Progressive Industries EMS-HW30C install

hymie · May 2017

We decided on the PI surge protector after reading the many positive comments here. Hardwire was best option for us as I will never have to think about it again!!! If I can simplify setup on site- its a good thing

Logical location seemed to be in the electrical compartment (driver wheelwell). There was enough slack in the existing wiring to cut, reroute and use existing wire without having to add any.

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5021717/uploads/editor/eg/3aoxq6thiu8m.jpg

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5021717/uploads/editor/zu/l4l9j4tn7bcw.jpg

I wanted the monitor to be accessible but not out in the living area as the display would be very annoying at night. In order to get a good angle for viewing, I used a common framing 90 degree joist hanger and bent it to a reasonable angle. The monitor is attached using several velcro dots.

Excellent product- super easy to install.

Cheers- James

Ratkity · May 2017

Just FYI, the trailer bounces quite a bit. I had installed the same in my T@Bitha... worked GREAT. The caveat was that the screws holding down the wires inside wiggled loose and almost caused a major issue (it ended up that I accidentally discovered a problem doing something else). I think a tiny dab of blue loctite (sp) might be in order for each screw holding a wire.

I agree, it's a very easy thing to install! If you use a generator, remember you have to use a "loop-back" plug or you don't get any juice.

hymie · May 2017

@Ratkity Thank you! (waves to bartender- "Loctite all around please!") Also good note about "loop back". We are complete novices to the RV world.

jkjenn · May 2017

I like your install @hymie . FYI - the red light doesn't cast the same degree of brightness as the red if you desire to move it outside of the bench so it is more visible. I have mine low on the bench so that I can open the door and see it but it does not disturb me at night, at all.

RollingBnB · May 2017

Ratkity said:

Just FYI, the trailer bounces quite a bit. I had installed the same in my T@Bitha... worked GREAT. The caveat was that the screws holding down the wires inside wiggled loose and almost caused a major issue (it ended up that I accidentally discovered a problem doing something else). I think a tiny dab of blue loctite (sp) might be in order for each screw holding a wire.

I agree, it's a very easy thing to install! If you use a generator, remember you have to use a "loop-back" plug or you don't get any juice.

What is this loopback plug you speak of?

Ratkity · May 2017

RollingBnB said:

Ratkity said:

Just FYI, the trailer bounces quite a bit. I had installed the same in my T@Bitha... worked GREAT. The caveat was that the screws holding down the wires inside wiggled loose and almost caused a major issue (it ended up that I accidentally discovered a problem doing something else). I think a tiny dab of blue loctite (sp) might be in order for each screw holding a wire.

I agree, it's a very easy thing to install! If you use a generator, remember you have to use a "loop-back" plug or you don't get any juice.

What is this loopback plug you speak of?

Let me see if I can find the thread (I have way too many yellow starred ones). I made my plug, but you can buy it.

https://www.amazon.com/Progressive-Industries-GEN-PLUG-Generator-Plug/dp/B01BYSFQSW/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1493755596&sr=8-3-fkmr1&keywords=loopback+plug+generator

It just goes in the 20a receptacle and ties the ground and neutral.

Edit: 111 favs.. I can't believe I found it... ignore the end of the thread. I derailed it

http://tab-rv.vanillaforums.com/discussion/2437/honda-generator-neutral-bonding/p1

wizard1880 · May 2017

<rant>
This drives me crazy about generators these days -- they leave the neutral floating! This might work for tying a generator into a house, but just wreaks havoc everywhere else as we find. More and more electronics refuse to operate without a properly wired ground and neutral.

On my generator(s) I modified them internally to tie the ground and neutral together, just to solve the problem from the source so I don’t need any extra cables or accessories. You can have any power equipment shop make this modification too. It means you can no longer tie your generator into your home's electrical panel via a subpanel, but with a small camping generator, who's doing that anyway...

Of course a loopback plug is probably cheaper. I blame my OCD...
<end rant>

Ratkity · May 2017

wizard1880 said:

<rant>
This drives me crazy about generators these days -- they leave the neutral floating! This might work for tying a generator into a house, but just wreaks havoc everywhere else as we find. More and more electronics refuse to operate without a properly wired ground and neutral.

On my generator(s) I modified them internally to tie the ground and neutral together, just to solve the problem from the source so I don’t need any extra cables or accessories. You can have any power equipment shop make this modification too. It means you can no longer tie your generator into your home's electrical panel via a subpanel, but with a small camping generator, who's doing that anyway...

Of course a loopback plug is probably cheaper. I blame my OCD...
<end rant>

Dis is why youse da wizard!! I'm just lucky I don't lick electrical contacts to check for power output most of the time (don't get me started on 9V batteries lol). But there was this one time when I had a solar powered electric wire at the top of the fence to prevent a foster dog from scaling it... I shocked myself silly while mowing the back yard more times than the dog ever shocked himself (which was all of one time.. smart dog lol).

ericnliz · May 2017

@Ratkity, Perhaps you should have shown the dog how to mow the lawn!

Ratkity · May 2017

ericnliz said:

@Ratkity, Perhaps you should have shown the dog how to mow the lawn!

Believe me... if they or the cat had opposable thumbs, I'd be in trouble. They'd already graze grass and all dog owners know what happens next......

sqrpeg · January 2018

I opted for the EMS-HW30C as well, and just finished installing it today. After plugging it in, I was disappointed to discover that it emits a very noticeable (to me at least) 60Hz hum.

Those of you who also have this unit - what's your experience sound-wise?

jkjenn · January 2018

sqrpeg said:

I opted for the EMS-HW30C as well, and just finished installing it today. After plugging it in, I was disappointed to discover that it emits a very noticeable (to me at least) 60Hz hum.

Those of you who also have this unit - what's your experience sound-wise?

I thought the same thing, but I believe it is actually the converter. It won't him if you dry camp, by the way.

sqrpeg · January 2018

I thought the same thing, but I believe it is actually the converter.

In my specific case, the hum is definitely coming from the EMS and not the converter (confirmed using the Car Guys' "hose to the ear" method). I contacted Progressive Industries and they're sending me a "replacement relay", no questions asked. Will update when it arrives.

It won't hum if you dry camp, by the way.

Agreed

We're hoping to boondock most of the time. As lifelong tent campers we're not (yet) used to having all this tech around us, which is maybe why I'm a little hyperaware of the associated noises.

jkjenn · January 2018

sqrpeg said:

I thought the same thing, but I believe it is actually the converter.

In my specific case, the hum is definitely coming from the EMS and not the converter (confirmed using the Car Guys' "hose to the ear" method). I contacted Progressive Industries and they're sending me a "replacement relay", no questions asked. Will update when it arrive

Cool! Now I am curious...what is the "hose to ear" method? Maybe I will try it.

sqrpeg · January 2018

Back in the olden days

it was a low-tech method for locating vacuum leaks, etc., in a noisy engine compartment. One end of a rubber hose goes in your ear, other end pokes around ‘til you hopefully find something. Hardly useful now with today’s cars, but still handy in other situations.

jkjenn · January 2018

sqrpeg said:

Back in the olden days it was a low-tech method for locating vacuum leaks, etc., in a noisy engine compartment. One end of a rubber hose goes in your ear, other end pokes around ‘til you hopefully find something. Hardly useful now with today’s cars, but still handy in other situations.

Thanks! I will give it a try!

RollingBnB · January 2018

sqrpeg said:

I thought the same thing, but I believe it is actually the converter.

In my specific case, the hum is definitely coming from the EMS and not the converter (confirmed using the Car Guys' "hose to the ear" method). I contacted Progressive Industries and they're sending me a "replacement relay", no questions asked. Will update when it arrives.
It won't hum if you dry camp, by the way.
Agreed We're hoping to boondock most of the time. As lifelong tent campers we're not (yet) used to having all this tech around us, which is maybe why I'm a little hyperaware of the associated noises.

I had to replace the contactor in mine too. Still hums but not as bad. I put a rubber mat between the back of the unit and the wall

Ratkity · January 2018

If you use a generator, remember to have a loop-back plug ready since you have a permanent install of a surge protector. If you don't want to make one yourself (easy-peezy), then Progressive Industries makes one.

sqrpeg · January 2018

OK, I swapped in the new relay/contactor, which basically meant uninstalling/reinstalling the entire unit because the relay’s mounting screws are on the back of the box. Like in @RollingBnB’s case, it still hums but given the overall PITA-ness of doing the swap I’m convincing myself it’s a teeny bit quieter. And hey, I have a spare relay now!

@Ratkity – We’re generator-averse, but thanks anyway for the reminder about the floating neutral.

For anyone who comes across this thread during pre-purchase searches, this noisiness issue might be another thing to consider in your "mounted inside" vs "portable outside" decision-making.

jkjenn · February 2018

I wonder if it has anything to do with proximity to the converter?

Geo · February 2018

@sqrpeg , It is normal for a relay/contactor to hum. The contactor completes the electrical circuit by holding it closed with a powered coil from the control circuitry. Ours hums also, but not very loudly, you get used to it like white noise.

sqrpeg · February 2018

@jkjenn I guess there could be some sort of harmonic effect with the converter, or as @Geo said it might just be "normal" hum from the AC coil in the particular model/brand of contactor used in this EMS.

Either way it's not a biggie, I just try to avoid 60Hz background noise whenever possible.

Thanks everyone for your help!

gregndeb · February 2018

We installed our EMS unit last summer. I installed on the floor of our 320-CS. Since we don't have a shower, I installed the display over the ALDE control. The toughest part was routing the wire over the A/C. I routed the hole for the display, with an extra notch for the cable connector. While I was in there I also installed a 4-port USB outlet. I have heard the 60 Hz hum but never thought about it, until reading this thread. Perhaps mounting on the floor helped with the noise, but it's never been objectionable to either of us.

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5021717/uploads/editor/7n/if4q9zj1362u.jpg

jkjenn · February 2018

gregndeb said:

We installed our EMS unit last summer. I installed on the floor of our 320-CS. Since we don't have a shower, I installed the display over the ALDE control. The toughest part was routing the wire over the A/C. I routed the hole for the display, with an extra notch for the cable connector. While I was in there I also installed a 4-port USB outlet. I have heard the 60 Hz hum but never thought about it, until reading this thread. Perhaps mounting on the floor helped with the noise, but it's never been objectionable to either of us.

That looks great!

valkraider · March 25

I know this is an old thread, but I am resurrecting it because I just went through the effort to install the Progressive Industries hard wired EMS-HW30C

The sound is TERRIBLE - it is 45 decibels and the most annoying pitch. In such a small space, it's completely intolerable. I would really think twice about installing this thing in a Tab!

I sent the video to tech support and they told me it was normal, and they don't recommend installing it anywhere where the people will hear it - usually it should be installed in a "basement" of a larger RV where it won't be so close to the living space.

Here is the sound it makes: https://youtu.be/xvtGTyzG0Lg

This thing is coming out, and I will use a portable external surge protector instead. Ugh - the install was really hard.

valkraider · March 25

But on the positive note : I am super close to finishing a 3D print design for a cover for the remote display, so that the bright blinking light does not annoy people in the dark, but still allow a user to flip up the cover and see the codes if they want to. I will share the STL when I get it done.

Slackers · March 25

We installed the EMS-LCH30C (integrated display) in the same area. It doesn't make any noise.

valkraider · March 25

This is the quote from PI: "That is completely normal for these units to make a slight noise when the contactor is engaged. The location inside the RV is making it more noticeable versus most are installed in a basement area of an RV."

There is no way I would be able to sleep with that noise in the small space.

Everyone's mileage may vary!

Here is the 3D printable cover which I designed for the remote display:

https://www.printables.com/model/1243100-progressive-industries-display-cover

pthomas745 · March 25

Another episode of "People Designing Things For RV's Who Have Never Slept Even One Night In An RV".

valkraider · March 25

FWIW in my previous 31ft toy hauler, I could hear the relays in the power supply clicking and chortling in the compartment on the other side of the wall from our bed. They didn't keep me awake but it was noticeable even though it was 'in a basement" of sorts. So it's not *just* a small rig problem.

But it was also pronounced in the couple of class B campers we had as well. I wish I could sleep with ear plugs in...

What I would say is that if anyone is thinking of installing the hard-wired surge protectors, wire them and listen to them *before* you go into installing them into a tight space.

Maybe it doesn't bother you. But if it does, don't go through the work to do a nice tidy install in small spaces for no reason. My video linked to above will give you an idea of the sound that it may make. Again - your mileage will vary. Everyone is different.

Binghi · March 25

The hum in our hard-wired Hughes Power Watchdog EMS bugged me at night to the degree that I sometimes would go outside and pull the shore power connection at the pedestal to stop it.

Another issue with our hard-wired EMS that turned out to be more problematic was the lack of a bypass for shore power. Our EMS failed in the midst of a trip last year and we ended up boondocking several weeks to finish the trip. Turned off the refrigerator and used our ice chest. We now use a portable EMS.

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