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Alde Hot/Cold Drains

manyman297manyman297 Member Posts: 1,191
in Heating/Plumbing & Winterizing
I've seen it mentioned here before that you should open your hot and cold drains (and open a faucet) to your Alde unit after every camping trip. Seeing as they're under the bed panel in the 400, is this a realistic expectation or was I misinformed? I can do it...but do I HAVE to do it? 
2021 400 BD
2020 Tacoma TRD Off-Road 
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    pthomas745pthomas745 Moderator Posts: 3,670
    If you are talking about "maintaining the air cushion" here is a thread about it.  The easiest way would just be with the Yellow Pressure Relief Valve.

    2017 Outback
    Towed by 2014 Touareg TDi
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    manyman297manyman297 Member Posts: 1,191
    I honestly don’t know the reasoning for draining the hot and cold lines for the alde’s hot water reservoir other than reducing bacteria. Maybe I’ll just keep draining it. Kind of a pain but not impossible.
    2021 400 BD
    2020 Tacoma TRD Off-Road 
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    Sharon_is_SAMSharon_is_SAM Administrator Posts: 9,506
    Yes, you should empty the Alde and drain the plumbing lines to prevent bacterial growth.  Stagnant water can act like a Petri dish.
    Sharon / 2017 T@B CSS / 2015 Toyota Sienna Minivan / Westlake, Ohio
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    Tabaz Tabaz Member Posts: 2,357
    Another reason for draining the Alde boiler is to avoid corrosion at the welds that hold the hot and cold tubes to the boiler.  Especially the lower (cold) inlet.
    2016 Outback 320 with a 2010 Ford Expedition.
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    CJaxCJax Member Posts: 62
    @manyman297 we just picked up (finally) our 2021 400 Boondock and are about to leave our first camping trip with it. I know we need to drain our fresh water tank and our Alde unit. We didn't get a very good walkthrough from the dealer, just a video. I'm sure they would have been happy and patient and answered any questions, but we didn't know what we didn't know to ask!

    There are two drains in the bottom of the Nautilus panel (which appear to be color coded hot and cold), one freshwater drain underneath (the fresh tank low point?), and apparently another under the bed (referenced in this thread) that I haven't seen yet. Which or how many of these do I need to drain, and in what order?

    I've been searching the threads but all the models and years are different, so I'm trying to find some 2021 T@B 400 Boondock specific guidance here.

    Any help appreciated.

    Cheers,
    C
    2021 T@B 400 Boondock 'Valhalla'
    2018 Jeep Grand Cherokee Trailhawk V6
    veni, vidi, bibi capulus
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    Sharon_is_SAMSharon_is_SAM Administrator Posts: 9,506
    You need to drain the 2 low point drains at the bottom of the Nautilus.  Some folks have reported that is enough to drain the Alde tank, but to be sure, I would start with draining the Alde tank using the yellow flapper valve under the bed.  Open a hot water faucet to prevent any vacuum effect to assure drainage.  Then complete draining of the plumbing system by opening the low point drains.  You can drain the fresh tank at any point by just opening the drain.  If there is a lot of water, it may take a while.
    Sharon / 2017 T@B CSS / 2015 Toyota Sienna Minivan / Westlake, Ohio
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    CJaxCJax Member Posts: 62
    @Sharon_is_SAM Thank you! This forum is awesome.
    2021 T@B 400 Boondock 'Valhalla'
    2018 Jeep Grand Cherokee Trailhawk V6
    veni, vidi, bibi capulus
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    BridgerSunsetBridgerSunset Member Posts: 87
    Just a FYI @CJax - on my 2021 400 BD, there are 2 yellow-handled drain valves under the bed, which you may have found by now.   One drains water from the Alde Flo and one drains water from the Alde main boiler.  I haven't had mine long enough to know if the low point drain valves outside the Nautilus effectively drain the whole system, as mentioned before.  Or whether just draining one yellow-handled valve effectively drains both the Alde vessels.  See attached pic.



    2021 T@B 400 Boondock  - Chev Silverado 3500HD 6.6L - Toyota 4Runner 4.0L
    SW Montana USA


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    CJaxCJax Member Posts: 62
    Thanks @BridgerSunset! I now know where all 5 freshwater drains are. Main tank, hot and cold low points, Alde Flo and Alde Main.

    Now I'm on a quest to figure out which to engage when and for what reasons and in what order...

    Who would have thought that black and gray sewage would be simple and fresh water would be complicated...

    :-)


    2021 T@B 400 Boondock 'Valhalla'
    2018 Jeep Grand Cherokee Trailhawk V6
    veni, vidi, bibi capulus
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 834
    edited November 2021
    I have to say I'm very discouraged by the thought of having to lift up my MANY inches of additional mattresses and bedding at the end of every trip to flip the yellow valves. I just sold my 2019 400 and I LOVED how I could just reach in from the side panel outside and flip the yellow valves as I was packing up to leave.  I have a 2022 on order, so now with the Nautilus, I cant reach into that area now from the outside! How is this an improvement on the process?  I'm OCD when it comes to draining everything at the end of each trip, but I'm not going to be able to access that area now with mattresses and bedding in place.  Ugh! Am I missing something? Hopefully just opening the two low point drains will drain the Alde, but it never did on the 2019. I always had to open the two yellow valves, and the hot and cold low point valves.  Maybe the two low point valves would have eventually drained the two alde tanks too on the way home?
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 834
    I wonder if there would be any spot inside the Nautilus frame box (I haven't seen one up close yet other than on my friends 400) to put a hand port hole so that you could reach in from outside and reach those two yellow flip valves???? Obviously a trained person would have to do this, but if there is a spot that would accommodate a hole big enough to fit your hand into, it could be done.  
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    Denny16Denny16 Member Posts: 5,431
    edited November 2021
    No, I do not think there is room.  I can barley reach through the large opening, now occupied by the Nautilus, to reach the yellow valves.  That said, last time I drained my system, I used the low point drains, opened up a cold and hot water faucet (galley did both, one at a time) and seemed to get 95% of the water out of the Alde, when I opened the yellow flapper drain valve afterwards, very little water came out, and would not have caused a freezing problem if left in.  The hot water tanks also has an air check valve that will open when the water starts to drain out the low point drains, to aid in draining the hot water tank.

    Since you do not drink the hot water and should not cook with it either, anything growing in the small amount left can be flushed out next time you fill up.  I also leave the Alde Bypass set to bypass the Alde hot water tank.
    cheers
    2018 TaB400 Custom Boondock,  Jeep Gladiator truck, Northern California Coast.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 834
    edited November 2021
    Thanks Denny... very helpful to know you didn't get much water from the yellow valves after opening the low point drains. I will just accept that as good enough then and live peacefully with the Nautilus! 
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    Denny16Denny16 Member Posts: 5,431
    Sounds like a plan TabbyShack, happy camping…
    cheers
    2018 TaB400 Custom Boondock,  Jeep Gladiator truck, Northern California Coast.
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    manyman297manyman297 Member Posts: 1,191
    @TabbyShack Yeah, not being able to access these drains easily is a little annoying. I always leave the access panel under the bed unscrewed and we only have the stock mattress so it’s not too big of a deal to drain after every trip…but it still isn’t fun. 

    Next season I’ll need to measure how much water I’m getting out of the low point drains and see what is left after opening up the Alde drains. To my recollection I don’t think there was much coming out of the Alde drains after opening the low point drains. 
    2021 400 BD
    2020 Tacoma TRD Off-Road 
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    ScottGScottG Administrator Posts: 5,435
    edited November 2021
    Denny16 said:
    ...
    That said, last time I drained my system, I used the low point drains, opened up a cold and hot water faucet (galley did both, one at a time) and seemed to get 95% of the water out of the Alde, when I opened the yellow flapper drain valve afterwards, very little water came out, and would not have caused a freezing problem if left in. 
    ...
    manyman297 said:
    ...
    To my recollection I don’t think there was much coming out of the Alde drains after opening the low point drains. 
    Good points. Although it took me a while to figure it out, my Alde will also drain through the CW low point drain. The yellow flap valves are superfluous as drains, though they do serve an important second purpose as an automatic relief valve to protect the system from an over-pressure condition.

    Assuming later models are plumbed in the same manner--and it sounds like they probably are--there should be no need to open the yellow flap valves for routine system draining. 
    2015 T@B S

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    manyman297manyman297 Member Posts: 1,191
    @ScottG I think you’re right and come next season I’ll probably forgo opening those valves after every trip. Even if there’s some water in the hot water tank the heat should kill most bacteria and we don’t drink the water (especially hot water) from the tap.
    2021 400 BD
    2020 Tacoma TRD Off-Road 
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 834
    This is great news. I know that when I open the low point hot/cold valves water comes out (obviously) and when I flip up the yellow valves hot water comes out under pressure at first.  It sounds like though eventually and with the help of the trip home that most of the water from the alde will come out the hot/cold low point drains. 

    I actually have about 12" of heavy memory foam mattresses so lifting those along with the sheets blanket etc isn't going to be an option for me.  I will just have to move everything out at  the end of the season and flip the valves when I winterize just to make sure nothing is left in there. That's the best I can do,  but it sounds like it's fine not flipping them anyway! 
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    ScottGScottG Administrator Posts: 5,435
    When I first got my T@B I thought there was a check valve between the yellow flap valve and the CW low point drain (see photo below). I later learned that what I presumed was a check valve was just a similar-looking reducing adapter (the main plumbing is 1/2" PEX, but the Alde connects with 3/8" PEX).

    The plumbing in newer T@Bs is considerable more complex, but you should be able to figure out the draining patterns by tracing the piping in the Alde compartment. I'd bet a nickel the Alde's CW supply line ultimately leads back to the main CW low-point drain.


    2015 T@B S

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    Denny16Denny16 Member Posts: 5,431
    Yes, yes it does, just like at one time, all roads (in Europe) led to Rome…
    cheers
    2018 TaB400 Custom Boondock,  Jeep Gladiator truck, Northern California Coast.
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