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Time to Say Hello & another 320 is on Order

MuttonChops
MuttonChops Member Posts: 1,935
in Introductions

Hello,

Have been following this forum for several months and found the range of topics with informed member discussions/answers very helpful as I begin the 'travel trailer new buyer' learning curve. This is one of the best User Forums around . . . interesting, polite, informative, and mostly on-topic discussions. The forum was a factor in my selecting the TAB 320 S.

Thanks to all contributing members.

My camping days were many years ago. A combination of tent and back of pick-up truck camping for young family weekend adventures or fall deer hunts. Then we got the boating bug and shifted to trailer sailboats and finally to an in-the-water recreational tug style 6-Knot “getting there is the adventure” boat. With 30 some years of boating on boats that had basic RV systems (electrical, plumbing, heat, cooking, refrigeration) am feeling confident the transition to travel trailer adventures will go smoothly. Plus I've even got a few years of trailer towing experience . . . enough to know 'surge brakes' are a pain, proportional controlled electric brakes a blessing.

A deposit was placed yesterday on a 320 S with pitched axle, 15-inch wheels, and the boondock platform. Hope to hear factory confirmation before the holiday and am planning for a mid-March delivery. Almost purchased an on-the-lot 320 S Boondock. Decided on an order to get the Alde 3020 (high altitude mode included) as most of my western state adventures will be near or above 3,500 feet. Ordering also allowed getting just the boondock package items of most value to me. . . . function over styling.

Like so many members have noted on their own trailer searches I started by researching/viewing A-Frame products, was surprised on seeing a TAB, then shocked on seeing the MSRP, so continued a wide and long search for smaller size light weight trailers. As the search progressed the 320 and 400 remained on my short list. Other brands came and went while TAB remained with only the order of which one is best for me changing (frequently).

Having towed boats in the past it was important for me that all possible travel trailers be well below my tow vehicle maximum rating for CGVR, Trailer GVW, tongue weight, frontal area resistance when fully loaded for camping.

Many of the forum threads are discussions about selecting/using a tow vehicle that places the tow vehicle near, at or above it's rated limits using just trailer dry weight data. That is a scary approach.

RV Safety & Education Foundation, [RVSEF] has real world rig weight data that suggests 50% of the travel trailer rigs on the road today are overloaded on at least one specification; CGVR, TV rear axle, trailer axle, or tongue being the most common problems. All impact vehicle life and performance and can be a real safety issue in an emergency. RVSEF web-site is rvsafety.com

Below analysis was done for each of the trailer brands/models on my short list. 320 was of course the lightest but even then TV rear axle loading is pretty high. I don't expect a weight distribution hitch will be needed but have budgeted on rear axle helper springs if TV leveling is needed. Was also surprised how quickly the TV cargo weight increased as more 'might need' items get thrown into the TV. All the other short list trailers were similar to the TAB 400 numbers . . . not that much heavier for their increased volume.

After all the dealership visits, web research, and personal analysis which more and more became a method to convince myself the higher MSRP would be worth it the final decision came down to . . .

Quietly sitting/being in a 320 S. Working my mind & body through a daily routine, do I feel cramped or not? Then I discovered if my shoes are off I Can Stand Up Straight (within a small range of space) and all of a sudden the 320 felt right.

Very hopeful I've made the right selection for me (most adventures will be solo).

Am over budget, But if I don't spend it the kids will . . . . .

TV with 320 and 400 Views



Possible Air Flow

Possible Frontal Drag


Home base will be Washington State.

Bye for now.



'18 320 S,  pitched axle, 3020HE; PNW based
TV: '17 Colorado V6 Z71 4x4, Tow Package, GM Brake Controller
TV: '25 Canyon AT4
Adventures:  58   Nights:  405  Towing Miles 50,180
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Comments

  • Smullis7
    Smullis7 Member Posts: 221

    Welcome!

    Sheila and the Mullis Pups (Winston, Morgan, Leroy & Dakota)
    M@bel M@y, my 2017 T@B Outback Max S (silver w/black trim), towed by Maude Myrtle, my 2016 Jeep Rubicon Hardrock.



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  • ericnliz
    ericnliz Member Posts: 4,437
    @MuttonChops, First of all...WELCOME! Like the name "Mutton Chops", made me laugh as I had several high school friends that had them at the time. You should have your trailer in time to join us for the 2nd annual Washington State East Meets West Rally at Lincoln Rock. You can pull up the page if you go to the left hand "Categories" & scroll down to Events & News. Browse through & you'll find the highlighted page to the Lincoln Rock site. Not sure what is left available at this time, as some ares filled up quickly. Sounds like you don't mind "boondocking" & last I checked, there were quite a few spots remaining in the "tent" (dry camping) area. There is water & restrooms available there & they are pretty spacious sites adjacent to the river. You folks are more than welcome to join us if the time frame fits your schedule. Last year was a blast & this year looks even better. At any rate, again, welcome!  :)
    2016 T@B MAX S-aka: WolfT@B
    TV: 2006 Chevy Avalanche LT Z71 aka: WhiteWolf, or 1972 Chevy Custom10 P/U aka: SnarlingWolf
    Spokane, Wa.
    Eric aka: Lone Wolf  


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  • MuttonChops
    MuttonChops Member Posts: 1,935

    @ericnliz, Thanks for the reminder on the Lincoln Rock meet. Have booked a site on A-Loop. For late May lack of electrical hook-up should not be a “we really need A/C” crisis.


    '18 320 S,  pitched axle, 3020HE; PNW based
    TV: '17 Colorado V6 Z71 4x4, Tow Package, GM Brake Controller
    TV: '25 Canyon AT4
    Adventures:  58   Nights:  405  Towing Miles 50,180
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  • Sharon_is_SAM
    Sharon_is_SAM Member Posts: 10,061
    MuttonChops welcome!  It is always interesting to see how someone arrives at a TaB decision.  Many are sold on the cute factor and jump in with both feet.  Some ponder every scenario wanting to make a perfect decision.  Looks like you used science!  I am sure no one here has presented 2D Airflow diagrams before - I love it and look forward to more!  You are going to love your TaB!
    Sharon / 2017 T@B CSS / 2015 Toyota Sienna Minivan / Westlake, Ohio
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  • dragonsdofly
    dragonsdofly Member Posts: 1,927
    @MuttonChops, welcome to the forum, the t@b family and congratulations on your trailer. Adventures await. And not least of all, happy t@bbing!
    2017 t@b sofitel(Dr@gonsFly)TV 2015 Silverado 2500hd(Behemoth). Wyandotte, Michigan.
    Draco dormiens numquam titilandus.
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  • rkj__
    rkj__ Member Posts: 641
    edited December 2017
    Welcome, and congratulations.  

    I love this post.  Are you a mechanical engineer?  I enjoyed your methodical and scientific approach to trailer selection.  


    2016 T@b 320 CS-S - 2018 GMC Sierra - St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada
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  • Ratkity
    Ratkity Member Posts: 3,770
    Wow! I enjoyed your scientific observations as well. I have the GMC Canyon with tow package. My T@Bitha has another home and I tow a toy hauler - complete with weight distribution and anti-sway.  It also weighs 5400# loaded with an intentionally heavy tongue weight.

    During cold winter days, I pine for the Alde system. It never failed to get me warm and even get a little too warm at times with minimal effort and battery consumption.

    I am sure you made an excellent decision and will find that you nearly forget the 320 is there! Remember that as you absentmindedly head for the drive-thru lol.

    Congratulations! I hope to hear more of your adventures in the future and, of course, all the purchases (Amazon Prime) you make prior to the arrival of your new camper.
    2017 820R Retro Toy Hauler from 2015 Tabitha T@B from 2009 Reverse LG Teardrop (but a T@Bluver at heart)
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  • ericnliz
    ericnliz Member Posts: 4,437
    AND....What better reason? ;):rofl:
    2016 T@B MAX S-aka: WolfT@B
    TV: 2006 Chevy Avalanche LT Z71 aka: WhiteWolf, or 1972 Chevy Custom10 P/U aka: SnarlingWolf
    Spokane, Wa.
    Eric aka: Lone Wolf  


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  • MuttonChops
    MuttonChops Member Posts: 1,935
    rkj__ said:
     Are you a mechanical engineer?
    Nope, not a mechanical engineer.  Was technical trained and worked as a manufacturing engineer.   Real 'design' engineers mechanical/electrical are at another level of knowledge and imagination.
    '18 320 S,  pitched axle, 3020HE; PNW based
    TV: '17 Colorado V6 Z71 4x4, Tow Package, GM Brake Controller
    TV: '25 Canyon AT4
    Adventures:  58   Nights:  405  Towing Miles 50,180
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  • tabiphile
    tabiphile Member Posts: 470
    Although tongue in cheek, RKJ may have been brutally forthcoming with his assessment. I also lean towards analytical so what your drag analysis made me think about is how that difference in drag coefficient actually translates. The obvious affect of drag coefficient is the affect on gas mileage. So....making some assumptions:
    Let's say that a typical camper will haul their trailer 5,000 miles a year...
    Let's say that your Colorado will average 18 mpg while towing (not likely)
    Let's say the Colorado would average 12 mpg pulling the Falcon.
    Assuming $3.00 per gallon gas, you will spend about $830 per year hauling the T@B and $1,250 per year hauling the Falcon.
    Cut to the chase, the lower gas usage towing the T@B will pay back in a bit over 21 years........... assuming a $20,000 Falcon and a $29,000 320...(I'm guessing more?)
    There will be less stress on your truck hauling the T@B but arguably the truck is more than capable of handling the TLF-20....
    The draw of the T@B is very strong.

     
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  • MuttonChops
    MuttonChops Member Posts: 1,935
    @tabiphile, Yep just doing a $$$ comparison based on the different possible MPG impacts brings us to a very long return on investment for the T@B.

    I'll have to work on increasing the towing miles per year.  :)

    On the plus side once the purchase price impact/shock is over the monthly cash flow will be lower operating the lighter smaller unit.   And it will be far easier to seek out those secondary forest service roads towing 15-feet instead of 20'something.

    The human mind seems to work fine ignoring some facts while focusing on others.
    '18 320 S,  pitched axle, 3020HE; PNW based
    TV: '17 Colorado V6 Z71 4x4, Tow Package, GM Brake Controller
    TV: '25 Canyon AT4
    Adventures:  58   Nights:  405  Towing Miles 50,180
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  • Homebodyatheart
    Homebodyatheart Member Posts: 2,516
    @MuttonChops last year this time L@dybug was on order, and I was carefully shopping for necessities and a few toys. I’ve used almost everything, except for emergency gear. Thus year I’m pretty happy with what I have going, so that in itself is a huge savings!  =)
    2017 T@B 320 Max S silver and cherry red, L@dybug ("Bug" aka my esc@pe pod), TV 2015 Toyota Highlander aka Big Red
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  • tabiphile
    tabiphile Member Posts: 470
    MuttonChops said:
    On the plus side once the purchase price impact/shock is over the monthly cash flow will be lower operating the lighter smaller unit.   And it will be far easier to seek out those secondary forest service roads towing 15-feet instead of 20'something.

    The human mind seems to work fine ignoring some facts while focusing on others.

    Given that you do have an appropriate TV with 4 wheel drive (not AWD without a low range) and the benefit of a higher ground clearance than the typical wagon/mini van...you will be able to carefully get to places that most folks need to avoid..
    WRT to tow length, a few extra feet do not make a bit of difference except when you are backing up. The shorter rig will test your backing skills. When towing, as long as you are paying attention, wherever your truck gets through your trailer will follow...as long as you don't put the wheels off the road. It's pretty unsettling to see your trailer tipping off the road.
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  • 2DogsPawd
    2DogsPawd Member Posts: 6
    I thought I was bad... I look at everything when searching. Spent a year or so researching the RPOD... and then right before I went to drop a deposit... I saw these and backed up a minute. I love people who think about their purchase and how it will work for them. It's a lot of money to not be sure or to have buyers remorse.
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  • pthomas745
    pthomas745 Administrator, Moderator Posts: 4,527
    Wow, love the air flow graphics!  There was a thread a few months ago when we needed wind tunnel data...looks like you came close.  Where did the airflow data and relative drag charts originate?
    2017 Outback
    Towed by 2014 Touareg TDi
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  • MuttonChops
    MuttonChops Member Posts: 1,935
    @pthomas745.  Glad you enjoyed the air flow graphics.  Those were created with a free on-line simulation program at www.flowillustrator.com  the program makes a bunch of assumptions so the results are an indicator of what might be happening real world - - is fun to play with.

    Drag chart is my creation.  The primary equation is the standard Drag Equation (see Wikipedia) that uses a drag coefficient based on an object's shape and the frontal area of the object.  Frontal area is easy to calculate but for drag coefficient I had to make/use several assumptions.  I also factored in weight and then normalized the data to a simple trailer area & weight so the chart takeaways are:
      - -  Higher speed has a huge impact on drag (as everyone knows)
      - -  Relative difference between trailer models/makes can be seen
    '18 320 S,  pitched axle, 3020HE; PNW based
    TV: '17 Colorado V6 Z71 4x4, Tow Package, GM Brake Controller
    TV: '25 Canyon AT4
    Adventures:  58   Nights:  405  Towing Miles 50,180
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  • pthomas745
    pthomas745 Administrator, Moderator Posts: 4,527
    @MuttonChops, thank you very much for description of the graphs and charts.
    2017 Outback
    Towed by 2014 Touareg TDi
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  • dragonsdofly
    dragonsdofly Member Posts: 1,927
    @2DogsPawd, which model are you looking at? 320 or 400? If 320, then S, CS, or Boondock? Or hybrid with some of this and a little of that? Whatever you might decide, please look closely at build quality, then at product development and most of all, customer service. I personally don't think anyone builds their product better, is as quickly innovative or takes care of their customers better. When we attended Ucamp 17 last summer in Sugarcreek, Ohio (birthplace of all t@bs since 2010) we were welcomed with open arms, and immediately enveloped by this ever so unique family. It feels like that, family. You can buy cheaper products, but IMHO, non better.
    2017 t@b sofitel(Dr@gonsFly)TV 2015 Silverado 2500hd(Behemoth). Wyandotte, Michigan.
    Draco dormiens numquam titilandus.
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  • 2DogsPawd
    2DogsPawd Member Posts: 6
    320 -CS.. When I initially started my Rpod LOVE.. I found their amazing face book page. It is an amazing family and although  I have since made the decision to go another direcrion I still read it. Its nice to see a comoradari and people so willing to help out one another. If there is an issue, there is someone willing to help out or offer up the how to. So that is important to me. I am also planning to make a visit to NuCamp factory in Ohio this summer as I pass thru the state on my way to Mi. I just saw one for sale here locally in this forum... and man the timing just isnt right for me now, but she is a beauty.  It wont take long for them to sell it. Thanks for the post I will be lurking through out and learning all i can. 

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  • dragonsdofly
    dragonsdofly Member Posts: 1,927
    @2DogsPawd, if you can time your trip to Sugarcreek for the week of July 16-21, the uCamp 18 gathering will be taking place.you can meet many dozens, if not hundreds of people who own t@gs and t@bs. Hear from them how they feel about the quality and customer service. See how all of them have adapted their rv to fit a personal style of camping and use. Those are the people who won't tell you what you want to hear, as a dealer might, but will tell you the truth. Good luck.
    2017 t@b sofitel(Dr@gonsFly)TV 2015 Silverado 2500hd(Behemoth). Wyandotte, Michigan.
    Draco dormiens numquam titilandus.
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  • Sharon_is_SAM
    Sharon_is_SAM Member Posts: 10,061
    @dragonsdofly - we did just that and talked to different owners, took pictures, and dreamed.  We were able to plan out exactly what we wanted as a result of those visits and this forum.
    Sharon / 2017 T@B CSS / 2015 Toyota Sienna Minivan / Westlake, Ohio
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  • dragonsdofly
    dragonsdofly Member Posts: 1,927
    @SAM, glad to hear that and good to know. I'm especially pleased you were able to act on what you learned, and the result was your t@b. Wonderful wishes for great adventures to you! Happy t@bbing!
    2017 t@b sofitel(Dr@gonsFly)TV 2015 Silverado 2500hd(Behemoth). Wyandotte, Michigan.
    Draco dormiens numquam titilandus.
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  • jkjenn
    jkjenn Member Posts: 6,417
    Congrats @MuttonChops !!

    2021 T@b 320 Boondock "Mattie Ross" | 2021 T@b Nights: 239 | Total nights in a T@b 455 | 2022 Jeep Grand Cherokee L Overland | T@b owner since 2014

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  • ericnliz
    ericnliz Member Posts: 4,437
    @MuttonChops, Congrats! Just in time to attend the Lincoln Rock Washington State East Meets West Rally!
    2016 T@B MAX S-aka: WolfT@B
    TV: 2006 Chevy Avalanche LT Z71 aka: WhiteWolf, or 1972 Chevy Custom10 P/U aka: SnarlingWolf
    Spokane, Wa.
    Eric aka: Lone Wolf  


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  • MuttonChops
    MuttonChops Member Posts: 1,935
    ericnliz said:
    Congrats! Just in time to attend the Lincoln Rock Washington State East Meets West Rally!
    Yes indeed.  Already have a spot, Loop-A annex.
    '18 320 S,  pitched axle, 3020HE; PNW based
    TV: '17 Colorado V6 Z71 4x4, Tow Package, GM Brake Controller
    TV: '25 Canyon AT4
    Adventures:  58   Nights:  405  Towing Miles 50,180
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  • ericnliz
    ericnliz Member Posts: 4,437
    I'll see you there...just follow your nose...BBQ Pit Barrel will be fired up! =)
    2016 T@B MAX S-aka: WolfT@B
    TV: 2006 Chevy Avalanche LT Z71 aka: WhiteWolf, or 1972 Chevy Custom10 P/U aka: SnarlingWolf
    Spokane, Wa.
    Eric aka: Lone Wolf  


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  • Homebodyatheart
    Homebodyatheart Member Posts: 2,516
    @MuttonChops Hooray on your new Tab 320S! Nothing feels better than bringing one home, except camping in it! According to my records there are three other sites in A Loop from the gathering, so you'll be surrounded by new friends. I know that they are all from the "wet side" of the mountains, too, so you will meet new people to camp with closer to home! We are looking forward to meeting you! And yes, the pit barrel will be a big draw!

    Another Forum motto...pictures or it didn't happen!  =)
    2017 T@B 320 Max S silver and cherry red, L@dybug ("Bug" aka my esc@pe pod), TV 2015 Toyota Highlander aka Big Red
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  • MuttonChops
    MuttonChops Member Posts: 1,935

    Well I'm a TAB Owner now.


    During walk through had one confusing item:

    • Water Pump ON, flush toilet, cold flush water

    • Water Pump OFF, flush toilet to depressurize water lines:

      . . . at first flush water is cold, then gets very hot, system not acting like it is depressurizing

    • Service Manager played with Alde valves and decided one of the winter by-pass was still in by-pass position.

    • don't understand how that could get hot water to the toilet but for now they say all is well

    Once home and able to really look around found one item that's different and one build defect.

    What was different; Tires are not Westlake ST 235/75R15 they are Milestar 235/75R15 XL. I'm not questioning NuCamp's selection of this XL tire as it exceeds the ST for maximum load and maximum speed rating. However, while the XL design includes extra tread-to-sidewall reinforcement it is not specifically designed for trailer use. Many ST tires advertise there increased UV light protection and less harsh ride (stress on trailer suspension). Guess there is more trailer forum tire discussion searching in my future.

    Build defect; inside access door on passenger wheel cabinet is not flush, hinges appear to be mounted incorrectly.



    The Adventure Begins . . . . . . . .

    '18 320 S,  pitched axle, 3020HE; PNW based
    TV: '17 Colorado V6 Z71 4x4, Tow Package, GM Brake Controller
    TV: '25 Canyon AT4
    Adventures:  58   Nights:  405  Towing Miles 50,180
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