Wishful thinking...option between 400 and AVIA... anyone else?

ADRawli

The wife and I truly love our 2019 T@B 400.  It is a joy to own, to tow, and to show off.  I love the build quality, the care in design, and the innovation packed into such a small unit.  I don’t regret purchasing or owning the 400 one bit... and even having thoughts on things like what I am about to say is almost like speaking disparagingly about a beloved family member.  However... I find myself at times wishing for just a bit more.  

I wish we had a true queen bed in width, and even more so in truly usable space.  Anyone sleeping double on the 400‘s bed knows the last 4-6  inches under the window are not for a claustrophobic soul.  And, getting out over the partner on the inside can be a struggle.  The outside sleeper also loses a lot of the awesome view out the window while watching the stars in the night sky or the lightning storm over the distant mountains.  It’s a very comfortable bed in terms of tech and support, and great for a cozy cuddle, but not so much for hot flashes or for a tossing/turning sleeper.

We find we’d also love to have a bit more room to sit and spread out, maybe even to lounge a bit when being outside is not an option (like mid-day all summer in Texas).  The 400 gives you some of that feeling when you’re only a solo at the table, but when 2 (or more) are in there, you pretty much fill up the space.  And, passing in the hallway (haha) is not likely, so 1 or the other is always pulling into the table, the bed, or the bathroom to allow the other to move from one end to the other.  This is less of an issue, as you kind of learn the little “dance”, and that, in a way, becomes part of the 400 charm.

We love the larger fridge, the microwave, and the extra drawer, but wish we had a bit more space for clothing that was removed with the closet’s demise in the 2019 with those options.  Again, there are workarounds like using your TV for extra clothes, packing lighter, etc, so we know and use ways to “make it work”.  I also find that I would love to have a bit more under-bed storage space with more accessible outside access, as well as improved inside access for those of us who have mattress toppers (drawer under the bed??).  And while I am on storage space,  maybe even some sort of outside space with access on the driver’s side for things like my electric cord/water hoses so they can be nearer where they are to be hooked. That’s a bit of an “ask” that is really a bit nit-picky for sure, so again.... it’s not meant to disparage the current 400 as much as just a way to make “great” even “greater”.  

So, and please don’t misunderstand, the 400 is a fantastic vehicle in many, many ways.  If you find yourself defending your 400 while reading, then I’ve missed my mark. The 400 may be perfect for you, and that is 100% fine.  It’s near perfect for us as well, and we we love it too. And I love the nüCamp brand in general.  Great product, great service, great company, great ownership experience.  

I also really like the look of the much, much larger nüCamp AVIA, but... it seems just about 4-5 feet too large, and about a ton too heavy.  What I’d reeeeeally love to see is something right in the middle.  Maybe a smaller sibling of the AVIA in shape (love the window over the table), and general features, but just a bit shorter and lighter, with many of the 400’s more amazing charms (like both the radiant heat AND centralized AC).  I’d love something about 17 feet interior length, and around 3800lbs dry, 5000lbs GVW.  Oh... and just solve all my other wish list 400 improvements with it at the same time... easy, right?

So, is anyone else with me and want our friends at nüCamp to surprise us with a 2021-2022 offering right smack in the middle?  As much as I love my 400, I think I might actually be one of the first in line, but I wouldn’t be surprised to find many of us in a foot race to take delivery.  What do you all think?

VictoriaP

Personal opinion (obviously), I think there’s a bigger market for a Tab “500” than the Avia.

Verna

With nüCamp introducing the Barefoot this summer/fall, I doubt there would be any opportunity to introduce another new model. The Covid-19 has taken a hit on every business’ bottom line, so I’m sure they will be cautious with any additional major cash outlays. 

atlasb

I like the looks of the European, T@B 510 double axle.  That extra space would be a bonus, But the 400 Still fits in our shop, is towable (even though we upgraded the Tow Vehicle) and has pretty much all we need.  Could use the Cool Cat 13,500 in our hot Oklahoma summers.  Don't see the Avia  in our future.

CrabTab

We got the 'grand tour' of an Avia last September at the factory. It is quite opulent. We would seriously consider one if we intended to destination camp and full time. Road tripping and overnighting in unique (frequently small) places is our current preference.

Neither of us wanted to be against the incline of the roof when sleeping in a 400, so we went with the 320 (even though it has trade offs too) when we purchased in 2018. We haven't been able to see a 400 Solo in person yet. It may be the best of the current product line to meet OUR personal desires.

Sharon_is_SAM

I can see that camping in very, hot weather will drive you inside to sit in the A/C and then space becomes a problem.  Even with our CSS, the PaHaQue tent gets too hot and we can’t enjoy it as much.  But, we have used fans and even opened the door and used the A/C to cool the tent.  I think if we were full time, we would want a better lay out, but, it is perfect for our intermittent travel.  Delaney just bought a really nice Lance that checks a lot of your boxes @ADRawli.

ADRawli

VictoriaP said:

Personal opinion (obviously), I think there’s a bigger market for a Tab “500” than the Avia.

I would have to agree. I was a bit surprised that they jumped that far from the 400 to the Avia.  I think they skipped over a lot of demand in the space between the two.  The Avia is really nice, but probably over double the size in terms of actual volume of enclosed space within its 4 walls compared to the 400, especially when you’ve removed the teardrop shape.  How about adding 40-50% more space instead, or as well, with a baby Avia (call it ‘“Avialet”)?  That would feel like the Goldilocks size for a lot of potential new (and even existing) nüCamp customers.  Again, your opinions may, and do, vary... and it’s all good.  

DougH

This thread was entitled: "Let's design a T@B 500"
https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/comment/135652#Comment_135652

 ... and as a Texan stuck in 92F and 70% humidity weather, I want a 20,000BTU ducted A/C that only needs 500W (if the physics would only allow).

http://squob.com/travel_trailers/tb-xl-the-burgher-king/

VictoriaP

ADRawli said:

VictoriaP said:

Personal opinion (obviously), I think there’s a bigger market for a Tab “500” than the Avia.

I would have to agree. I was a bit surprised that they jumped that far from the 400 to the Avia.  I think they skipped over a lot of demand in the space between the two.  The Avia is really nice, but probably over double the size in terms of actual volume of enclosed space within its 4 walls compared to the 400, especially when you’ve removed the teardrop shape.  How about adding 40-50% more space instead, or as well, with a baby Avia (call it ‘“Avialet”)?  That would feel like the Goldilocks size for a lot of potential new (and even existing) nüCamp customers.  Again, your opinions may, and do, vary... and it’s all good.  

I’d definitely look at Lance if I wanted something Avia sized, or even just a little bigger than the 400. Quality is excellent and floorplans are extremely liveable. The Avia’s design left me cold.

I’d really like to see a slightly bigger than a 400 T@da, with rooftop air so the storage wasn’t compromised the way it is with either the Elwell or CoolCat. Scaling up the teardrop just ends up wasting space. 

MomToBostonTerriers

Alan,  

I completely agree with all of your comments concerning the things you don’t like about the T@B 400.  I could have written your original post myself.  

Hubby and I had a 2018 T@B 400 for 1 1/2 years, and he finally said he couldn’t stand the claustrophobic feeling any longer.  So, one week later, we bought an Avia.  Love it.  Love it.  Love it.  It has solved all of the shortcomings you addressed in your original post.  And after having lived with the 400, we feel like we now have an RV mansion. 

Personally, I wouldn’t give up a single inch of space that we have in the Avia — “unlimited storage” (ha ha, well, it seems like it), a full queen bed WITHOUT that low roof on my side of the bed, a spacious dining table, an OVEN!!!!, the refrigerator is plenty big enough for everything we haul, and . . well, it just gets better the more we use it.  I won’t even go into all of the electronic features (because I don’t even understand them), but my electronics-loving hubby is a big fan.

No turning back for us.  

ADRawli

@MomToBostonTerriers Thanks for the response and the rousing Aria endorsement from someone with the true experience making you qualified to give one.  I am sure that trailer is fantastic.  I know if we were to trade in our 400 for something that large, the tow vehicle we love as much as our T@B would also have to go, so it’s probably not in the cards for us at this point, nor anytime soon.  Part of why I’m pining away on the missing link between the two trailers in this discussion thread.  Anyway, nice to hear of nüCamp bliss from our Aria dwelling friends.  Happy camping! 

schout

We decided on the 320 instead of the 400 because we were concerned about the bed situation!  We would have definitely looked at something like the mythical 500 if we could still tow it with a SUV rated for 5000 lbs. 

Mouseketab

MomToBostonTerriers said:

Alan,  

I completely agree with all of your comments concerning the things you don’t like about the T@B 400.  I could have written your original post myself.  

Hubby and I had a 2018 T@B 400 for 1 1/2 years, and he finally said he couldn’t stand the claustrophobic feeling any longer.  So, one week later, we bought an Avia.  Love it.  Love it.  Love it.  It has solved all of the shortcomings you addressed in your original post.  And after having lived with the 400, we feel like we now have an RV mansion. 

Personally, I wouldn’t give up a single inch of space that we have in the Avia — “unlimited storage” (ha ha, well, it seems like it), a full queen bed WITHOUT that low roof on my side of the bed, a spacious dining table, an OVEN!!!!, the refrigerator is plenty big enough for everything we haul, and . . well, it just gets better the more we use it.  I won’t even go into all of the electronic features (because I don’t even understand them), but my electronics-loving hubby is a big fan.

No turning back for us.  

So which A/C do you have? Do you have the smaller overhead A/C and the Ellwell, or the larger single overhead A/C. If you have the latter, how well does the bedroom cool?

MomToBostonTerriers

Mouseketab,

My Avia has the two A/C and heating units.  It works real well.  On our first trip out, I thought it wasn’t working because the system is so quiet and the air flow is so gentle.  After the T@B 400 A/C that worked like a reviving airplane engine, it was a big adjustment.  When we camped at 38 degrees, it took about three hours to heat the camper to 72 degrees.  It’s a long time, but now I prefer the system over the 400’s. 

My Avia is model #45, and I assume that nuCamp switched from one A/C to two units sometime before it got that far. We also looked at model #007 on the dealer’s lot, and it had one A/C unit.  (I know; after working at CIA all my career, I wanted #007.  But it had been to a lot of RV shows, and hubby said no.) 

Mouseketab

In later models they have gotten rid of the Air 8 and have only one larger ceiling unit. So if I do get an Avia, I need to find one with both units.

Denny16

Wait, they may end up putting the upgraded Air 8.5 back in... 
cheers