changing converter

[Deleted User]

Hum....the repairshop agreed that it should be switched to the 60 amp breaker and they did switch it out, but that's partly because I asked them if it needed a 60 amp and I brought a 60amp out with me.  I did say though that I didn't know if 60 amp was right or the 40 amp.  When I picked it up it had the 60 amp installed.   I thought someone said in this thread that when the new 60amp Progressive Dynamics charger goes up to 50+ amp during charging that is going to trip the 40 amp breaker.  Ugh! It was a major PITA to take the camper out for service. I hate to think about having to go through it again.  

What scenarios could possibly create a fire Hazzard with the 60amp breaker? I mean would running the heat pump at the same time as the microwave cause it? 

I see the wiring diagram but I'm not sure how they wired mine.  I plan to take some pics but the cover has been an ice cocoon since I got it back home and I can't get the zippers to unzip, but I might be able to get inside later today to take some pics.  

[Deleted User]

Here is the install pic.  The tech had to cut the hole you see to the left of the remote pendant. He also had to switch out the outlet to one that has two plug places.  So now the Alde and the converter are plugged into the same outlet. Its hard to make out how its wired in since I have a lot of stuff going on in this area! In case you are thinking the tire is going to damage the wiring from moving around...I have a thick piece of cardboard that I wedge in between the tire and the battery box, so the tire can't move at all.

Denny16

You are getting the DC amp charging rate mixed up with the AC load amperage, they are entirely different.  A 50 amp 14 VDC DC charger is not going to draw 60 amps.  Nothing in your trailer is going to draw more that 30 MPs, with the Cool Cat AC, microwave and toaster all running at the same time.  The Alde is on a 15 amp circuit for its 2KW heating element draw, as is the AC/DC fridge.

The average home does not draw more than 100 amps on its main breaker.  I have a 70 amp sub panel service to my shop to run several 220 volt 3 and 5 HP electric motors at the same time.   The wires going to the shop are sized for the 70-amp breaker on then main power panel.

The main breaker on your TaB is supposed to be 30 amps, that is the size of the hookup cable to shore power, your 120VAC distribution breakers are only 15 amps each, and I doubt your power load in a TaB with everything running would exceed 30 amps, if it did for some reason, or you developed a distance short in the AV circuits and you had a 60 amp breaker where it should be 30 amps, to match the wiring the 30-amp load wiring, it would overheat and possibly cause a fire.  I saw a boat catch fire from this very same situationat a marina imused to work at.  

This is why AC breakers are matched to the wires connected to them. A 15-amp breaker is connected to wires that support 15-amp loads or 20-amp breaker on a 20 amp circuit.  Your 30 amp main breaker is connected to the 30-amp hookup cable that came with your TaB.  Adding a 60 amp main breaker is not going to give your trailer 60 amps of AC service.  What it is going to do, is eliminate the safety catch net  the 30-amp breaker provides, and probably invalidate your comprehensive insurance, should you have a fire, even if not related t the oversized breaker.  

Do yourself a favor, and replace that oversized 60 amp breaker with the original 30-amp breaker nüCamp installed.  Then you can sleep comfortably at night knowing your TaB is properly protected.
cheers

ScottG

@TabbyShack, I'm a little confused about the 60A breaker. Are we talking about the main breaker in the 120V AC panel? If so, I agree with what Denny16 said above. While I think you would be hard pressed to draw 60A from the T@B, it is conceivable you could exceed 30A, and at that point would be taxing the T@Bs existing wiring. Doing so would likely trip a campground or house breaker, but ideally that protection should be the job of the T@Bs main breaker.

The battery charging issues discussed here are a little above my pay grade, but I'm thinking the 60A draw refers to the 12V DC battery charging circuit. If that is the case, then that particular 12V DC circuit should have a fuse/breaker and wiring that are up to handling that amount of current.

It may help to remember that Watts (the amount of electrical "work" you do) is equal to Volts (electrical pressure) x Amps (electrical flow). A device drawing 60A at 120V can do a whopping 7200W of work, but that drops to 720W at 12V. That is why 12V devices (like your souped-up battery charger) often demand what seems like excessively high amperage.

[Deleted User]

I'm talking about the breaker that is in the back beside the batteries.  It says "Glaso" on it.  Its the box with the yellow button mounted to the right of the distro box in the pic above. It was originally a 40amp breaker but my service tech switched it out with a 60amp. 

I'm very interested in knowing everything about batteries so I'm sucking up all this knowledge for the battery in my head...my brain! 

So nothing was changed inside the brown circuit breaker box (mine is up front by the door) except they removed the old charger.  

They gave me the 40amp breaker box back, so it looks simple enough to switch it back on my own.  Would it be enough to just turn off the battery shutoff switch to do the job or do I need to unhook all the stuff connected inside the distro box on the negative post to avoid sparks if something touches something while I'm working? I installed the Victron battery monitor, so I have some basic skills in working on this wiring in the back...although...I do not enjoy tinkering with stuff like this if I can avoid it and my skills are just good enough to potentially get me in trouble!

ScottG

Ahhh. That makes a bit more sense, @TabbyShack. We are talking about the 12V DC side of things. If your souped-up charger is operating at >40A then I can see where the original battery breaker could trip under that load.

Running your heat pump, microwave, and other 120V AC appliances from shore power (per your earlier question) is not going to trip the breaker on your battery (unless perhaps you are trying to run those things from an inverter).

Whether or not you should put the 40A breaker back--or alternatively upgrade the wiring on the 12V DC side--is again above my pay grade. I gotta' tap out on this one and turn it back over to the big battery gurus. Good luck!

[Deleted User]

The souped up charger is a 60 amp charger, but I think I saw someone on this thread say the most it every does is 50 or so amps.  I'm not seeing any change on my Victron Battery monitor when I'm in bulk charge other than from being at 13.65 charging volts, it bumps up to 14.45 charging volts in bulk charge mode. I'm not seeing any big amps registering on the victron during the bulk charge but I guess that just means the monitor doesn't show me that info.

Denny16

That makes more sense, sorry about the confusion, but it sounded like in the original post TabbyShack was referring to the AC main breaker.  As long as the DC wires are the correct size for 50-60 amps for the length of their run, you should be OK, as long as the new 60 amp breaker is just between the charger and battery.  

Currently, in your your photo, it looks like your charger wire is going to the battery DC distribution/junction box, so the 60-amp DC breaker is in line with the TaB’s DC wiring also.  

I would reinstall the  40-amp breaker between the Battery and the main TaB DC wiring, splitting the charger red p/positive connection off the junction box and directly to the battery, with its own 60 amp breaker.  

This would be the best approach to take. As the rest of the trailer’s DC wires from the battery are only 40 amp max rated.  

Cheers

rh5555

The converter has its own fuses on its output, so no need for an additional breaker on the charging line.

rh5555

@TabbyShack - you'll only see charging currents of 60 Amps if your battery really needs charging.  My setup only delivers 55 Amps (its rating) when the battery is at 75% State of Charge (SOC) or lower.  What is magic is that you will now be able to charge your battery from 50% SOC to 75% SOC in just one hour of generator time.

Denny16

If the new converter has a fuse on its output, then just put the 40-amp breaker back in and remove the un-needed 60-amp breaker, and Bob’s your uncle... 
cheers

[Deleted User]

Great feedback guys.  Yes the new converter has 3 of the blade type fuses on it.  Forgot to notice the size of the fuses.  

MarkAl

Does anyone know if any of the charger/converters have a voltage sense input separate from the charging port? The Victron shunt has this feature that reports the actual battery voltage to the solar chargers without the resistance loss of the charging cables. This allows the charger to boost the output voltage to compensate for the voltage drop and keep the batteries charged for their actual need.

rh5555

Neither the WFCO nor the Progressive Dynamics measure the battery voltage at the battery.  They assume you have no voltage drop down your cables (which is insane, given the charging currents in excess of 50 Amps).  This seems to be a huge oversight on their part. 

I haven't found a charger that uses a 4-lead system (2 charging leads, 2 sensing leads) at a half-way reasonable price.  If anyone finds one, holler!

Dutch061

I believe that the 9100 Series from Progressive Dynamics uses an external sense input set of wires, this is based on the instructions I am looking at for the 9200 series that I purchased. I maybe should have went with the 9100 series for Lithium because I have a feeling that I will upgrade sometime this year, but I feel confident with the remote pendant, that I can force the bulk charging mode and be fine.

Brad