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Are we dumb or is this poor "de-winterizing" service?

peterhautzingerpeterhautzinger Member Posts: 7
in Heating/Plumbing & Winterizing
We purchased a 2016 T@B last fall.  We are RV neophytes and thus have a lot to learn.  We took a couple of long weekend trips and then hired a local service to winterize the camper (we live in Western Colorado).  Hired the same service to "de-winterize" and assumed we were good to go and all systems would be running.  Took it out for our first weekend trip and could not get the Alde heater system to kick in and produce heat.  We tired both electric and propane, but simply could not get it to work.  Fortunately we'd brought along a space heater so we didn't freeze.  Next day broke out the various owner's manuals we've printed from the web but still couldn't figure out the problem.  Finally pulled up the bench seat to take a look at the tank and were stunned to see the expansion tank was totally empty; there was no glycol solution in there at all.  Note - upon arrival to our camp site 1.5 hours from home, we did notice a very odd smell coming from the shower area.  Upon inspection, there was no leak of anything noted, just a really bad smell.  Since we discovered the glycol tank empty, we believe the 2 are somehow connected.  However, again, there was no visual "leak" of anything.
We assumed a key part of "de-winterizing" would be re-filling the Alde with glycol and checking it was working, but that apparently did not happen  Are we dumb to have expected that to be done as part of the $200 we paid for "de-winterizing"?  What should we have expected?  What is a reasonable fee to pay and what work can one generally expect to have done?
2016 T@B 320; 2021 Hyundai Tucson Grand Junction, Colorado
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    AnOldURAnOldUR Member Posts: 1,303
    edited April 28
    The glycol level is not part of the winterizing or dewinterizing procedure. The hot and cold water system is separate from the glycol. That said, a good service department would have checked it.
    Stockton, New Jersey
    2020 nuCamp T@B 320S * Jeep Wrangler

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    pthomas745pthomas745 Moderator Posts: 3,705
    edited April 28
    The "smell coming from your shower" could very well be the tank is full.  Or...it could be the tank is completely empty, but without any water or tank treatment, the tank is now "fermenting" and causing an odor.  Put a gallon of water in the tank. Have a look at the various tank treatments available and add them to the tanks to help with breaking down the waste and preventing fermentation.
    Winterizing and dewinterizing is not really hard.  But, someone not familiar with the Tab could have pulled the glycol drain "plug" under the trailer thinking it was something to do with the low point drains.  Draining the glycol, as stated above by AnOldUR, is not part of the winterizing process.
    There are, sadly, endless stories of techs encountering the Tab and being totally blown away by the plumbing, the Alde, etc.  There are only 2 trailers with Aldes on the road in the US..Nucamps and Airstreams.  The simple precautions the Alde needs to winterize (setting the valves correctly, etc) may not be something that a tech has never seen before.  But..even "NuCamp Dealers" have been known to make all sorts of mistakes with the Alde plumbing, the glycol, etc.
    Your best defense is what you are trying to do.  There are tons and tons of good info on how to winterize, de-winterize, sanitize, glycol changes, and on and on.
    Here are the winterizing manuals posted here on the Forums.  Look over Winterizing 101 for your trailer.  Look it over while staring at the position of the valves and what they do.  Take pictures, ask questions, etc.  Lots of help available.
    Even if you don't do your own procedures, at the very least you will be able to point out what exactly needs to be done.  As in: don't pull that red plug in the drain under the trailer.
    2017 Outback
    Towed by 2014 Touareg TDi
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    Sharon_is_SAMSharon_is_SAM Administrator Posts: 9,530
    edited April 28
    The Alde is pretty unique relative to typical RV hot water tank systems.  So, it is important to take it somewhere that actually knows how the system works.  Sounds like they drained the glycol which should not have even emptied.  You need to refill it before you turn it on again.  Traditional Winterizing involves emptying the water from the plumbing system and then adding antifreeze to the water plumbing.
    Sharon / 2017 T@B CSS / 2015 Toyota Sienna Minivan / Westlake, Ohio
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    AnOldURAnOldUR Member Posts: 1,303
    Another thing is that if there is no water in the shower trap it can allow smells from the grey water tank to escape into the cabin.
    Stockton, New Jersey
    2020 nuCamp T@B 320S * Jeep Wrangler

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    peterhautzingerpeterhautzinger Member Posts: 7
    Thanks very much for the responses.  Extremely helpful. So we ought to fill the Alde expansion tank with a 60% distilled water 40% glycol mixture as per Alde manual, correct?
    2016 T@B 320; 2021 Hyundai Tucson Grand Junction, Colorado
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    Sharon_is_SAMSharon_is_SAM Administrator Posts: 9,530
    You need to know which glycol was used.  Was it the original Century (yellow/green) or the new Rhomar (green/blue).  You can’t mix the two.  Also, you said you pulled up the bench seat to check the expansion tank.  The Alde is under the bench, but the 2016 model tanks are located behind a wood panel.   https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/comment/130235#Comment_130235
    Sharon / 2017 T@B CSS / 2015 Toyota Sienna Minivan / Westlake, Ohio
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    peterhautzingerpeterhautzinger Member Posts: 7
     Thanks again; this link is very helpful as well. Yes, we were looking at the tank behind the wood panel at the very back. Since tank is empty, though, unsure how to tell what color the original glycol was. I found and ordered jug of “Truma Alde Glycol antifreeze” on Amazon last night, figuring since it was manufactured by Alde it ought to work, but there was no indication as to color…
    2016 T@B 320; 2021 Hyundai Tucson Grand Junction, Colorado
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    AnOldURAnOldUR Member Posts: 1,303
    edited April 29
    @peterhautzinger Maybe locating the glycol drain under the trailer and release a bit to check the color. Might be tricky to not make a mess. It's pretty safe to say that you have the older Century fluid, but not worth the risk of guessing. This might be a good time to drain and flush the system and add the newer Rhomar glycol.

    edit to add that it looks like you purchased the Alde/Rhomar brand. It would be best to verify what's in your system before topping off.

    Here's a picture to help identify the color you have and what the packaging could look like.
    Rhomar on left, Century on right ...


    Stockton, New Jersey
    2020 nuCamp T@B 320S * Jeep Wrangler

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    peterhautzingerpeterhautzinger Member Posts: 7
    Thanks again; photo is helpful. Will try to locate glycol drain under trailer today. 
    2016 T@B 320; 2021 Hyundai Tucson Grand Junction, Colorado
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    ScottGScottG Administrator Posts: 5,477
    edited April 29
    I agree with everything stated above. Note also that if the system was just gravity drained, quite a bit of glycol will remain trapped in the convector loops. You will probably need a little more than a gallon to replace what was lost, and unless you completely empty and flush the system you want to make sure you top up with the right glycol. On a 2016 this would be the Century (yellow) brand, UNLESS the previous owners had the system flushed and refilled with the Rohmer (green) when nuCamp made the switch a few years back. 
    If the system was completely drained--not likely if our incompetent winterizing hypothesis is correct--then you will need between two and three gallons of glycol to refill.  
    2015 T@B S

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