Alde heating...propane or electric operation best?

Gliddenwoods

If one has the option to operate the Alde heating system on propane or electric which one is most desirable? Considerations of efficiency or cost and/or best for the Alde equipment. Or does it not matter?

Sharon_is_SAM

If you are at a site with electricity, then use it - you paid for it.  If it is so cold that the TaB will not stay warm enough with electric only, add LPG.  When you boondock - no choice - LPG.  If you don’t have the Alde with the high altitude fix, then it is best to use electric if available.  I don’t think the Alde cares.  There are 2 separate electric elements and I believe the analog Alde control allowed you to rotate the elements.  I don’t think we have that choice with the digital display.  The Alde operates via 12 v, so even on LPG, you will be using battery power.

Gliddenwoods

If you have both available,and you are paying for both, which one is the best option?

Sharon_is_SAM

Best for what?  LPG gives you 5 kw of power, electric only 2 kw.  Faster to warm up using both.  I guess best option may be temperature dependent.  

MuttonChops

Like @Sharon_is_SAM said - - - if you have 120VAC service use it, save your propane for when you are away from the 'grid'.

Some folks feel propane is faster and hotter (H2O wise) but I don't really notice a difference.  You could do some testing and report back   Service Screen has temperature data, maybe a line chart of temp vs. time for each power source.

Another point; many folks say run electric & propane at the same time for maximum heat.  While the Digital Control Pad allows you to set both source to 'on' - - -
      The 3020 User Manual suggests the Alde Control Board will select the power source from what is available with priority to electrical  There is a "PRIO" Setting Screen in the manual but don't know if our units include that function (have never looked).

My point, suspect we get Electric or Gas even if digital Panel says both.

More for your testing & report ?

Sharon_is_SAM

@MuttonChops, I think the electric as a priority comes into play when both electric and LPG are selected on the display.  Then, when cabin temperatures drop a couple degrees below the set desired temp, the LPG kicks on in addition to the electric.  Once the temperature is reached, the priority is given to electric again as the LPG cuts out.

TNOutback

We have yet to notice a difference, though mind you that we haven’t camped much yet.  We boondocked with propane with temps in the 30s and at a campground with the Alde on electric, temps around 30 and didn’t notice any difference.

Bayliss

@Sharon_is_SAM and @MuttonChops, as already noted above, the 3020 manual, at p. 5 states: “The control system allows you to select LP Gas, electricity or both as the energy source.  If both electricity and gas are selected, the system gives priority to electrical power.”  Thus, it would appear that only electric will be used (as the energy source) when both are selected (and available.)

Maybe the LPG only kicks on if/when you lose 120V power?  If so, if you want the water to heat faster (assuming propane does in fact heat faster), then you would need to change the priority to LPG on the Alde control panel so that it is the energy source, regardless of whether you are also connected to shore power. 

Unfortunately, the Alde manual is not clear on this.

barcar

This may be a silly question, but I'll ask it anyway.  Is there ANY way to run my Alde heating system without propane by using a solar panel arrangement.  I know so little about solar or electricity in general it's frightening but am curious as to whether or not I can generate enough power from solar panels then convert it to AC to run my ALDE.  I understand that propane is an effective option, but in the event that sunlight was my only power source, what steps would I need to take?

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Cbusguy

Even on the 1000 watt alde electric setting it would take roughly 90 amps at 12 volts to do it.   Speaking ballpark you would need 1000 watts of solar and an appropriately sized solar controller and a couple of hundred amp hours of battery s

Doable but prohibitively expensive compared to the cost of propane 

Edit
Had a thought over lunch....if you are planning to use it over night you would need to multiply the number of hours times 90 and possibly times 2 for your battery chemistry choice.  I understand it would not normally be on 100 percent of the time.

For lead acid you would need 90 amps x 8 hours for overnight x2 because lead acid shouldn't be discharged below 50 percent.....you are looking at 1500 amp hours of battery.

Then how are you going to charge the batterys and run the furnace..   probably will need another 1000 watts in solar for a total of 2kwatts......   That is a house sized solar array. 

Just guesstimating it.....

TNOutback

Being in the camper each day, I can say my experience is that the Alde on propane is much more effective (and faster) than at least the 1kW setting on electric. I will get it up to temp on propane, then switch over to 1kW to “maintain”.  My household outlet where I have the camper plugged in cannot handle the 2kW setting.

DougH

I recently picked up a weed dragon to clear a large garden area before rototilling it. Just the 100,000 BTU unit. Worked well. But it got me thinking. I could heat up any camper to 72F in seconds with the link below for the 500kBTU unit.  Should be safe........ ummmm...... right?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00282LP34

nhmike

Better wear sunglasses.

jameskuzman

Our 400 has the Alde 3020 system, so that's my point of reference for all of this.

As others have said, if you don't have electric hookup, propane is your only option. 

If you have electric service, you may as well run it on electric. You can use the 1kW setting on a 15 amp circuit like you probably have at home. You can use the 2kW setting if you have a 20 or 30 amp circuit at a campground. 

You can run both electric and propane together. This can get the glycol up to temperature faster when you first turn it on. On mine, I can set the priority to either gas electric or gas. I almost always choose electric when plugged in. This setting determines which fuel source will be used first when the temperature falls below the set point and the thermostat calls for heat. If that source can't keep up, the secondary source kicks in. 

Some anecdotal observations: When we set up camp last November, the outdoor temperatures were in the low 20's and the temperature inside the 400 was in the low 30's. By using propane and 2kW electric, the inside of the camper was up to 65 degrees within two hours. At that point, I turned off the propane and the 2kW electric held a steady 65 over the next three days and nights with high winds and temperatures in the 20's and night and 40's during the day. 

In the driveway, 1kW electric holds 65 inside with temps in the low 30's outside. Once it gets colder, it needs propane to supplement to stay at 65. If it's sunny and I open the shades, even the high 20's are do-able on 1kW. 

jameskuzman

barcar said:

This may be a silly question, but I'll ask it anyway.  Is there ANY way to run my Alde heating system without propane by using a solar panel arrangement.  I know so little about solar or electricity in general it's frightening but am curious as to whether or not I can generate enough power from solar panels then convert it to AC to run my ALDE.  I understand that propane is an effective option, but in the event that sunlight was my only power source, what steps would I need to take?

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No silly questions here!

As @Cbusguy said, in theory, with enough solar panels and enough batteries, it's possible but impractical. Respectfully, @Cbusguy, I think there's a missing link in your equation: An inverter.     

The control panel of the Alde runs on 12VDC as do the exhaust venting fan (used only when the system is run on propane, drawing 0.4A) and the circulating pump (used to circulate glycol regardless of the fuel source, drawing 0.2A), but the heating elements run on 120VAC. That means you need shore power or a generator to power the converter, or you'd need to find a way to power the Alde from an inverter. The factory inverters are not set up to feed the Alde.

Please correct me if I'm wrong or have overlooked something. 

Jim

Cbusguy

@jameskuzman I didn't see any point in going to that detail.  I have an understanding of how the alde functions

I figured barcar was asking a theoretical question at a high level.   I responded with a theoretical response.   I figured he was fishing

Is it possible.....absolutely if you throw a big stack of cash at it.    

Had a laugh thinking  about using lithium, it would cost $20,000 to use battleborn battery's to do it and it would still weigh 600 pounds.    That is a bunch of propane

jameskuzman

Cbusguy said:

@jameskuzman I didn't see any point in going to that detail.  I have an understanding of how the alde functions

I figured barcar was asking a theoretical question at a high level.   I responded with a theoretical response.   I figured he was fishing

Is it possible.....absolutely if you throw a big stack of cash at it.    

Had a laugh thinking  about using lithium, it would cost $20,000 to use battleborn battery's to do it and it would still weigh 600 pounds.    That is a bunch of propane

Didn't mean to offend, and I now understand you were working from a theorheitcal perspective. And wow, yeah, I didn't even think about lithium! Some people though the 400 was a little tongue heavy before :-) 

DanManz

@jameskuzman - Thanks for sharing your experience with the Alde on various power sources.  Ours is very similar and I wondered if it was just us.  Since we got Pe@rl out of storage for the season, we've been driveway camping until the parks open back up.  I'm plugged into a 15A house circuit so I've been using the Alde on 1kW electricity.  The last two nights we were out, temps were at or just below freezing.  With the front window and roof vent just cracked, I could get the inside temp up to 59-60 degrees.  That's pretty nice sleeping temperature in our book.

All last season we boondocked at sites with no power.  When it got chilly we used propane.  My recall from last season was we could keep the interior around 65 degrees on propane when it would frost overnight.  I've never plugged into a 30A circuit so I don't really know what that would do for us.

All this is to say your explanation described performance just like ours.

Denny16

I have the TaB 400 plugged into 30 amp service, and the A.den works well at 2kw setting to keep the inside from getting below 50-60F, but I am not having 30 degree night temps, only in mid 40s.
cheers