New T@B picked up... Subaru Outback going up for sale

BillRedding · July 2017

"I would love to have stayed with Subaru, but they utterly refuse to create a vehicle that can tow. " -- LauraRey

As said earlier, me too!

I think their symmetrical AWD system is great -- IIRC, it's similar to an Audi Quattro but costing way less than an Audi! But as you noted, Subaru refuses (and yes, they've been told about this shortcoming) to do anything about Subarus being poor towers. I'm guessing it's because they don't want to sacrifice and mpg stats. And as I said, their commercials are all about getting outdoors...but not being able to take an RV with you while doing that doesn't make sense. To me...despite all their cute advertising.

I mean really, ask those Subaru dogs (especially the driver, who I assume was the Outback's owner) who could only tow a trailer with 2 canoes on it! ;-)

So, if you want a great AWD vehicle, may do some moderate off-road stuff (given the 8.7" of ground clearance limitations), NOT be pulling a decent-size travel-trailer -- AND get excellent mpg for a quality-made AWD vehicle -- then Subaru deserves to be on a Short List.

As said, it WAS on mine once, but when I needed to be able to tow 5K lbs, I had to give Subaru up. :-(

-- BR

BillRedding · July 2017

Trailpixie (?),

Yeah...but who probably knows their vehicles better: Subaru or us? So when they said it's not rated to tow more than 2700 lbs, then don't tow more than 2700lbs, period.

And I'd not want to be at that max towing 2700 lbs, either, at least not often. And then there's the CVT issue...

So if I may paraphrase what Eric said earlier on p.1 of this thread, people who disregard a maker's specs do so at their own risk...

Be safe...and get something rated for 1000-2000 lbs MORE than the max (completely loaded weight) you intend to tow.

I think the important points for this thread have been made.

Good luck all, and Happy Towing!

-- BR

T@Balong · July 2017

We've been very pleased with our Jeep Cherokee, 3.2L six cylinder, 270hp with factory tow package, 4500 pound tow rating. We started out our T@B life with a Subaru Forester and would echo the above comments. Would have loved to keep the Forester but found it lacking to pull the T@B. I discovered an extra bonus to the Cherokee.............on a recent 3000 mile road trip without the T@B, we averaged 34mpg. Very pleased with that!

Ratkity · July 2017

@T@Balong 34 mpg!! Wow.

Jannon · July 2017

Bought a 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee, pick it up today! V8 5.7L Hemi with Factory Tow package...that should pull my beloved T@B up any mountain in Colorado!

ericnliz · July 2017

@Trailpixie "P.S. Americans like to overbuild everything." At least it doesn't fall apart! There's a reason we overbuild things...they last!

Oh, and by the way, when I leave to go campin', I usually go over prepared as well!

Ratkity · July 2017

Jannon said:

Bought a 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee, pick it up today! V8 5.7L Hemi with Factory Tow package...that should pull my beloved T@B up any mountain in Colorado!

PICTURES!! Congrats

BillRedding · July 2017

"Bought a 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee, pick it up today! V8 5.7L Hemi with Factory Tow package...that should pull my beloved T@B up any mountain in Colorado!" -- Jannon

Yes, it probably will! There will be some loss of power though (3-4% ?? loss every 1000ft for naturally-aspirated engines) the higher one goes in elevation (turbo engines do better, but they ALSO have some loss), but otherwise the Grand Cherokee (GC) is a worthy vehicle, not only for towing your T@B but also going off-road, as the GC (or a "regular" Cherokee 4x4 Trailhawk) can handle most of the scenic mountain trails & passes up there in CO.

Not sure you could make it through ALL the passes/trails towing a T@B though...not because the GC isn't up to it but because some of those trails have steep/difficult sections to navigate, and some (like Black Bear Pass) you'd never make the switchbacks towing ANYTHING as you have very little real estate on those switchbacks even turning a vehicle alone!

An "Outback" version (decent ground clearance & 15" tires, especially with heavy-duty A/T tires) of the T@B 320 would do these trails, but again the tight switchbacks would be the "bottleneck" and stop you right there. And you can't BACK UP (some trails are one-way only, like Black Bear Pass) -- and NO way to pass anyone anyway as there's no room -- so anyone even breaking-down on a trail causes a real problem for recovering the disabled vehicle & clearing the pass. You really can't be towing anything AT ALL.

But you can park the T@B at one of the many very nice State Parks/Campgrounds there in CO and go "trailing" in your GC...I suggest these mountain trails/passes if you want do do some off-roading in your GC:

-- Switzerland Trail (a more "sedate" trail)
-- Webster & Red Cone Pass (steep in sections and drop-offs in places right next to the "road")
-- Imogene Pass
-- Black Bear Pass (a bit scary at times as it's steep and has tiny (& sharp!) switchbacks)
-- Engineer Pass
-- Mosquito Pass
...and others.

Note: Most of these are 12,000-13,000+ ft. in elevation, so oxygen is a bit thin up there -- for both YOU and your vehicle's engine -- but the views are fantastic. Go to YouTube and look at people's videos of doing these trails/passes...

The only trail *I* would not attempt in a Grand Cherokee (or "regular" Cherokee 4x4 Trailhawk) even by itself (not towing anything) is the Rubicon Trail (in CA near Lake Tahoe), unless I took ALL the easy/novice "bypasses" on it to avoid the REALLY serious sections. Even taking the "easy" sections, however, I'd expect my Cherokee to get at least SOME minor trail-damage in the process of doing the Rubicon (but hopefully no moderate trail-damage!).

There's also the "White Rim Road" (Grand Canyon area) you could take...I THINK towing a small trailer IS possible, but don't recall. The White Rim is about a 71 (?) mile trail and there ARE some camping spots along it, but (IIRC) you need to make reservations way in advance to GET one. If not, since there's no "unauthorized" overnight camping allowed (again, IIRC), you have to make the 71-mile trek in one day -- not a lot of fun rushing it like that.

Anyway, with your GC and T@B, you CAN do lots of these off-road places even if not some of them. For another example, "Lion's Back" (Moab, UT) would be one your GC could do but NOT with T@B attached: Even if you made it UP Lion's Back with your T@B, you couldn't do the tight "u-turn" at the top to get back down! ;-)

But, I may be wrong? Here are some jeeps - including a GC -- doing Lion's Back...maybe one towing a T@B COULD make it? ;-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7pqLRpUB4U

So...I hope you now feel highly encouraged to "Go anywhere/do anything" in your Jeep GC -- and sometimes, even towing your T@B! :-)

Happy Travels,

-- BR

Ratkity · July 2017

OMG @BillRedding is a JEEPER!! Another bonafide jeep person. Careful, I heard it's a contagious illness. Sister's bf has it. I think others on this forum have it, but only occasionally come out and jeep-speak.

Jannon · July 2017

Great stuff BR!

I was a hardcore keeper, with a done up Wrangler...for 8.8 rear axle, fulmy locked and lots of other upgrades!

I do miss it...but perhaps I can get the Grand in a few trails...just no rock climbing!

jason330i · July 2017

I had two subarus, both had problems, was about to get a third (special ordered but because of a manufacturing defect, did not buy). I really wanted to like Subaru, but their reliability is not what it once was.

My feelings on towing the T@b 320 is that you should only use a tow vehicle that is capable of towing 3500 lbs or more.

And one downside to towing with a gas turbo4, is that when towing, you may find yourself always in boost. Which could reduce your MPG to less then an equivalent V6.

gregndeb · July 2017

We were about to trade our 2012 Forester for a new Outback with the boxer 6. Then I couldn't get comfortable in the seats. Later we also discovered the Subary could only handle 150-odd lbs. of tongue weight. Not enough for a T@B. We ended up with a 2017 Highlander. LE-Plus gets the 4500 lb tow capability. Toyota factory hitch went on easily, but the Toyota wiring didn't include 7-pin electrical. After getting that (along with a switching high-amp 12V at the 7-pin) it works well. Mileage without the trailer is equivalent to the old 4-cyl Forester. (22-24 hwy). Towing on the highway, keeping under 65 MPH yielded 14.5mpg, in the mountains of Colorado yielded 16.something. It seems to be a good fit between power and economy.

BillRedding · July 2017

@gregndeb: Yes, my Short List (back then in March of 2016) was pared-down to 2 mid-size SUVs (new, not used): The 2016 Honda Pilot and the 2016 Toyota Highlander.

As for Subaru, I had leased a 2014 Crosstrek XV for 3 years (2013-2016) and as mentioned earlier, would have stayed with Subaru in 2016 if they had one that could tow my required 5000lbs. They didn't, so I got a Pilot. And the 2016 Pilot's "intelligent" AWD system may be as good (or better than?) the VERY good Subaru AWD system. So it worked out for me...

I needed 5000lbs because I "move myself" when I relocate (I move every 4 years on average, either in-town, in-state or to another state) and so needed a tow-vehicle that'd handle the largest cargo trailer U-Haul has (6x12) -- which is a HEAVY trailer even empty! And have some "headroom" left over vs. being at (or over!) maximum weight-towing capacity.

As we've often said here, "If possible, get a bit more towing capacity than you need."

I did.

But of course, an added "bonus" in getting the Pilot is it'll also tow a small TT as well! :-)

Wouldn't go larger than a T@B 400 though...or else I'd need to replace the Pilot!

BTW, interesting you mentioned Subaru SEATS! My Crosstrek's seats were the MOST uncomfortable seats I have had in recent memory: In town I never noticed anything, but on my occasional long road trips (despite the great gas mileage my Crosstrek got) after only an hour or so my thighs started bothering me! Never had that on long trips with my previous 1995 Nissan 200SX-SE, 2006 Honda CRV LX, or now with my 2016 Pilot EX-L AWD.

So besides TOWING capacity, Subaru needs to address its SEATS!

-- BR

BillRedding · July 2017

@LauraRey: One other thing...

About your Honda Ridgeline: It's probably a "better tower" (a bit more durable) than my Pilot. Although I'm only guessing, I say that because it's an educated guess based on the differences between the Ridgeline and Pilot.

The Ridgeline has something like 83 (?) differently-designed/beefed-up chassis parts (plus larger wheel bearings) which the Pilot chassis does NOT have. So people who say "The Ridgeline is just a Pilot with a truck bed" are simply ignorant. Yes, there's MUCH in common with a Pilot looks-wise outside (the front), inside (the dash) and engine, but underneath -- the chassis -- is a different story.

Happy Travels with your Ridgeline & T@B,

-- BR

larrygon · July 2017

This is an interesting video from 2014. At the 2:04 mark show control on water while drifting!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FikQjS2KQAA

Ratkity · July 2017

These are profession drivers though... what happens when the panicked driver gets behind the wheel?

Or me???

ericnliz · July 2017

Agree with @Ratkity, professional driver, and under controlled circumstances. How often would THAT happen to any of US?

Jannon · July 2017

Great video...notice not a hill or inclined road in sight

Samrollseyes · July 2017

Admittedly, I'm a newbie but I am a die hard Subaru fan and bought my 2016 Outback 4 cylinder with the express purpose of being able to tow SMALL trailers. This includes utility and travel trailers. My research on my car states the weight must be under 2700 pounds and a tongue weight max 200 lb. I limited my trailer search to trailers under 2000 lb and tongue weight of less than 180 lb. The T@B S I bought met those criteria. Yes, my mileage suffers but so far the Suby seems to tolerate the load well. I just returned from Grand Teton National Park with no issues. Same when camping near Yellowstone. I keep my speed to 60 mph, unless climbing; I adjust accordingly. I'm ok with people passing me and do make use of pullout when I snag a long line of cars (5-6). I realise I'm not in Colorado pass altitude but I climb from 4800 ft to about 7000 ft.
As for all the Jeep TV fans- go for it! My friends just bought a Jeep for that purpose. Yes, they have a higher rated tow maximum (5000 lb), but I'm not towing that much.
If anything changes with my beloved Suby, I will certainly keep you posted but don't fear the Suby!

Sharon_is_SAM · July 2017

I believe the nuCamp stated tongue weights do not include propane and battery. Have you weighed your Tab tongue?

KBaggins1 · July 2017

Everybody is talking like the T@B is this huge heavy trailer. It is not. I can push it around our shed with one hand. A tongue weight of less than 200 lbs and a manufactured weight of who nows? Around 1500 to 1800 lbs? You can tow it with just about anything. And people have towed it with just about everything. It is where you tow that determines your needs. Flat landers can use anything , winter use 4 wd drive, up and down long high hills you want a turbo motor or a v8. And whatever you buy it needs to be proven reliable. The wind resistance that a T@B generates at speed is very high. We have a boat and trailer that weighs 1000 lbs more than a T@B and we get better mileage towing it compared to the T@B. The top of the boat sits well below the roofline of the 2009 Pilot we have, while the roof of the T@B sits above the roof of the Pilot.The sloping tail of the T@B generates a lot of turbulance. This is why you don't hear people bragging about the great mileage they get at 70 mph.

Jannon · July 2017

Yes, the weight of 20lb propane tank fill (if u have that and it's full) and battery is over 200lbs tongue weight. I do feel the Subaru would have towed it ok if it was just periodic trips and I kept the weight down. Thought about putting on a 5lb propane tank. That said, I'm planning to go on the road for a year in mountains areas I am certain I'd damage the tranny...as well, I didn't feel safe... pulling into traffic with small on ramps would be a significant concern. That and it took double the gas to get to/from Santa Fe from Denver and it's mostly flat.

I say enjoy the Outback and I'm sure you'll be fine. Enjoy the T@B....such a great setup!

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New T@B picked up... Subaru Outback going up for sale

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