Alde hot water system not working

Ponzi

We have a new 2021 T@B 320 that does not have a functioning hot water system. We've read through the Alde user manual completely and cannot find out what is going wrong.

The crazy thing is that when the control panel is set to run on either shore power or propane, in a short time you can feel the boiler heating up. And it stays heated for as long as the control panel setting is maintained. However, no matter how long the boiler stays heated, no hot water flows from the taps.

This tells me that either (1) the boiler is heating an empty tank, because no water is able to fill it up, or (2) there is water in the tank that is heating up, but somehow it is not being released into the plumbing to the taps. I know this sounds absurd, but this is all I can figure out at this point.

For those who might say that I should just take it to the dealer -- well, he is located about a 6-hour drive away, and I don't relish a 12-hour trip just to find out that some simple valve has not been turned on; or some other elementary issue is occurring.

So, I'm turning to you guys here in hopes that the light bulb that is not going off in my head will go off in one of yours.

Thanks in advance.

Sharon_is_SAM

@Ponzi

Do you have cold water coming from the hot tap?

How did you fill your Alde water tank?

Is the Alde bypass Lever turned the wrong way?

N7SHG_Ham

Make sure the red bypass handle is not in bypass mode, if that is ok probably an adjustment of the mixing valve. Not sure where you access those on a 21, previously they were both obvious right inside the outside door on on rear of driver side.

Edit to note you have a 320, and I answered for a 400. Only difference is location, they both have a bypass and mixing valve and the Alde itself is same unit AFAIK.

Sharon_is_SAM

The mixing valve on the 320 S and CS is now located under the driver side bench behind/near the Alde, exterior shower hoses and Nautilus.

pthomas745

Here is the mixing valve thread with a description of what it is and what it does.

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/2676/little-hot-water/p1

Ponzi

Do you have cold water coming from the hot tap?

Yes

How did you fill your Alde water tank?

From shore water

Is the Alde bypass Lever turned the wrong way?

Please explain what is "the wrong way".

Thanks.

Ponzi

Make sure the red bypass handle is not in bypass mode, if that is ok probably an adjustment of the mixing valve. Not sure where you access those on a 21, previously they were both obvious right inside the outside door on on rear of driver side.

Edit to note you have a 320, and I answered for a 400. Only difference is location, they both have a bypass and mixing valve and the Alde itself is same unit AFAIK.

Not sure what you mean by "the red bypass handle".

Whatever that is, I've not touched it, and it remains in whatever position it was in when it came fro the factory.

Thanks for your reply.

Ponzi

The mixing valve on the 320 S and CS is now located under the driver side bench behind/near the Alde, exterior shower hoses and Nautilus.

The mixing valve is turned to about halfway between max and min.\

Thanks for your reply.

ASTaB

Hi People.   I have a 2018 320 CS-S. I know where both the mixing valve and the bypass valve are located. Both are in the correct position and I am not getting hot water either. How do you fill the hot water tank?

Tundra57

Not sure if they figure into this, but there are two electric pumps and the Alde. They both have a speed control which should be set 2.5 to 3. I had a problem with my Tab400 which when hot water was needed something howled like a banshee. Turned out my pump was set to 6 from the factory.

So maybe yours is set to Zero.

You did follow the instructions to set the mixing valve right? Mine even in the hot position gave no hot water. I had to unscrew the knob abd manually turn the stalk out about a turn then put the knob back on. Be careful, if you turn it too far it will spring out. Mine did, but i just pushed back and screwed it in a couple of turns.

Sharon_is_SAM

@Ponzi and @ASTaB - don’t worry about the mixing valve just yet.  It sounds like you both are getting cold water out of the hot tap.
1.  To fill the Alde water tank - if on city water connection, just open your hot water tap and that allows water to enter the Alde.  Once it stops sputtering the tank is full.  Same thing if you are using your fresh water tank - turn on the pump and open a hot tap.

2.  @Ponzi - your red Alde Bypass lever is just inside the Nautilus water system hatch.  Turn it to normal.  That allows water to flow to the Alde.

Try this and let us know if it works.  

Ponzi

@Sharon_is_SAM

My Nautilus setup is:

1) Bypass lever is set to Normal as in the photo

2) The Blue and Green levers are set to City Water.

And with this setup, I have, as the manual suggests, opened the hot water tap and run several gallons through, in order to fill the boiler. Having done that, and waited ~45 minutes to heat up, I'm still just getting cold water from the hot water tap. As stated before, the Alde unit does noticeably produce heat, but either there is no water getting into the boiler, or the water in the boiler is "trapped" in there and is not getting out.

Thanks for your reply.

Denny16

Is the Alde hot water function turned on on the Alde Control panel?  Which the Alde running on gas or electric (electric needs a 20 amp minimum connection), check the Alde vent on the outside of the trailer next to the Nautilus door, you should feel heat coming out, if not, than the Alde is not working.  Check under the bunk where the unit is located, Nd see if the 129VAC cord is plugged in, check fuses, etc.  

If you have been testing with shore power, try running the Alde on Gas mode, see if it heats up then. 

Cheers

Sharon_is_SAM

@Denny16 - their first post indicates the boiler is heating.  

@Ponzi - Go into the Alde Control panel Service Menu and keep scrolling until you see the heating temperatures.  How hot are they?

And just to make sure your Alde tank is filled - Briefly pull up on the Alde Safety Relief Valve (yellow flapper valve under the driver side bench).  Have someone watch the water exit and be careful as the water should be hot.  Is it hot?  

I need to see the 2021under bench valve configuration.  It’s different (maybe) Because of the Nautilus.

Denny16

OK, thanks Sharon, missed that.
cheers

Sharon_is_SAM

@Ponzi - make sure the hot and cold water shut off valves under the driver’s side bench are both open.  They may have been closed to prevent flow to the Alde when Winterizing/sanitizing.

Ponzi

Sharon_is_SAM said:

@Denny16 - their first post indicates the boiler is heating.  

@Ponzi - Go into the Alde Control panel Service Menu and keep scrolling until you see the heating temperatures.  How hot are they?

And just to make sure your Alde tank is filled - Briefly pull up on the Alde Safety Relief Valve (yellow flapper valve under the driver side bench).  Have someone watch the water exit and be careful as the water should be hot.  Is it hot?  

I need to see the 2021under bench valve configuration.  It’s different (maybe) Because of the Nautilus.

@Sha@Sharon_is_SAM

I did pull up on the yellow flapper valve last night before I called it a day. It did release a quantity of air (the manual indicates that this is necessary to produce an "air cushion". But I did not know about water exiting the system.

Where is the location of the water exit when doing this procedure?

Thanks.

Sharon_is_SAM

@Ponzi - check out the third picture in this Linked thread.  It is a clear hose.  Should be directly under the floor beneath where the yellow flapper valve is located under the bench.

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/11579/drains-under-the-2021-tab-320-s#latest

Ponzi

Sharon_is_SAM said:

@Denny16 - their first post indicates the boiler is heating.  

@Ponzi - Go into the Alde Control panel Service Menu and keep scrolling until you see the heating temperatures.  How hot are they?

And just to make sure your Alde tank is filled - Briefly pull up on the Alde Safety Relief Valve (yellow flapper valve under the driver side bench).  Have someone watch the water exit and be careful as the water should be hot.  Is it hot?  

I need to see the 2021under bench valve configuration.  It’s different (maybe) Because of the Nautilus.

@Sharon_is_SAM

Right now the the Alde control panel shows Glycol at 100 degrees, and water at 102 degrees.

Sharon_is_SAM

The Alde and water temperature are too low.  How long has the Alde been on?  I assume you are plugged in.  Can you take a picture of your Alde settings?

Ponzi

Sharon_is_SAM said:

@Ponzi - make sure the hot and cold water shut off valves under the driver’s side bench are both open.  They may have been closed to prevent flow to the Alde when Winterizing/sanitizing.

@Sharon_is_SAM

Looking at the Alde under the driver's side bench, I'm not seeing something that resembles hot or cold water shut off valves. The mixing valve is set to max at this point, and one of the water lines connected to that valve is definitely warm, so there is some hot water going into that valve presently.

Also, going through all this again today, and after having flipped up the safety valve last night, I did get a lot of sputtering from the hot water tap, and a lot of sputtering noises coming from the boiler as well.

But I'm still not getting hot water from the tap, so I'm thinking that there is something blocking the water from the boiler entering the plumbing for the taps. Maybe some kind of valve is turned off, but I can't find anything at this time.

Sharon_is_SAM

The sputtering was air you introduced into the system.  Open the hot tap until that goes away.  Then check for water exiting when you deploy the yellow valve.  

If the Bypass Valve is stuck open water will not enter the Alde.

Sharon_is_SAM

Is the water cold or at least warm?

Ponzi

@Sharon_is_SAM

The service panel now shows Glycol at 154 degrees, and water at 144 degrees.

The boiler box is definitely warm now.

Inside the Nautilus compartment, underneath the panel, are two valves. One blue, one red. They release water down to the ground. The blue valve releases cold water, and right now the red valve is releasing lukewarm to warmish water, not hot at this point.

The bypass valve is still set at Normal.

I did run more water from the hot water tap, and there is no sputtering at all now.

Sharon_is_SAM

So maybe you just didn’t wait long enough for it to heat?  

Is the thermostat on the Alde turned down below ambient and is the Alde not on continuous for the pump?  I know jkjenn could not get hot water until she turned the pump to operate via the thermostat.

Sharon_is_SAM

Since the glycol/water temp is now where it should be, now you may need to adjust the mixing valve.  It takes more than just turning the knob.  I would wait a half hour and see if your water is hot enough.  If not then adjust the mixing valve.  I will find the post with directions.

Sharon_is_SAM

I think this is the best explanation for the mixing valve per Bayliss.

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/5018/no-hot-water-at-kitchen-sink-bathroom-sink-had-hot-water#latest

Ponzi

"Inside the Nautilus compartment, underneath the panel, are two valves. One blue, one red. They release water down to the ground. The blue valve releases cold water, and right now the red valve is releasing lukewarm to warmish water, not hot at this point. "

The water coming out of the Nautilus compartment red valve is now definitely hot. The mixing valve is now at full max.

Reading through the post link you have included, I'm kind of confused as to why this hot water system seems to need so much massaging. Guess I'm used to home hot water systems that is like "set it and forget it", and replace the hot water heater every 10 years. This Alde system appears to require a lot of hands on effort to maintain in proper working order. I will say the dealer I purchased this from did not give me a proper education on how much tweaking the system requires.

Sharon_is_SAM

Yeah!

Well, just like anything else there is a learning curve.  I think you will grow to appreciate the Alde, but there are some nuances.  The newer Alde 3020 manual is better than my 3010 manual, but not by much.  So, be glad you have the forum.  

The speed to heat the water depends on several factors:  How cold is the Alde Metal tank, how cold is the water, do you have it on “2” electric elements or just “1“ (2 kw vs 1 kw), propane is faster with 5 kw of heating power and for cabin heating LPG and electric will speed up your ability to heat the cabin.  Secondarily, the mixing valve increases or reduces the amount of cold water mixed and delivered to the tap and will help create a comfortable setting.  

We as owners know much more about the Alde than most dealers.  

Did you need to do the real mixing valve adjustment by loosening the screw?  If you do, be careful as it is easy to go too far and you end up with a flood.

jkjenn

Ponzi said:

Reading through the post link you have included, I'm kind of confused as to why this hot water system seems to need so much massaging. Guess I'm used to home hot water systems that is like "set it and forget it", and replace the hot water heater every 10 years. This Alde system appears to require a lot of hands on effort to maintain in proper working order. I will say the dealer I purchased this from did not give me a proper education on how much tweaking the system requires.

It shouldn't require much of anything. Just like if you have your hot water heater at home shut off, when you turn on your Alde, it takes a little while to heat up (30ish minutes.)

Denny16

Yes, it is not an on demand water heater, when coming from cold iron.
cheers