
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    Denny16Denny16 Member Posts: 5,431
    I had out TaB400 tongue weighed with similar setup to OP, and it weighed in at 400 lbs, empty propane bottle, water tank 1/2 full, and. 45 lbs truck tool box in place of the original tub.  So his trailer with the axle moved forward should gave been closer to 400 lbs.  The Boondock setup weighed about the same ad the truck box on out TaB.  The axle is not going to add weight, so all else should be equal, and just 2021TaB should be Lee’s than ours was.
    cheers
    2018 TaB400 Custom Boondock,  Jeep Gladiator truck, Northern California Coast.
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    GbertrandGbertrand Member Posts: 39
    Good morning all......when I first posted this I never expected it to have such a heated debate 😀😀, I only posted as a heads up or reference, that said, to clear up a few questions that have been raised 
    1) both weights were taken with the trailer level 
    2) we have no microwave, and the small 12v fridge
    3) I have not weighed the trailer at the jack to compare as that is not what is connected to my truck but maybe something I may try for a reference 
    4) my scale was purchased new and came with a calibration certificate, plus on one of the times I stood on the ball hitch and it increased by 210 lbs......almost bang on my weight so I am fairly confident that the scale readings are close

    For us the dry/new weight was never a concern, just a reference I was, and still am only concerned with the loaded weight (especially as we added the 2 tubs), I purchased and used the scale to insure we packed the trailer correctly as to be able to tow it safely, so far as I stated at the start of the thread we have had no issues.

    I do 100% agree that GVW for the axels and tires need to be taken into consideration, and hopefully next spring I can get to a truck scale fully loaded and get some weights (if/when I do I will post them😀)

    Have a wonderful day 
     2021 T@B 400 BD, 2019 F-150, or 2011 F-150 (depending on conditions)

    Definition of Success….”moving from failure to failure without any loss of enthusiasm” (Winston Churchill)
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    TomCanadaTomCanada Member Posts: 286
    Thanks @Gbertrand! The mystery continues.. hopefully we will have a few more people able to weigh theirs for comparison.  If someone in the Toronto area wants to lend me their scale I'll check mine when I pick it up in the spring!
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    VictoriaPVictoriaP Member Posts: 1,492
    TomCanada said:
    Thanks @Gbertrand! The mystery continues.. hopefully we will have a few more people able to weigh theirs for comparison.  If someone in the Toronto area wants to lend me their scale I'll check mine when I pick it up in the spring!
    Tom, given that your vehicle is less capable than the suggested minimum to pull a 400, I strongly suggest spending the $100 or so to buy a tongue scale. I towed a 320 with a less than minimum vehicle for a time, and staying at or below the vehicle’s tongue weight limit took regular weighing prior to each trip. It’s a small investment to protect both your car and your trailer.
    2019 320s BD Lite, white with blue (“Haven”)
    2015 Subaru Outback 3.6r (unsafe 200lb tongue weight limit until 2020 models)
    2020 Subaru Outback XT
    Pacific NW
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    TomCanadaTomCanada Member Posts: 286
    Agreed - might just do that!  Also I need to research my car.. I've heard it said the Q5 actually has a 5000lb towing + 500lb tongue rating in Canada vs the more conservative 4400/440 south of the border - but I haven't actually seen that documented anywhere (yet)..
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