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Adjusting drum brakes

db_cooper
db_cooper Member Posts: 748
in Trailer & Towing
Noticed in the T@B manual that it recommends to adjust the electric brake shoes after the first 100 or 200 miles.  Wondering if anyone has done this, and did you notice much need to adjust?

I plan on jacking it up and getting it done this weekend.  Only one trip so far with the brake controller in use, and the brakes felt pretty weak,  hoping they just need some adjustment.  Betting the previous owner didn't mess with them.  I did take a look under the tab, and it appears you don't even have to remove the little cover, there's two openings and one has a cover and the one where the star nut is located is open. 
2015 Max S Outback | 2010 Xterra  -- Retired
2022 Ford F350 Tremor |  2022 Cirrus 620



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Comments

  • Nomad
    Nomad Member Posts: 7,209
    edited March 2016
    From reading and watching some vids trying to solve my electric brake problem...It was mentioned that electric brakes have a different type of shoe or shoe material. Don't know if that affects adjustment or not. Thought I'd bring it up just in case. This vid is about magnet replacement but there's pics that show the brake pads, etc.
    http://www.etrailer.com/tv-demo_trailer_hub_magnet_replacement.aspx
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  • Ratkity
    Ratkity Member Posts: 3,770
    The only thing I know about manual vs electric brake adjustment (bleeding brakes on a Mercury Comet as a kid with Dad) - is that electric brakes use a piston to push the shoe against either the rotor (front) or drum (rear). The piston can be corroded and cleaned up. Watched the mechanic do for my Mustang when the right front brake wasn't engaging at all (made for a surprise stop after leaving the shop first go 'round). The only way to adjust the rear is to turn the drum to decrease the distance the self-adjusting shoe travels. This is very old school information and is probably outdated and/or specific for the vehicles we owned growing up. 
    2017 820R Retro Toy Hauler from 2015 Tabitha T@B from 2009 Reverse LG Teardrop (but a T@Bluver at heart)
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  • ScottG
    ScottG Administrator Posts: 5,655
    edited March 2016
    I did the adjustment last summer on my 2015 M@x S. The hardest part was contorting my head, hands, flashlight, and flat-blade screwdriver into position so I could see what I was doing. I do recall mine had a dust cap over the hole to access the star nut.

    It's hard to say if they needed much adjustment, as the technique involves increasing the tension to seat the shoes, and then backing it off achieve a certain amount of drag on the wheel. If you have the axle owners manual for your model, it should provide instructions. There are also several helpful videos on YouTube.

    If you tackle it, just be sure to jack and support the trailer properly. If you have a torsion axle, be sure to jack under the frame, NOT under the axle.

    Keep in mind that the adjustment of your brake controller may have as much to do with stopping power as the adjustment of the brakes themselves.
    2015 T@B Max S (320)
    2015 Nissan Frontier SV V6 4x4
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  • ChanW
    ChanW Member Posts: 3,165
    I've done it on our 2014. 

    The star nut is just like the "old time" cars that Ratkity remembers. 

    I took a piece of flat steel stock and bent it into an el shape to make it work better in the access hole.

    It's just as much of a pain as it was in the sixties... B-)
    Chan  -  near Buffalo NY
    2014 S Maxx
    2011 Tacoma 4cyl ... edit: 2022 Tacoma 6cyl - oh yeah! 

     A_Little_T@b'll_Do_Ya
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  • Allie
    Allie Member Posts: 194
    Ok, since this is about brakes, I have a question.  My brakes have chattered, for the lack of a better word.  It feels like I am on a washboard when the brakes are applied.  I've tried to ratchet down the brake controller, but then it seems like the SUV brakes are doing all the work.  Do I have the controller set to high or is there something wrong with the brakes?
    Allie
    Condo A-Go-Go
    2018 Casita Spirit Dlx (KONDO)
    2017 Tacoma (AH GOGO)
    S. UTAH
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  • ScottG
    ScottG Administrator Posts: 5,655
    Allie, I don't know if this is relevant, but when I did the aforementioned brake adjustment, I noticed one of my wheels had a "tight spot" (i.e., a little additional drag) at one point in the rotation. I adjusted it as best I could, forgot about it, and went camping.

    While I haven't noticed any chattering, it seems like this could be a contributor, depending on the severity of the tight spot, and the level of drag to which the brakes are adjusted. I'm hoping someone with more experience might chime in here.

    I've had my own struggles with my controller (low-end Tekonsha Voyager) but they mostly involve intermittent lock-ups when coming to a stop at slow speeds. Probably a topic for another thread...
    2015 T@B Max S (320)
    2015 Nissan Frontier SV V6 4x4
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  • Photomom
    Photomom Member Posts: 2,217
    Are there instructions for doing this adjustment in the T@B manual? Is this something a person who doesn't even top up her wiper fluid could do?
    John and Henrietta, Late 2016 T@B S Max in Western New York
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  • db_cooper
    db_cooper Member Posts: 748
    Photomom said:
    Are there instructions for doing this adjustment in the T@B manual? Is this something a person who doesn't even top up her wiper fluid could do?
    The adjustment is straightforward.  But you have to jack up the trailer and crawl under it to reach the adjustment star nut. Obviously this part is dangerous if you don't do it right.  Plenty of videos on you tube of the procedure.
    2015 Max S Outback | 2010 Xterra  -- Retired
    2022 Ford F350 Tremor |  2022 Cirrus 620



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  • ChanW
    ChanW Member Posts: 3,165
    Photomom, the most difficult thing about it is feeling inside that little access hole with a screwdriver and finding the star wheel to crank on.

    Then you lever the screwdriver against the star wheel to turn it. I couldn't tell you which way to turn it, cuz I always do it by trial and error. Turn it for a while until it starts to bind the brake up, then I know I'm turning it the right way. B-) And the star nut on the other wheel needs to turn the opposite way.

    I don't know how easy it would be for someone who hasn't actually seen inside the brakes to see how the whole thing works.

    You could search online for a diagram of drum brake star wheel adjustment which might give you an idea of what you'd be doing.
    Chan  -  near Buffalo NY
    2014 S Maxx
    2011 Tacoma 4cyl ... edit: 2022 Tacoma 6cyl - oh yeah! 

     A_Little_T@b'll_Do_Ya
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  • Photomom
    Photomom Member Posts: 2,217
    Would the T@B dealer do that for me?
    John and Henrietta, Late 2016 T@B S Max in Western New York
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  • ScottG
    ScottG Administrator Posts: 5,655
    Photomom, I don't think the general T@B manual will cover this. However, when you get your T@B it should come with a whole stack of literature covering all the different components (which are all made by different manufacturers). One of those should be for the axle/wheel assembly--look in there for adjustment schedule and instructions. (And as others noted, the internet is also helpful.)

    And, yes, I'm sure your dealer or local trailer service place could do this for you. Just make sure they are aware NOT to jack under the torsion axle. I've gathered from previous posts on this forum that not all shops are aware of this (or choose to ignore it).

    That's why I'm a veteran do-it-yourselfer. I can bust up my own axle for free! ;-)
    2015 T@B Max S (320)
    2015 Nissan Frontier SV V6 4x4
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  • Photomom
    Photomom Member Posts: 2,217
    Jacking up the trailer and lying under it is NOT going to happen.
    John and Henrietta, Late 2016 T@B S Max in Western New York
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  • Nerdy1
    Nerdy1 Member Posts: 60
    We got Taboo at X-mas, and there was no information on the axel/wheel assembly or how to make any type of adjustment in the bag information provided by Little Guy.  We have an Outback, and we just got back from our first big trip and noticed that by the time we got home, the electric brakes are grabbing pretty hard (and a bit noisey).  So now we are trying to figure out how to adjust either the brakes or the controller.  
    T@BOO - 2016 Outback Max S in New Mexico towed by 2016 Toyota Highlander (soon)
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  • db_cooper
    db_cooper Member Posts: 748
    So I jacked up our 2015 Outback S today, and spun each wheel.  There was a bit of scraping each revolution, so I determined that was enough drag without messing with any adjustment.  With our Prodigy controller  I thought having it set on 9 with boost level 2 was giving good braking, but it seemed like a high setting.  Based on the fact I can tell the brakes are close without too much drag,  I'm going to leave alone.  I'll check again after a few trips,  but it ain't broke, so I ain't fixin' it.
    2015 Max S Outback | 2010 Xterra  -- Retired
    2022 Ford F350 Tremor |  2022 Cirrus 620



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  • ScottG
    ScottG Administrator Posts: 5,655
    Here's a .pdf of the manual that came with my 2015 M@x-S:

    http://www.al-ko.us/download/ALKO_Owner_Man._2-7K__05_2014.pdf

    The AL-KO web site where I found this offers several additional documents that may also be of use:

    http://www.al-ko.us/1629.htm

    I don't know to what extent the axles vary on different years and models. If in doubt, take a look around, as I suspect the make and model is indicated somewhere on the axle or elsewhere on the trailer.


    2015 T@B Max S (320)
    2015 Nissan Frontier SV V6 4x4
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  • Verna
    Verna Member Posts: 6,876
    I do not understand working on brakes--that's my disclaimer. I agree with ScottG to read the Al-Co manual, and if you don't "do" brakes then take your T@B to a professional. It's cheaper to start with a professional rather than takes pieces and parts to the professional later. I take my T@B to a reputable utility trailer company for any axle, brake or bearing grease work. 

    Www.etrailer.com would be another good resorce for videos. 
    Verna, Columbus, IN
    2021 T@B 320S  Boondock “The T@B”
    Towed by a white 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 Supercab, 3.5L V6 Ecoboost “The Truck”
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  • TaB2go
    TaB2go Member Posts: 57
    Help! We are in Denver Co., Sunday eve. nothing open, of course, not that i was expecting there to be, breaks dragging, drums sizzling HOT. Was able to get a site for the night, there is a Camping World here, not to far away, service opens at 8 am Mon. . Called and left a message for Ed to call us back.
        Out for our from Mich. to some N.P. , Az. , Cal. ect. tour, for the first time ever west, in our new max s,2016. Has anyone else had this problem.
         Also lots of break dust, on the rims, so expect shoe damage.   Thanks   jim

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  • jkjenn
    jkjenn Member Posts: 6,417
    TaB2go said:
    Help! We are in Denver Co., Sunday eve. nothing open, of course, not that i was expecting there to be, breaks dragging, drums sizzling HOT. Was able to get a site for the night, there is a Camping World here, not to far away, service opens at 8 am Mon. . Called and left a message for Ed to call us back.
        Out for our from Mich. to some N.P. , Az. , Cal. ect. tour, for the first time ever west, in our new max s,2016. Has anyone else had this problem.
         Also lots of break dust, on the rims, so expect shoe damage.   Thanks   jim

    If it's the CW in Golden, they helped me in 2014 when I was out there. You might do better just showing up. It's harder to say try don't have time when you are face to face. Also, there are T@b dealers in Longmont & Colorado Springs.

    2021 T@b 320 Boondock "Mattie Ross" | 2021 T@b Nights: 239 | Total nights in a T@b 455 | 2022 Jeep Grand Cherokee L Overland | T@b owner since 2014

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  • ChanW
    ChanW Member Posts: 3,165
    edited April 2016
    Sizzling hot means too hot, and could warp the drums and wreck the grease seals.

    What electric brake controller is in your TV? It may be adjusted/set up improperly, or you might have a short in your wiring, forcing the brakes on continuously.

    Either way, you shouldn't tow it until you've released the brakes.
    Chan  -  near Buffalo NY
    2014 S Maxx
    2011 Tacoma 4cyl ... edit: 2022 Tacoma 6cyl - oh yeah! 

     A_Little_T@b'll_Do_Ya
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  • TaB2go
    TaB2go Member Posts: 57
    It,s a Tekonsha brake controller. Was at CW today, open, but only parts and stuff,no service department. We are in Denver, we will show up in am, and see what they find. Hope maybe Ed will call us back. Kinda stuck, this far from dealer and home. Reservations made in a few spots, best laid plans, as they say. Hope we can be on our way soon, with out to much more trouble. Hope this can be resolved as warranty, and not out of pocket. :o
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  • TaB2go
    TaB2go Member Posts: 57
    Was total electric break failure. Was able to have them totally replaced, drums, backing plates, ect. Ed ( lg ) gave us a Dealer in Denver, but they were booked up for over a week. This led to three more referrals that were unable to help. Finally was referred to Ainsworth  semi trailer repair. They were able to take care of us right away and completed the work within a few hours.  Showed me every part that was bad and worn badly after only 1,000 mi. on the trailer, and also talked with Ed at lg who approved the repair. Finally, are able to get on with our trip west. We are in Utah, checking out the NP's here and points west. J&E, Mich. :)
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  • Nomad
    Nomad Member Posts: 7,209
    Cool - Glad you got them fixed. Let us know how your trip now goes. Let us know what the weather's like at the Utah NPs.
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  • TaB2go
    TaB2go Member Posts: 57
    NO. Never ride the breaks, break controller was checked out by the shop foreman, who was the best at what he does, checked all electrical out with amp meters, ect. before anything else was done. These guys were real pros at elec. breaks. He told, and showed  me what he was doing every step of the repair process. I've have  been pulling trailers for some fifty years, never had this happen before. Just guess it was my time for something to go wrong. The end. 
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  • Ratkity
    Ratkity Member Posts: 3,770
    TaB2go - I'm so glad you not only got to someone who could immediately help, but was extremely skilled in his profession and willing to go the extra length to show you each step of the process. A rare find indeed, especially during a mysterious and frustrating issue. I'm happy you are back on the road again!!! Deep breath, reboot and restart! May the rest of your journey be eventful in positive, exciting ways (pictures required!) ;)
    2017 820R Retro Toy Hauler from 2015 Tabitha T@B from 2009 Reverse LG Teardrop (but a T@Bluver at heart)
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  • ChanW
    ChanW Member Posts: 3,165
    Interesting that a "semi trailer repair" shop was versed in electric brake controllers for RVs.

    Lucky you!
    Chan  -  near Buffalo NY
    2014 S Maxx
    2011 Tacoma 4cyl ... edit: 2022 Tacoma 6cyl - oh yeah! 

     A_Little_T@b'll_Do_Ya
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  • Nomad
    Nomad Member Posts: 7,209
    From my experience in electric brake land, the only ones that know anything are trailer companies - including semi-trailer companies. Forget camper repair places, forget brake repair outfits, forget auto parts stores - search for trailer companies.
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  • TaB2go
    TaB2go Member Posts: 57
    Thanks PXL. Was a great relief to us, as 4 phone calls and a flat out you're out of luck till May 25 from CW, with out hesitation. These guys do all kinds of breaks, Elec., Hyd.. There were semis, boats, and two campers, this place was huge. They were the only ones who took emergencies, no one else wanted to help an out of towner with a problem. So we were really happy, to be fixed and on our way. We would be so happy to provide photos if we knew how. The comp. is a real challenge to both of us at this point. Sorry. Heading to Zion in AM. Not heating up, so seam to be OK. Prob. way to much info.  :o       

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  • Ratkity
    Ratkity Member Posts: 3,770
    OOooooo I love Zion!!! I think it needs to be a T@B University basic course requirement on how to post pictures.... I'll send in my suggestions to the dean. =)
    2017 820R Retro Toy Hauler from 2015 Tabitha T@B from 2009 Reverse LG Teardrop (but a T@Bluver at heart)
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