changing converter

TomCanada

Thanks.  The 7A is likely because you're not deeply-discharged.  Would be interesting to see the current draw if the battery was down to something like 12.0V - we might see a >30A spike at that point.  Anyways, I'm going to make sure my installer shows me where he's rigged up the fuse so I can have some spares ready.  Long-term, if I need better charging for boondocking, and solar isn't cutting it, I might consider the DC-DC charger route, bulk up all the wiring, and take advantage of my car 'generator' instead of buying a separate generator unit.  Lots of fun potential projects to queue up!

[Deleted User]

Just confirming that 4awg wiring is what is best to install the PD 60 amp converter?

rh5555

My recommendation is to install the heaviest cable you can manage. I used a combination of 4, 2 and 00 AWG cable.  Windy Nation can make up leads for you with appropriate lugs already crimped on.  Their wire is very flexible (it is primarily used as wire for welders).   Personally, I would take the 40 Amp breaker out - you're well protected with all the fuses on the branch circuits.

tphaggerty

TomCanada said:

Thanks.  The 7A is likely because you're not deeply-discharged.  Would be interesting to see the current draw if the battery was down to something like 12.0V - we might see a >30A spike at that point.  Anyways, I'm going to make sure my installer shows me where he's rigged up the fuse so I can have some spares ready.  Long-term, if I need better charging for boondocking, and solar isn't cutting it, I might consider the DC-DC charger route, bulk up all the wiring, and take advantage of my car 'generator' instead of buying a separate generator unit.  Lots of fun potential projects to queue up!

No, that was with a deeply discharged battery. Our TV charging barely keeps up with the 12v refrigerator when it runs a lot. This is from many, many days on the road with 8 or 10 hours of driving and the batteries are only a bit more charged. Wish it wasn’t that way for sure. 

DenisP

I installed a Victron DC/DC charger in my 2018 Tab 400 and wired with 6Ga wire to the charger.  I ran 6 Ga wire from TV battery to an Anderson connector beside the 7 pin connector.  I made the installation after my camping season ended. I am taking a 680 mile trip to Sugar Creek for some work and will have better idea how well the setup works.  The DC/DC charger is in addition to the factory solar panels and I have a Renogy 100W suitcase for flexibility.

TNOutback

This thread makes my head hurt too!  @TabbyShack I have a 2020 400 with the converter/distribution panel up front, batteries in the back.  Others in other posts have already shown the wire sizes used and the length of wire used makes it a poor design, relative to maintaining good, healthy batteries.  The system simply will not bulk charge.  At the same time the Harris Battery folks say it is critical we do proper charging on these AGMs. My lightbulb moment came while boondocking last Fall, running a generator for 4-5 hours, plugged into the 30A camper outlet, and it simply wasn’t charging the batteries up.  My Victron monitor was only showing 4 to 6 amps going into the batteries and I wasn’t gaining any state of charge.  I really like @rh5555 modification; that is a great approach.  However, I am still toying with the idea of either mounting a dedicated battery charger next to the distribution block, or running a pair of leads from there over into the Alde compartment so I can access them through the Alde service door and attach an external battery charger when I want/need to do fast charging.

Dutch061

I bought a PD9260CV that I will install in the rear near the batteries, it has a pendant that I can force the bulk charge mode (up to 60 Amps) at will. As per Progressive Dynamics, by using the pendant this convertor can be used with Lithium batteries in the future if I were to upgrade. I will also upgrade the battery cables and leads to make sure that I don't have resistance issues.

Special thanks to @rh5555 for all the work he done in testing convertors, resistance, locations, and most of all the testing on the AGM Batteries. I have the means to buy 2 Battleborn's but based on Roger's test results and how long the original Harris batteries may last will determine if I pursue Lithium in the future. We camp mostly in primitive areas, Hip Camp, and others that are sometimes shaded well and the solar will not do the job. #1 goal was to be able to get "my charge on" in a couple of hours rather than 24 hours. 

Camper is currently in OH getting the floor replaced due to stains. Major job, I met a few others this past summer with 2020 400's that had similar stain issues. When it comes home, I have a shed full of goodies to install when it comes home.

Brad

[Deleted User]

TNOutback,

You've kind of got me thinking again about installing leads to the distribution box and just using a high quality battery charger plugged into my generator.....instead of replacing the factory converter.  I have a service appointment next month to switch out the converter, but now I'm rethinking it a tiny bit.

So, can someone alot smarter than me weigh in on the pros and cons of doing the either of 1) replacing stock converter with the PD 60AMP converter and upgrading the breaker to a 60 amp one, or 2) installing leads on the distro box and run them out through either side access hatch and buying a nice battery charger and plugging it into the generator. I guess you would need a big one though to charge fast so that's a MAJOR con. 

Which option would charge the fastest and safest? 

I don't seem to care about fast charging when I'm hooked to 30amp campground power (but would be one in the pro column for switching the converter) my main goal is for fast charging on generator power.

I know DougH talked a bit about this back in August, but I'm just wondering a bit more about this option. 

Denny16

If you switch out the fuse/breaker to 60 amps, you will need to upgrade the main wires on this circuit to cay a 60 amp load, or you could have a fire in your rig.  A 40 amp furs/breaker was installed because the wiring in this circuit was rated for 40 amps.
cheers

[Deleted User]

Even if the 60 amp converter is right beside the batteries and wired directly into the distribution box?

rh5555

The 40 Amp limit for 8AWG copper wire is a conservative limit based on worst-case scenarios where multiple wires carrying this current are bundled together.  For individual wires which are free to dissipate heat (as is the case with trailer wiring), the limits are higher at 65 Amps minimum. http://www.standard-wire.com/current_carying_capacity_copper.html

You'll probably want to upgrade your wiring to get the fastest possible recharge, but you don't need to do it because of a fire risk.

[Deleted User]

Good info. I'm glad Danny mentioned it though. Still something serious to consider.  That's a cool website! 

Denny16

It was just a though, to error on the side of safety.  My comment was based on what Creed at nüCamp had stated, and observations in my own TaB.   Most of my experience with DC systems has been in the Marine industry, where larger gauge wiring is used, based on amps being carried and distance of the run, then they use the next biggest size wire, than the minimal requirement.
cheers

YanniLazarus

if I go with an external battery charger instead of changing the converter (looking to buy a "smart charger" for my soon to arrive two 6v golf cart AGM's, as this seems to be the healthiest way to top up the charge of an AGM instead of depending on the factory 320 converter and TV alternator) can I be plugged into shore power while using the external charger?  Is there a conflict of charging sources?  If I shut off the battery switch does it isolate the battery from the converter? Or is there a fuse for the converter to isolate it?  And, just confirming... I do set my charger for 12V AGM when charging two 6V batteries in series???!!!

Sharon_is_SAM

@YanniLazarus - when we use an external smart charger to charge our AGM, we just turn off the battery switch.  You can then run the TaB on shorepower while charging your batteries.  You are correct in setting your charger to 12v when your 6 volts are arranged in series to provide 12v power.

YanniLazarus

Sharon_is_SAM said:

@YanniLazarus - when we use an external smart charger to charge our AGM, we just turn off the battery switch.  You can then run the TaB on shorepower while charging your batteries.  You are correct in setting your charger to 12v when your 6 volts are arranged in series to provide 12v power.

thanks!  so, do you generally also use (and not worry about using) the "dumb" factory converter and TV alternator to charge your AGM's?  Do you try to avoid charging your AGM with shore power through your converter?

Sharon_is_SAM

@YanniLazarus  - For whatever reason, our 150 Amphr AGM fully charges with the stock converter.  Due to the issue with the converter not reaching the ideal bulk charge voltage, we error on the side of caution and plug in to the charger when we get home and give it a good charge at the AGM parameters.  When we use solar, it is a non-issue.

Dutch061

Sharon_is_SAM said:

@YanniLazarus  - For whatever reason, our 150 Amphr AGM fully charges with the stock converter.  Due to the issue with the converter not reaching the ideal bulk charge voltage, we error on the side of caution and plug in to the charger when we get home and give it a good charge at the AGM parameters.  When we use solar, it is a non-issue.

I don't have any issues getting a full charge with the WFCO factory installed convertor either as long as it is plugged in long enough. Where we run into issues if we are under trees (fairly common in NC) or if it is overcast and I need to charge the batteries with a generator. My goal is to be able to get them fully charged (or nearly) in 2 to 4 hours instead of a couple of days.

Brad

[Deleted User]

I'm getting ready to buy the Progressive Dynamics 60 amp converter and I'm seeing two different 60 amp model numbers.  Please see photo.  Which one should I get and what's the difference?  One has a CV in the number and the other just a C.

haha, in an attempt to resize my photo, I discovered the answer to my own question!  So the CV model comes packaged with the control pendant, and the C model does not!

Photo deleted due to size - Moderator

[Deleted User]

I resized the photo using the app I was told to use. I will retry.

Dutch061

I bought the PD9260CV, as I plan to install it under the bed as close to the AGM Batteries as possible on our 400. I will also use as large of wire as possible and increase the size of the battery cables to further reduce the resistance to maximize charging while using a generator. 

The PD9260CV has a pendant that allows you to force the bulk charging mode regardless of battery voltage, so if I were to ever upgrade to Lithium Batteries, I don't have to make any further changes. 

Special thanks to @rh5555 for all of the testing and leg work Roger did that makes my upgrades a simple matter of buying the correct things. 

Brad

[Deleted User]

Thanks Dutch.  There are quite a few variables to get straight in my mind.   

Are you also replacing the 40amp breaker with a 60 amp breaker? I can't recall now above who brought up this point.  I think you have to replace it with the 60 amp or it will blow it in bulk charge mode...I think. 

Dutch061

I will likely wire in a separate breaker for the Convertor by itself and leave the 40 Amp breaker that is in place. I haven't thought about it a lot but I do know that I will add some type of circuit protection just in case.

Brad

[Deleted User]

That's a good idea to wire in a seperate one for the converter.  Yes, that's what I will do too. That makes sense.  

[Deleted User]

I just had the PD9260 installed by my local RV repair shop this week.  I decided it was beyond my comfort zone especially when I realized the closest outlet only had one plug hole and the Alde was plugged into that, so I had to get shop to switch out that receptacle too.   They also switched out the 40amp breaker with a 60 amp breaker. 

So, the little black plastic cover that fits over the distribution box no longer fits because there are so many things attached to it!  Does anyone know if they sell a taller cover for that?  They managed to put in one screw on one side, but it looks sloppy.  

I will provide pics of the install as soon as I get up the nerve to go out in the frigid temps to get a better look at things.  I did see on my Victron at the shop that it was getting 14.4 volts when I switched it to bulk charge. I think that is about right isn't it?

rh5555

A Dremel is your friend here.  Just carve out some plastic from the little black plastic cover so that it straddles the extra wires.

[Deleted User]

What an awesome idea!!!!!!! Thank you so much!! I've had a dremel in my Amazon cart for over a year.  I'm buying it now! 

Marceline

TabbyShack said:

What an awesome idea!!!!!!! Thank you so much!! I've had a dremel in my Amazon cart for over a year.  I'm buying it now! 

This is really nice to have if you need to use a Dremel in a tight or awkward space:
Dremel Flexshaft

Denny16

I would be careful swapping out the main 40-amp breaker for a 60-amp.  The TaB wiring is only rated at 40 amps max.  A shore power connection is only going to be a 30-amp circuit/breaker, so you are removing one of the safety features.  Increasing the breaker to 60 amps, not going to give you 60-amps of power...

If you have an electrical fire, your insurance could use the 60-amp breaker change as an excuse not to pay out.  The main breaker is rated to match the trailer wiring, to prevent overheating the wires and causing a fire.  Changing the breaker to 60-amps without upgrading the wiring is just plain unsafe.

cheers

rh5555

If the new converter install is done correctly, you shouldn't need to change out the 40 Amp breaker.  The converter shouldn't feed current through that breaker.  This is how mine is wired: