Alde hot water system not working

Ponzi

Sharon_is_SAM said:

Yeah!

Well, just like anything else there is a learning curve.  I think you will grow to appreciate the Alde, but there are some nuances.  The newer Alde 3020 manual is better than my 3010 manual, but not by much.  So, be glad you have the forum.  

The speed to heat the water depends on several factors:  How cold is the Alde Metal tank, how cold is the water, do you have it on “2” electric elements or just “1“ (2 kw vs 1 kw), propane is faster with 5 kw of heating power and for cabin heating LPG and electric will speed up your ability to heat the cabin.  Secondarily, the mixing valve increases or reduces the amount of cold water mixed and delivered to the tap and will help create a comfortable setting.  

We as owners know much more about the Alde than most dealers.  

Did you need to do the real mixing valve adjustment by loosening the screw?  If you do, be careful as it is easy to go too far and you end up with a flood.

Sharon,

Thanks muchly for all the info you have given. You are indeed a treasure on this forum.

I haven't done the mixing valve adjustment yet; I'm mentally exhausted by all this interfacing with this system for today, and just want to have a nice dinner and relax. I'll try working on that valve tomorrow and keep you all posted.

Have a nice evening everybody!

Sharon_is_SAM

Take a break.  It gets easier.  We find that in the hot summers we even get by with not heating the water, so your mixing valve can wait.

N7SHG_Ham

The Alde system is pretty set and forgot once you learn it. AFAIK the factory tests for leaks on the factory floor using air pressure, I don't think they fill system with water and adjust mixing valve.

So first time you start and again after winterized, it would be like a home hot water system that was devoid of water. Lots of air trapped. Further parallel to the home system, thermostat needs adjusting first time and the mixing valve is a thermostat of sorts for Alde hot water. I have not heard of a single mixing valve that was set correctly at factory and pretty sure they are set way cold as a libililty insurance so folks don't burn themselves.

It takes several gallons of water being run through to purge the air both hot and cold and through all the taps including outside shower, inside shower, toilet and both sinks. Then it takes about 30 minutes for hot water to reach max at the Alde which is around 175-180f. Once all that is done you need to adjust the mixing valve which almost assuredly will require turning full max, remove screw, move knob past stop and then turning until water is temp you want at taps.

Mixing valve adjustment once set shouldn't need further attention, the air purge will require done each time you drain the water system and would be same regardless of type of hot water heater was installed.

A plumbing, AC and DC electrical, carpentery, mechanical systems and probably other classes should be part of a new RV purchase. If you have never done any of those things, RV'ing will have a steeper learning curve.

Denny16

Setting up and running the RV systems sounds more difficult that it actually is, and most anyone can sort all this out, one step and a time, make notes and keep a checklist for each system setup is helpful.  If you have not done so, download the Unofficial Tab User’s Guide available here.  Whilst it is based on the TaB400, lots of useful information for other TaB owners too, it even includes check lists you can modify for your trailer.
cheers

Sharon_is_SAM

@Ponzi - If you intend to camp using your fresh water tank (no city water connection), it is a good idea to purge the air via a city water connection at home before you depart.  It is much faster than using the pump/fresh tank plus you can fill the Alde tank and reserve the full volume of your fresh tank for the camp site.

Kr@cken

Since we are on this topic I wanted to make confirm the Alde should be off and turned on only when you anticipate needing hot water. Is there a down side to leaving it on between uses of on shore power?

Denny16

Depending on the mineral content of your water, the more you use an electrical heating element in the water, the sooner it may wear out.  I only use the Alde when I am using the trailer (camping) or when I want to dry it out during damp/ wet weather.  Leaving the Alde in whist setup off electric at a RV park, or off gas, will not hurt the system.  If you want hot water, but not cabin heat, you can set this on the control panel.  I set the cabin temp at 55F, which keeps the circulation pump off, and stops the cabin from getting heated, but allows the water tank to continue heating water, which will be on demand type basis, hen the tank cools below its set temp, it will turn in to heat the water, than shut back off.  It does not run continuously.

A small plug in electric ceramic heater will also do a good job to keep the trailer warm and dry inside during cooler weather, along with a small fan to circulate the air.  Whist not using the TaB, I also lift open the under bed, and u dear seat storage areas, and leave the locker doors slightly open, to eliminate or reduce any chance of mold or mildew in side the trailer, as we live on the coast.
cheers

Sharon_is_SAM

@Kr@cken - while camping with shorepower in the cooler season, if you are heating the cabin, then the water will also be heated.  In the summer, if you like immediate access to hot water, you can leave the Alde turned on.  The one thing you want to turn off if you leave your campsite is the city water spigot.  You don’t want to come back to a flooded camper.

VictoriaP

Sharon_is_SAM said:

@Kr@cken - while camping with shorepower in the cooler season, if you are heating the cabin, then the water will also be heated.  In the summer, if you like immediate access to hot water, you can leave the Alde turned on.  The one thing you want to turn off if you leave your campsite is the city water spigot.  You don’t want to come back to a flooded camper.

@Kr@cken Adding on...in hot weather, you may find your bed is too warm if you’ve left the Alde on for hot water. This will be more noticeable if you sleep across the back of the dinette the way I do. Great for backaches, not so much for temps like we’re having this week. When I camped last summer, I turned the Alde off before bed and on in the mornings.

And obviously if boondocking, Alde consumes propane and some 12v, so it may be best to turn it on only when needed if you’re out for an extended stay.

jebjam

Did you solve your issue?  We have the 2021 320 CS-S and had the same issue.  First trip out we couldn't get anything past lukewarm.  In the end the system was working just fine, he problem was the mixing valve. Even turned to "max" water coming out of the tap was still not warm.  

The solution for us was to adjust the mixing valve, as listed in the Alde manual.  Loosen the screw at the top of the valve, lift it and rotate so that the normal and max settings will allow higher flow of water from the boiler than was set by the factory. Obviously there is a caution to this, understand the hot water can be hot enough to scald so be aware once you've made the change.

This worked perfectly for us, no issues since.  I assume on some models the factory setting was inadvertently set in such a way that you could never get hot water, adjusting it is the fix.

Hope this helps and is clear enough - my manual is tucked in the camper at a storage lot so I can't give you the page details, but will go fetch it if you still have trouble. I'd put money on this being your issue, given our experience.
Cheers!

Verna

The factory sets the mixing valve so no one gets scolded. Once you change the setting, you assume the responsibility for the temperature of the hot water. 

4ncar

The mixing valve sounds like the culprit, based on the comment that you feel hot water coming to it, but obviously nothing at the tap. Perform the adjustment(loosening screw, etc) this should get you hot water.

btw...this should be the only time you need to fiddle with it...operative word...should...

Ponzi

UPDATE:

I'm finally getting hot water from the Alde hot water tank. The mixing valve was indeed part of the problem, and this video sent to me from Nucamp customer service helped with that:

https://cloud.nucamprv.com/index.php/s/Z2pHmpFwQpfHoM9

However, there were other issues involved, primarily having to do with air trapped in the system, that simply running water through the (hot water) taps did not fix. I had to release the yellow flapper valve, run water through again, and repeat several time to thoroughly purge all air from the system. This was pretty tedious, but eventually got all the air out, and now it gets hot water through the taps.

I still have an issue with the Alde panel, however. There doesn't appear to be a way to set the shower icon to halfway. It seems to be either all or nothing -- i.e. the long right triangle gauge symbol next to the shower icon can be either completely black or completely empty. I have no halfway setting, it seems.

Also, the hot water system shuts off the heating element after about 15 minutes. If I'm looking at the services panel with the glycol and water temps, after 15 minutes I can see the temps start to decline. Then, going to the main menu, I can see that the shower icon gauge is now blank (it's now off), and if I want heat to continue, I need to push the "+" icon again to continue heating.

Is there another setting that I need to pay attention to in order to have the Alde keep the hot water on all the time?

Sharon_is_SAM

@Ponzi - 

Thanks for the video from nuCamp.  I posted it under Plumbing Resources under the category "User Manuals..."

Is the thermostat on the Alde turned down below ambient temperature and is the Alde not on continuous for the pump?  I know jkjenn could not get hot water until she turned the pump to operate via the thermostat.

Can you go into your service settings and show us a screenshot?

Bayliss

@Ponzi, to add to at @Sharon_is_SAM's info, I have the below info in my notes, which should help.  In fact, if I recall correctly, it is from a previous post by Sharon, but I may have modified it slightly:

"If the Alde pump is set to Continuous (Cont.) circulation vs Thermostat (Therm.) driven, you cannot choose the partial shaded option.  In the Continuous pump mode, you can choose the boost (i.e., fully-shaded icon) which stops the glycol circulation for 30 minutes and allows the water to get extra hot for taking a shower.  If you keep the pump setting in the Therm mode, you can adjust your water temperature to partial shade OR use the boost option when desired." 

Ponzi

@Bayliss

Yes, that is correct. I have not tried that yet, but here is another video sent to me from Nucamp Customer Service (Creed Hostetler), which shows exactly how to set this up in the panel:

https://cloud.nucamprv.com/index.php/s/Gzmtb6PDPC5GHjP

I'll report back later as to how this turned out.

Bayliss

@Ponzi, thanks for posting the nuCamp video.  Short, sweet and to the point.

HelenMansfield

We took our 2021 320 Boondock out for the first time this past weekend and had the same experience - no hot water through the taps (cold, then lukewarm for less than 5 seconds, if that). We turned the mixer valve all the way up. Water released from the yellow pressure relief valve was hot, as was water from the low point hot drain in the Nautilus compartment. We were connected to shore power, had it on 2w and let the Alde hot water run for hours. Tried the boosting on the panel as well. Looking from above the mixing valve, the red line coming out of the Alde and going into right side of the mixing valve was good and warm. The red line coming out the left side remained cold. We were strictly using the city water for connection/water pressure. What are we doing wrong. Never did get hot water to tap for 3 days, but boy was it hot draining from low point and relief valve when we re-winterized to return home.  Any help much appreciated.

Sharon_is_SAM

@HelenMansfield - did you adjust the mixing valve by loosening the screw?  This thread has directions:  https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/5018/no-hot-water-at-kitchen-sink-bathroom-sink-had-hot-water#latest

HelenMansfield

@Sharon_is_SAM we didn't, we simply turned the valve all the way up. Will try that next time we go out. Could that be set so no water is coming through mixing valve, because that is what it seems like was happening? Watched the video and will try that next. We are total newbies to a trailer like this (used a Coleman tent trailer for 17 years but it had no systems like this). Everything else worked like a champ, in fact we were surprised how quickly the Alde took the trailer from 50 degrees to 65. Thanks for your quick input!

Sharon_is_SAM

@HelenMansfield  The mixing valve adds a set volume of cold water to the hot water outflow and you can not completely eliminate the addition of cold water.  If the water is especially cold, you may not have a satisfactory hot water temperature if you are simply turning the knob.  I am under the impression that you should get at least some hot water just turning the knob.  Your best bet is to adjust it using the directions in the thread.  Depending on the season, you may want to adjust it differently.  

There have been some reports of defective mixing valves, but you need to adjust it to find out if it works or not.

Not sure of what video you are referring to.  I suggest you read and follow the directions in the above thread that I linked.

Verna

@HelenMansfield, when you double check on the mixing valve in the 2021 T@B 320, be sure to turn the knob in the direction of the “+” arrow. That seems to be backwards for me, but I didn’t design it😁

HelenMansfield

@Verna and @Sharon_is_SAM earlier in this thread there was a video listed from nuCamp that showed taking the screw out of the black mixing valve cap and removing the cap. Underneath the cap is a little black geared mechanism that should be flush with the brass casing. Ours was low and following the video directions we used the cap to bring the bottom of the inside piece up even with the brass. Bingo! We have ample hot water flowing to all the taps. We kept reading "adjust the mixer valve" which we did just by turning the black cap to its plus max. But if that doesn't work for you, you have to go further. We thought we had watched every video under the sun on the issue, but not this one https://cloud.nucamprv.com/index.php/s/Z2pHmpFwQpfHoM9 Thanks for all your help!

Sharon_is_SAM

Thank you @HelenMansfield.  That video was in the linked thread above.  Yeah for hot water!

Syd

I know this is an old thread, and I will post a new one if needs be, but...I am having issues with my Alde 3020.

We bought Hopper, our 2019 T@B 400 last spring (2020) before the 'rona rampage. It was second hand, but very lightly used (previous owner only took it out 3 times for short trips). Everything is fantastic, except for the hot water situation.

Last spring, I had to de-winterize when we got home. Straightforward. We then "camped" in our backyard a couple of weekends, but did not use the water system. We were then really lucky to find a wonderful campground for 10 days in July, and did all three types of camping - water/power, boondocking, and full hookups. 

During this trip we found that we would only get about 5 to 10 seconds of really hot water, then barely lukewarm, then basically cold. While we did not shower in the trailer, if we had wanted/needed to, we would not have been able to. All we wanted that trip was hot water to wash dishes. We had to heat water on the stove.

Fast forward to this spring. Testing all systems after de-winterizing. Everything seems fine except for the hot water. While propane will keep the water hot for 4 or 5 seconds longer than electric, still no joy with anything approaching enough to fill the kitchen sink.

I have followed everything in this thread, and in the linked threads. I have done the mixing valve thing. I have drained and refilled the system. I changed out the fuses on the Alde. I need to top up the glycol reservoir, but it is still at the minimum line. I have made sure the settings are correct in the control panel (as far as I can tell), and the glycol temp is ~158 and water ~130. At the mixing valve, one of the tubes is quite warm and the other quite cool. I am sure this is normal. Yet the water is only hot for a few seconds.

I am at a loss.

I have seen videos where people have tested how long the water is hot for. They usually get 2 or 3 minutes at a time. That would be super.

Again, if I need to post this as a new thread, please let me know.

Thank you.

EDIT - the heat for the trailer works perfectly fine btw. Found this out last summer when I thought the temp had to be cranked up so the water would get hot. All that got really warm was the trailer. 32C inside on a 25C day. Unpleasant.

EDIT 2 - Wandering around the internets in search of a solution, I think I may have found one. The Alde Flow option in the control panel. From what I can see under the bed, the red tank looking thing is the Alde Flow. I turned on the option and got hot water longer. I will try again tomorrow, because I am mentally burned out right now, and let you know if this is the solution for the 3020.

Sharon_is_SAM

@Syd - the main Alde glycol pump and the Flow pumps should be set the same at 2 - 3.  

bergger

I know you are frustrated but the symptoms you describe sound like it is the mixing valve.  If the Alde is producing heat and you have the flow option checked off in the settings then you have hot water since the Alde provides both the heat and the hot water.  It is just not getting out into the plumbing properly.  We had the same issue with out 2021 400.  I removed the plastic mixing valve knob and moved it a couple of notches towards cold then screwed it back on and then had all the very hot water we needed.  If you have tried that and it is still not working then you may have a bad mixing valve.  

Syd

Update - Better hot water with Alde Flow activated, but still goes lukewarm after 20 - 30 seconds. Glycol at 153, water at 135.

@bergger - I did the valve fix, but the video above shows moving the stem to be level (or out to the + side). This is what I did. Would turning it down towards the - sign close off the cold water? This is so confusing.

@Sharon_is_SAM - How do you adjust those pumps? Also, where do you find those pumps?

I did read somewhere (here??) that someone with this problem had a shut off valve on the cold water pipe to the mixing valve. They claimed they no longer had problems with hot water. Is this a viable solution?

Sharon_is_SAM

@Syd - the Alde pumps are mounted on the Alde unit and Alde flow unit under the bed.  Also, check your Alde control panel to make sure the circulation pump it is set to “Therm” and not “Cont”.

Syd

@Sharon_is_SAM - the panel control is set to therm. 

Another stupid question - what do the pumps look like? Are they the things that have a tiny red button on them? If so, how to adjust them to the correct settings? If not, what do they look like?