Does Alde switch to propane if less than 110 Volts?

m_lewis
m_lewis Member Posts: 76
in Heating/Plumbing & Winterizing
We are in an RV park with poor power, 105-118 Volts, sometimes dropping even lower. I awoke hearing the Alde burning Propane. We had power, just low voltage. Does the Alde automatically switch to gas when the AC power is lower than normal voltage?
2019 T@B 400 Boondock Lite, BMW X3
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  • pthomas745
    pthomas745 Administrator, Moderator Posts: 4,527
    Here is a thread that discusses this.  Does the Alde kick in propane when the electric isn't keeping up?

    2017 Outback
    Towed by 2014 Touareg TDi
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  • Denny16
    Denny16 Member Posts: 5,431
    Yes, if you have both the electric mode and propane mode settings on and prioritize electric mode, then when electric is not keeping up to maintain the temp set, it will turn on propane until the set temp is reached then it will shut off the propane and go back to electric mode.  It is a nice way to balance the system load.
    cheers
    2018 TaB400 Custom Boondock,  Jeep Gladiator truck, Northern California Coast.
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  • m_lewis
    m_lewis Member Posts: 76
    Both those answers were useful, but did not get to the ore question. 
    We know the Alde quits altogether if the 12V supply drops below a certain value, 11.6 VDC if memory serves.
    I wonder if it also switches the fuel source from electric to gas at a certain value, perhaps 110VAC. 
    I suppose it is possible that it can’t maintain the desired output at lower voltage, so that might result in a switchover. The AC heating elements are just resistors, so if the voltage drops, so would the current, along with the wattage. Thus, unable to “keep up”.
    2019 T@B 400 Boondock Lite, BMW X3
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  • Denny16
    Denny16 Member Posts: 5,431
    Yes, in that situation, if both heat sources are on with priority going to electric, it would switch over to gas heating or have both gas and the reduced electric running.  The electric is based more on Amps, than volts.  It looks for at least 15 amps to run the 1KW mode (single heating element) and at least 25-30 amps for the 2KW electric mode.  I hope this helps.
    Cheers
    2018 TaB400 Custom Boondock,  Jeep Gladiator truck, Northern California Coast.
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  • Sharon_is_SAM
    Sharon_is_SAM Member Posts: 10,061
    @m_lewis - did your EMS notify you of the reduced voltage?  I know low voltage is problematic for some electronics.  I thought an EMS would turn off all AC if low voltage occurs.
    Sharon / 2017 T@B CSS / 2015 Toyota Sienna Minivan / Westlake, Ohio
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  • ScottG
    ScottG Administrator Posts: 5,655
    m_lewis said:
    Both those answers were useful, but did not get to the ore question. 
    We know the Alde quits altogether if the 12V supply drops below a certain value, 11.6 VDC if memory serves.
    I wonder if it also switches the fuel source from electric to gas at a certain value, perhaps 110VAC. 
    I suppose it is possible that it can’t maintain the desired output at lower voltage, so that might result in a switchover. The AC heating elements are just resistors, so if the voltage drops, so would the current, along with the wattage. Thus, unable to “keep up”.
    I'm not sure if 120V operation actually shuts down under a low voltage condition, but I could see where the lower output of the electric elements would make it hard for them to keep up, and the propane burner would be engaged to pick up the slack.

    And, as Denny16 noted, that would only happen if the propane function (as well as electric) was turned on. 

    So, to answer your specific question, I don't believe there is a hard switchover mechanism, nor will the propane automatically engage if it is turned off.
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  • m_lewis
    m_lewis Member Posts: 76
    Sharon_is_SAM said:
    @m_lewis - did your EMS notify you of the reduced voltage?  I know low voltage is problematic for some electronics.  I thought an EMS would turn off all AC if low voltage occurs.
    Yes, it did. It is programmed to interrupt power when the AC is less than 109 V for 6 or more seconds. 
    It also interrupts whenever it drops below 100V for 3 or more cycles, or less than 10V for one entire cycle. 
    However, this park’s AC voltage was hovering around 110-112 most of the night, dropping into the cutout zone four times in 14 hours. I think the Alde perceived this as insufficient power and switched over to propane, even while the EMS was still in pass thru mode. I was looking for any info to support or negate my guess. 
    Even with everything turned off, this site’s power doesn’t get above 117VAC. When the 1kW load of the Alde is turned on, the voltage drops 5-7 volts, indicating excessive resistance somewhere in the feed. When I told the park manager about it, he treated me as some kind of perfectionist. (That is possibly true.) I mentioned that two campers were running their generators due to the bad power, but he seemed disinterested. 
    Needless to say, I won’t be paying them $112 per night ever again. 
    2019 T@B 400 Boondock Lite, BMW X3
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  • Michigan_Mike
    Michigan_Mike Member Posts: 2,858
    m_lewis said:
    Sharon_is_SAM said:
    @m_lewis - did your EMS notify you of the reduced voltage?  I know low voltage is problematic for some electronics.  I thought an EMS would turn off all AC if low voltage occurs.
    Yes, it did. It is programmed to interrupt power when the AC is less than 109 V for 6 or more seconds. 
    It also interrupts whenever it drops below 100V for 3 or more cycles, or less than 10V for one entire cycle. 
    However, this park’s AC voltage was hovering around 110-112 most of the night, dropping into the cutout zone four times in 14 hours. I think the Alde perceived this as insufficient power and switched over to propane, even while the EMS was still in pass thru mode. I was looking for any info to support or negate my guess. 
    Even with everything turned off, this site’s power doesn’t get above 117VAC. When the 1kW load of the Alde is turned on, the voltage drops 5-7 volts, indicating excessive resistance somewhere in the feed. When I told the park manager about it, he treated me as some kind of perfectionist. (That is possibly true.) I mentioned that two campers were running their generators due to the bad power, but he seemed disinterested. 
    Needless to say, I won’t be paying them $112 per night ever again. 
    Wow, $112 a night?  Where was this along the Monterrey Peninsula?  Sounds pretty luxurious and for that kind of money you could have skipped the setup and gotten a nice hotel room.  😂👍🏻

    We are just now heading back through Arizona after a trip up to Death Valley NP and about 200’ below sea level.   I won’t miss those prices!


    Mike - Elmira, Mi / 2019 T@B 400 / 2021 Chevy Silverado LTZ
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  • Sharon_is_SAM
    Sharon_is_SAM Member Posts: 10,061
    @m_lewis - I have read about private campgrounds that don’t keep their grid updated or expanded.  Pretty lame.  Mind sharing the name so other members know about the issue?
    Sharon / 2017 T@B CSS / 2015 Toyota Sienna Minivan / Westlake, Ohio
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  • m_lewis
    m_lewis Member Posts: 76
    Saddle Mountain Ranch in Carmel, CA
    2019 T@B 400 Boondock Lite, BMW X3
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  • N7SHG_Ham
    N7SHG_Ham Member Posts: 1,261
    How were you measuring the low voltage? My Progressive Industries EMS read voltage incorrectly from day one, that caused it to disconnect. I asked for and hot instructions on how to adjust the unit to read correctly and now it is within a couple volts of agreeing with a good DVM. Not saying the grid there didn't have an issue, but until I adjusted my EMS it was a pain.
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  • ChanW
    ChanW Member Posts: 3,165
    @N7SHG_Ham, are those instructions from Progressive in a form that you can share easily? Is it an internal pot adjustment? I don't have that problem, but I'd love to have the info for the future.
    Chan  -  near Buffalo NY
    2014 S Maxx
    2011 Tacoma 4cyl ... edit: 2022 Tacoma 6cyl - oh yeah! 

     A_Little_T@b'll_Do_Ya
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  • m_lewis
    m_lewis Member Posts: 76
    N7SHG_Ham said:
    How were you measuring the low voltage? M
    Three ways: an AC power monitor meter, a 6000 count DMM, and the EMS I built. It samples both the voltage and current waveforms 1024 times each cycle, calculates RMS voltage, RMS current,  power factor, frequency, watts and VA. It also has a multitude of MOVs for spike protection, line to neutral, line to ground, and neutral to ground, followed by a 30 amp line filter. It identifies all combinations of miswiring, as well as excessive neutral to ground voltage. It logs conditions and errors to an SD card and is interfaced to the camper’s MODBUS, that is Internet accessible. As all EMS devices should be.  ;-)

    2019 T@B 400 Boondock Lite, BMW X3
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  • N7SHG_Ham
    N7SHG_Ham Member Posts: 1,261
    @ChanW, yes internal variable resistor. I probably have the instructions someplace, as I recall PI have me an electronic document.
    2019 T@B 400 Boondock Lite
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