@DougH, @ScottG, @MuttonChops, @rh5555 and @Denny16, if you have not seen it before, you might find the first 23 minutes of this November 2019 video of interest regarding how the WFCO Power Center and Converter works. It includes some basic troubleshooting and demonstrates how to change out the main board.
It describes the operation of the WFCO 8955PEC model (55 amp), which they say is used on 85% of RVs, but it is essentially the same as the model used on T@B trailers. I learned from it, so I figured it is worth sharing with others on the forum. Additionally, it may help resolve some of the most recent questions above in this particular discussion thread.
@Bayliss. It freaked me out when he started taking it apart at 12:30 after testing voltages on the DC side. Thought it was still hot and he was about to zap himself. A minute later you can see it was unplugged from shore power, they just cut that part for entertainment purposes. And at 23:55 he unplugs the Wifco by pulling on the cord. The horror! Thanks for the informative video though.
2021 Jeep Gladiator, 2021 tiny toy hauler, Austin TX Former steward of a 2017 T@B S Max
If I too wanted to use an independent charger and disable the charging aspect of our converter/charger, reading all your comments gave me an idea - would appreciate thoughts.
I removed my air conditioner, and therefore have a dedicated outlet and 20A circuit breaker that is available.
If I flip the 15A gcfi (and converter) breaker to off, then would this accomplish the task of disabling the WFCO battery charging (and outlets) but leave everything else functional (all DC and other AC (which for me is just fridge) so that my stand alone battery charger could charge without the WFCO interfering?
2013 MAXX T@B towed by a 2015 Volvo S60 5 CYL AWD Sedan Seattle, WA
@rh5555 I have a battery disconnect switch I installed. The new charger bypasses this of course. When I plug into shore power, with the battery switch off, and the charger plugged into any outlet, this appears to work to prevent WFCO from charging battery but allows all AC and DC loads to function. So this config would perhaps be the best way to implement my stand alone charger?
2013 MAXX T@B towed by a 2015 Volvo S60 5 CYL AWD Sedan Seattle, WA
Correct, the 12VDC system will continue to work on battery off the battery only, so you will be putting a load on the battery whilst trying to charge it, but the DC systems will work.
If you are connected to the mains/shore power the WACO will provide 12VDC to the DC systems, taking the load off the battery. While connected to 120 shore power, if all you want is to use Victron charger to just charge the battery, get a Marine A/B battery switch, and use it to switch your battery between the WATCO connection and the Victron charger. This way the WACO powers the TaB, and the Victron will charge the battery quicker. When towing or camping without shore power, just switch battery back to the WACO unit, and Bob’s your uncle... cheers
2018 TaB400 Custom Boondock, Jeep Gladiator truck, Northern California Coast.
Replacing the single pole battery so witch with a A/B switch will allow you to leave the Victron charger and WACO hard wired to the battery. But just turning off the existing battery switch will work also. cheers
2018 TaB400 Custom Boondock, Jeep Gladiator truck, Northern California Coast.
Correct, the 12VDC system will continue to work on battery off the battery only, so you will be putting a load on the battery whilst trying to charge it, but the DC systems will work.
If you are connected to the mains/shore power the WACO will provide 12VDC to the DC systems, taking the load off the battery. While connected to 120 shore power, if all you want is to use Victron charger to just charge the battery, get a Marine A/B battery switch, and use it to switch your battery between the WATCO connection and the Victron charger. This way the WACO powers the TaB, and the Victron will charge the battery quicker. When towing or camping without shore power, just switch battery back to the WACO unit, and Bob’s your uncle... cheers
Roger that! This helps tremendously. I installed the cut off switch specifically to isolate my previous (Noco) charger in its repair mode, and then inexplicably somehow in the intervening years forgot about the switch despite its big red lever. I am simultaneously happy and concerned for my faculties. 🤪
2013 MAXX T@B towed by a 2015 Volvo S60 5 CYL AWD Sedan Seattle, WA
@Denny16, I don’t know about other smart chargers, but my Battery Tender brand specifically says not to apply a load during charging. It must interfere with the charger moving from one stage to the next or maybe it just prolongs the charge.
Correct Sharon, most small stand alone chargers are designed to charge a disconnected (no load) battery. A charger/converter like the WACO can do both. Charging a battery under a small load will also increase the time it takes to charge. Depends on the charger design and the size of the load. cheers
2018 TaB400 Custom Boondock, Jeep Gladiator truck, Northern California Coast.
Any update on this? I also believe the converter does not have a relay and that the charger output is fed to the DC circuits when on shore power.
I have the Victron SmartShunt installed in my 2022 320S BD and want to switch to Lithium. I bought a Powerurus 100Ah battery and it did not work properly and I returned it for a refund. I did discover however, the voltage drop issue as the wiring from the converter to the battery in the tub is 10 AWG. I considered pulling 6 AWG wire but it would not be easy after looking at the routing with my inspection camera.
Here is what I have decided to do:
The Victron Blue Smart charger, the SmartShunt and the MPPT solar charge controller will be connected using the ve.network feature.
When connected to shore power the relay will disconnect the WFCO and connect the battery to the Victron Charger. The Victron charger will detect the voltage at the battery and compensate for the wiring voltage drop by increasing the output voltage of the charger so that the voltage at the battery is correct. This is much simpler than re-wiring. I have also confirmed that this approach should work with tech support at BattleBorn.
This leads me to one other thought - why not just remove the converter from the WFCO and replace it with a good 12V switching regulated power supply that will fit in the cabinet. This will provide good DC power when on shore power and voltage compensated charging for Lithium batteries with minimal wiring changes.
Not sure if I watched that video back in 2020, did do so today. Good video Link, thanks @Bayliss
Training Video reminds me of my Military Technician and IBM Field Service 'engineer' days as the world of electronics was shifting to "repair" meant PCB Swap . . . component level part replacement was a 'service depot' task and these days there aren't many repair depots left; everything is just thrown away, few repaired/refurbished PCB out there.
The Video did have a couple of Spoken Word Surprises, information I don't recall reading in any of the WFCO literature found on the web:
- 1 - On initial power up the fan always runs (as we all have observed) and is normal operation
as the current draw circuit detects higher current from the charging of various capacitors
on the convertor PCB.
- 2 - Cabin 12VDC loads get priority. Battery charging gets the left over.
i.e. If you have a 35-Amp WFCO, cabin load is 10-Amps, maximum available for
battery charging is 25-Amps. Makes sense, no big deal, just had not seen it documented.
BTW - - what the heck is drawing intermittent current while watching a DVD on shore power? Have noticed with the same lighting load, 12VDC TV on, Radio / DVD running, the WFCO fan randomly turns on/off . . . the current monitor circuit detecting an increase - - - yet, no specific 12VDC electrical load changes have occurred.
Guess the 'current trip point' is very near the TV+lights+DVD current draw . . . WFCO's consumer quality vs. industrial or automotive quality component parts selection may also a factor . . .
'18 320 S, pitched axle, 3020HE; PNW based TV: '17 Colorado V6 Z71 4x4, Tow Package, GM Brake Controller Adventures: 54Nights: 341 Towing Miles 43,780
Comments
It describes the operation of the WFCO 8955PEC model (55 amp), which they say is used on 85% of RVs, but it is essentially the same as the model used on T@B trailers. I learned from it, so I figured it is worth sharing with others on the forum. Additionally, it may help resolve some of the most recent questions above in this particular discussion thread.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_Qyur-fsAw&feature=emb_rel_end
(Alde: 3020; Refrig: Isotherm Cruise 65 Eleg; Battery: BB 100Ah LiFePo4; Solar: Renogy 100Ah Suitcase; Victron BMV-712; Pwr Cntr: PD-4135KW2B; EMS: PI-HW30C)
Greg & Marlene (Tucson, AZ)
Former steward of a 2017 T@B S Max
I removed my air conditioner, and therefore have a dedicated outlet and 20A circuit breaker that is available.
If I flip the 15A gcfi (and converter) breaker to off, then would this accomplish the task of disabling the WFCO battery charging (and outlets) but leave everything else functional (all DC and other AC (which for me is just fridge) so that my stand alone battery charger could charge without the WFCO interfering?
Seattle, WA
Seattle, WA
Seattle, WA
cheers
Seattle, WA
cheers
Seattle, WA
cheers
Charging a battery under a small load will also increase the time it takes to charge. Depends on the charger design and the size of the load.
cheers
Good video Link, thanks @Bayliss
Training Video reminds me of my Military Technician and IBM Field Service 'engineer' days as the world of electronics was shifting to "repair" meant PCB Swap . . . component level part replacement was a 'service depot' task and these days there aren't many repair depots left; everything is just thrown away, few repaired/refurbished PCB out there.
The Video did have a couple of Spoken Word Surprises, information I don't recall reading in any of the WFCO literature found on the web:
- 1 - On initial power up the fan always runs (as we all have observed) and is normal operation
as the current draw circuit detects higher current from the charging of various capacitors
on the convertor PCB.
- 2 - Cabin 12VDC loads get priority. Battery charging gets the left over.
i.e. If you have a 35-Amp WFCO, cabin load is 10-Amps, maximum available for
battery charging is 25-Amps. Makes sense, no big deal, just had not seen it documented.
BTW - - what the heck is drawing intermittent current while watching a DVD on shore power?
Have noticed with the same lighting load, 12VDC TV on, Radio / DVD running, the WFCO fan randomly turns on/off . . . the current monitor circuit detecting an increase - - - yet, no specific 12VDC electrical load changes have occurred.
Guess the 'current trip point' is very near the TV+lights+DVD current draw . . . WFCO's consumer quality vs. industrial or automotive quality component parts selection may also a factor . . .
TV: '17 Colorado V6 Z71 4x4, Tow Package, GM Brake Controller
Adventures: 54 Nights: 341 Towing Miles 43,780