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Converter Power Supply

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  • Bayliss
    Bayliss Member Posts: 1,496
    @DougH, @ScottG, @MuttonChops, @rh5555 and @Denny16, if you have not seen it before, you might find the first 23 minutes of this November 2019 video of interest regarding how the WFCO Power Center and Converter works.  It includes some basic troubleshooting and demonstrates how to change out the main board.

    It describes the operation of the WFCO 8955PEC model (55 amp), which they say is used on 85% of RVs, but it is essentially the same as the model used on T@B trailers.  I learned from it, so I figured it is worth sharing with others on the forum.  Additionally, it may help resolve some of the most recent questions above in this particular discussion thread.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_Qyur-fsAw&feature=emb_rel_end
    2019 T@B 320 S Boondock Lite; 2025 Toyota Tundra CrewMax 4x4
    (Alde: 3020; Refrig: Isotherm Cruise 65 Eleg; Battery: BB 100Ah LiFePO4; Solar: Renogy 220W Portable Suitcase w/ Victron SmartSolar MPPT 75/15 Controller; Victron BMV-712 Battery Monitor w/ Shunt; Pwr Cntr: PD-4135KW2B; EMS: PI-HW30C)
    Greg & Marlene (Tucson, AZ)


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  • DougH
    DougH Member Posts: 1,110
    edited August 2020
    @Bayliss.  It freaked me out when he started taking it apart at 12:30 after testing voltages on the DC side.  Thought it was still hot and he was about to zap himself.  A minute later you can see it was unplugged from shore power, they just cut that part for entertainment purposes.  And at 23:55 he unplugs the Wifco by pulling on the cord.  The horror!  Thanks for the informative video though.
    2021 Jeep Gladiator, 2021 tiny toy hauler, Austin TX
    Former steward of a 2017 T@B S Max

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  • AldebaranJill
    AldebaranJill Member Posts: 478
    edited September 2020
    If I too wanted to use an independent charger and disable the charging aspect of our converter/charger, reading all your comments gave me an idea - would appreciate thoughts.

    I removed my air conditioner, and therefore have a dedicated outlet and 20A circuit breaker that is available. 

    If I flip the 15A gcfi (and converter) breaker to off, then would this accomplish the task of disabling the WFCO battery charging (and outlets) but leave everything else functional (all DC and other AC (which for me is just fridge) so that my stand alone battery charger could charge without the WFCO interfering?
    2013 MAXX T@B towed by a 2015 Volvo S60 5 CYL AWD Sedan
    Seattle, WA -> Palm Springs, CA
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  • rh5555
    rh5555 Member Posts: 536
    @AldebaranJill, you are right that flipping the 120V breaker to the WFCO unit will make it disappear (electrically).  You can then plug a different charger to a live 120V socket.  You should also look at this thread regarding what to use as your new charger:  https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/10165/changing-converter/
    Roger and Sue Hill | 2020 T@B400 Boondock (Cryst@bel) | 2022 Land Rover Defender 110 - P400 | San Juan Island, WA
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  • AldebaranJill
    AldebaranJill Member Posts: 478
    rh5555 said:
    @AldebaranJill, you are right that flipping the 120V breaker
    to the WFCO unit will make it disappear (electrically).  You can then plug a different charger to a live 120V socket.  You should also look at this thread regarding what to use as your new charger:  https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/10165/changing-converter/

    Thank you! I will be using the Victron Blue Smart 15A charger as I have and love their solar controller.  
    2013 MAXX T@B towed by a 2015 Volvo S60 5 CYL AWD Sedan
    Seattle, WA -> Palm Springs, CA
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  • AldebaranJill
    AldebaranJill Member Posts: 478
    @rh5555 I have a battery disconnect switch I installed. The new charger bypasses this of course. When I plug into shore power, with the battery switch off, and the charger plugged into any outlet, this appears to work to prevent WFCO from charging battery but allows all AC and DC loads to function. So this config would perhaps be the best way to implement my stand alone charger? 
    2013 MAXX T@B towed by a 2015 Volvo S60 5 CYL AWD Sedan
    Seattle, WA -> Palm Springs, CA
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  • Sharon_is_SAM
    Sharon_is_SAM Member Posts: 10,061
    If you have a battery switch, can’t you just turn it off and charge the battery directly?  What’s the purpose of disabling the converter?
    Sharon / 2017 T@B CSS / 2015 Toyota Sienna Minivan / Westlake, Ohio
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  • Denny16
    Denny16 Member Posts: 5,431
    edited September 2020
    Correct, the 12VDC system will continue to work on battery off the battery only, so you will be putting a load on the battery whilst trying to charge it, but the DC systems will work.  

    If you are connected to the mains/shore power the WACO will provide 12VDC to the DC systems, taking the load off the battery.  While connected to 120 shore power, if all you want is to use Victron charger to just charge the battery, get a Marine A/B battery switch, and use it to switch your battery between the WATCO connection and the Victron charger.  This way the WACO powers the TaB, and the Victron will charge the battery quicker.  When towing or camping without shore power, just switch battery back to the WACO unit, and Bob’s your uncle... 
    cheers
    2018 TaB400 Custom Boondock,  Jeep Gladiator truck, Northern California Coast.
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  • AldebaranJill
    AldebaranJill Member Posts: 478
    Sharon_is_SAM said:
    If you have a battery switch, can’t you just turn it off and charge the battery directly?  What’s the purpose of disabling the converter?
    Duh LOL. I think you are 100% right. Doing this now. I am not at all sure why I went down this rabbit hole. 
    2013 MAXX T@B towed by a 2015 Volvo S60 5 CYL AWD Sedan
    Seattle, WA -> Palm Springs, CA
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  • Denny16
    Denny16 Member Posts: 5,431
    edited September 2020
    Replacing the single pole battery so witch with a A/B switch will allow you to leave the Victron charger and WACO hard wired to the battery.  But just turning off the existing battery switch will work also.
    cheers
    2018 TaB400 Custom Boondock,  Jeep Gladiator truck, Northern California Coast.
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  • AldebaranJill
    AldebaranJill Member Posts: 478
    Denny16 said:
    Correct, the 12VDC system will continue to work on battery off the battery only, so you will be putting a load on the battery whilst trying to charge it, but the DC systems will work.  

    If you are connected to the mains/shore power the WACO will provide 12VDC to the DC systems, taking the load off the battery.  While connected to 120 shore power, if all you want is to use Victron charger to just charge the battery, get a Marine A/B battery switch, and use it to switch your battery between the WATCO connection and the Victron charger.  This way the WACO powers the TaB, and the Victron will charge the battery quicker.  When towing or camping without shore power, just switch battery back to the WACO unit, and Bob’s your uncle... 
    cheers
    Roger that! This helps tremendously. I installed the cut off switch specifically to isolate my previous (Noco) charger in its repair mode, and then inexplicably somehow in the intervening years forgot about the switch despite its big red lever. I am simultaneously happy and concerned for my faculties. 🤪 
    2013 MAXX T@B towed by a 2015 Volvo S60 5 CYL AWD Sedan
    Seattle, WA -> Palm Springs, CA
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  • Denny16
    Denny16 Member Posts: 5,431
    I call it a senior moment seems to happen more often lately...  :o
    cheers
    2018 TaB400 Custom Boondock,  Jeep Gladiator truck, Northern California Coast.
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  • Sharon_is_SAM
    Sharon_is_SAM Member Posts: 10,061
    😂 Well, that was an easy fix @AldebaranJill!

    @Denny16, I don’t know about other smart chargers, but my Battery Tender brand specifically says not to apply a load during charging.  It must interfere with the charger moving from one stage to the next or maybe it just prolongs the charge.
    Sharon / 2017 T@B CSS / 2015 Toyota Sienna Minivan / Westlake, Ohio
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  • Denny16
    Denny16 Member Posts: 5,431
    Correct Sharon, most small stand alone chargers are designed to charge a disconnected (no load) battery.  A charger/converter like the WACO can do both.
    Charging a battery under a small load will also increase the time it takes to charge.  Depends on the charger design and the size of the load.
    cheers
    2018 TaB400 Custom Boondock,  Jeep Gladiator truck, Northern California Coast.
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  • stepheng
    stepheng Member Posts: 127
    Any update on this?  I also believe the converter does not have a relay and that the charger output is fed to the DC circuits when on shore power.
    I have the Victron SmartShunt installed in my 2022 320S BD and want to switch to Lithium.  I bought a Powerurus 100Ah battery and it did not work properly and I returned it for a refund.  I did discover however, the voltage drop issue as the wiring from the converter to the battery in the tub is 10 AWG.  I considered pulling 6 AWG wire but it would not be easy after looking at the routing with my inspection camera.
    Here is what I have decided to do:
    The Victron Blue Smart charger, the SmartShunt and the MPPT solar charge controller will be connected using the ve.network feature.
    When connected to shore power the relay will disconnect the WFCO and connect the battery to the Victron Charger.  The Victron charger will detect the voltage at the battery and compensate for the wiring voltage drop by increasing the output voltage of the charger so that the voltage at the battery is correct.  This is much simpler than re-wiring.  I have also confirmed that this approach should work with tech support at BattleBorn.
    This leads me to one other thought - why not just remove the converter from the WFCO and replace it with a good 12V switching regulated power supply that will fit in the cabinet.  This will provide good DC power when on shore power and voltage compensated charging for Lithium batteries with minimal wiring changes.
    Thoughts??

    2022 T@B 320S Boondock
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  • MuttonChops
    MuttonChops Member Posts: 1,924
    Bayliss said:
    . . . if you have not seen it before, you might find the first 23 minutes of this November 2019 video of interest regarding how the WFCO Power Center and Converter works.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_Qyur-fsAw&feature=emb_rel_end
    Slightly Off-Topic Ramblings

    Not sure if I watched that video back in 2020, did do so today.
    Good video Link, thanks @Bayliss

    Training Video reminds me of my Military Technician and IBM Field Service 'engineer' days as the world of electronics was shifting to "repair" meant PCB Swap . . . component level part replacement was a 'service depot' task and these days there aren't many repair depots left; everything is just thrown away, few repaired/refurbished PCB out there.

    The Video did have a couple of Spoken Word Surprises, information I don't recall reading in any of the WFCO literature found on the web:

    - 1 -      On initial power up the fan always runs (as we all have observed) and is normal operation
                  as the current draw circuit detects higher current from the charging of various capacitors
                  on the convertor PCB.

    - 2 -       Cabin 12VDC loads get priority.  Battery charging gets the left over.
                   i.e. If you have a 35-Amp WFCO, cabin load is 10-Amps, maximum available for
                   battery charging is 25-Amps.  Makes sense, no big deal, just had not seen it documented.

    BTW - - what the heck is drawing intermittent current while watching a DVD on shore power?
    Have noticed with the same lighting load, 12VDC TV on, Radio / DVD running, the WFCO fan randomly turns on/off . . . the current monitor circuit detecting an increase - - - yet, no specific 12VDC electrical load changes have occurred.

    Guess the 'current trip point' is very near the TV+lights+DVD current draw . . . WFCO's consumer quality vs. industrial or automotive quality component parts selection may also a factor . . .

    '18 320 S,  pitched axle, 3020HE; PNW based
    TV: '17 Colorado V6 Z71 4x4, Tow Package, GM Brake Controller
    TV: '25 Canyon AT4
    Adventures:  58   Nights:  405  Towing Miles 50,180
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