Camping when nights are below freezing

Lauinger

We live in Colorado and plan to boondock camp for several days late September. We could see some nights at or below freezing but days should be in 60s and 70s. Can we keep TAB 320 systems in "non winterize" mode assuming we run heater at around 60 at nights?
What are the trigger to winterize while camping? 

jkjenn

Lauinger said:

We live in Colorado and plan to boondock camp for several days late September. We could see some nights at or below freezing but days should be in 60s and 70s. Can we keep TAB 320 systems in "non winterize" mode assuming we run heater at around 60 at nights?
What are the trigger to winterize while camping? 

I have done a fair amount of shoulder season camping in Colorado and other similar climates and altitudes and been fine. As long as you are not looking at prolonged periods below freezing or going too cold.

Open the kitchen cupboard doors and bathroom door (it gets really cold in there), and fold the bed down flat to increase the air flow from the Alde vwnts and you will find it delightful.

You can also do a partial winterization. Winterize the freshwater and and Alde and use the toilet by dumping rv antifreeze in the black tank or cassette (if cassette, put tit directly in the cassette, not via the toilet) and flush with water fro a gallon jug.

Sharon_is_SAM

If you are dipping to freezing for a couple hours and then warming up in the morning, probably no worries, but I think this will help:
1.  Run your Alde to keep the cabin and plumbing above the floor warm.  Open cabinet doors to keep plumbing warm.
2.  Keep a full fresh water tank - takes a long time to freeze a large volume

3.  The risk is to those areas below the TaB - fresh water tank pick up, grey and black tank valves
4.  Keep some antifreeze in the gray and black tanks and the shower trap

What TaB year and model do you have because the 2021 has many new features that may or may not apply here.  Add a signature line with that info if you can.

The Nautilus And cassette toilet and their susceptibility to freeze is new for us all.

jkjenn

Sharon_is_SAM said:

The Nautilus And cassette toilet and their susceptibility to freeze is new for us all.

I think, it is possible, that the nautilis might not be too much of an issue because of its location. I am hoping the proximity to the Alde will help.

The cassettee toilet it plumbed and I think both that and the freshwater plulmbing are vulnerable.

Denny16

Keeping the heat in will protect the inside plumbing, but the water tank could freeze some overnight, so I would leave some air space in the tank.  You might consider getting some tech foam panels to enclose the water tank and /or a heating pad under the tank.  The grey tank could be drained and left empty overnight, and leave the valve open, or add some RV Anti-Freeze to the grey tank, if dumping it is not an option.

When the daytime temps are at 32 F or below its time winterize the trailer.  That said, I took a Class C camper up to the mountains in SoCal during the winter to go skying.  My GF didn’t want to leave the propane heater on (old fashioned semi vented type), and the next morning my 20 odd gallon water tank (Under the rear dinette seat) froze enough to not work, and I  didn’t have water until I got back to the coast, and 60-70 degree temps.  Lesson learned.
cheers

Sharon_is_SAM

@Lauinger - I think when you anticipate a sustained freeze beyond a few hours, then there is more risk of damage.  We camped in Utah at 7,000 feet and had multiple nights that we had temperatures in the high 20s.  We put antifreeze in the black tank and shower p trap.  I would avoid pulling the gray and black tank valves when the temps are below freezing.  They are a weak link when it comes to damage from freezing.

Denny16

No need to pull the black tank valve or drain it for a single night of colder temps, some antifreeze to settle in the valve is good, the black tank is in the washroom which is heated, so no danger of it freezing, except for the drain pipe/vale which is outside.

I agree a single overnight low temp in the high 20’s is not going to be an issue, I have well water pipes and valves above grade outside that survive winter nights in the high 20s.

Cheers

Lauinger

we have a 2020 so not a cassette tank.  are the tanks more at freeze risk than the lines in the unit if the heat is on?

Denny16

The raised area under your toilet is the black tank under the shower pan trim.  The hole in the bottom of your toilet is the tank, which is above the floor, so it gets heat from the cabin Alde heater system.
cheere

Sharon_is_SAM

Except for the pump pickup and the fresh water drain, the plumbing lines are exposed to cabin heat and not at as much risk.  If you keep antifreeze in the black and gray tank (and work some through the gates) they are ok.  Some owners in freezing weather don’t use the water in their TaBs, but they use the toilet and flush with antifreeze.  

nhmike

remember  to crack a window while your sleeping to allow moisture (from breathing) to escape.

1968Healey

We camped in Banff in October of 2019 and it got down to 0 at night and didn't go above freezing during the day atleast once.  The only problem was the dump valves.  We installed heating pads on the fresh and grey tanks, but I'm not positive they were really needed.  

The Alde system kept the inside of the camper nice and toasty for the whole time we were there (almost a week).  I do recommend a small USB powered fan to provide some airflow; you'll get condensation issues because the convection heat doesn't have uniform coverage.

ginsbuj

We boondocked near Silverton early October 2019. One night it went below freezing by 10 PM and was 16 by morning. Of course we ran the Alde but I also ran a bit of water through the system every couple hours. I was surprised in the morning to find the outside shower not frozen and actually getting some heat from being near the Alde. According to NuCamp I was lucky but I wouldn't be afraid to do 25 or above temps. 16 was a bit sketchy situation.

Denny16

On the TaB400, the black tank is in the heated washroom, under the toilet above the floor, so it will not freeze as long as the Alde heat is on.  The only issue is the drain line/valve, and you only need enough antifreeze to go down into This area.  Flushing with Antifreeze is totally unnecessary and expensive.  If you are not using the water tank, a gallon jug of water left by the toilet will do the job of flushing it.
cheers

jkjenn

1968Healey said:

We camped in Banff in October of 2019 and it got down to 0 at night and didn't go above freezing during the day atleast once.  The only problem was the dump valves.  We installed heating pads on the fresh and grey tanks, but I'm not positive they were really needed.  

The Alde system kept the inside of the camper nice and toasty for the whole time we were there (almost a week).  I do recommend a small USB powered fan to provide some airflow; you'll get condensation issues because the convection heat doesn't have uniform coverage.

We must have just missed each other. 😁

I was there just a couple of days before the weather turned beatly cold and snowy...tge weather nipped at my heals from West Glacier until it caught up with me in Spearfish, WY. I loved riding out the cold and blizzard conditions.

YanniLazarus

1968Healey said:

We camped in Banff in October of 2019 and it got down to 0 at night and didn't go above freezing during the day atleast once.  The only problem was the dump valves.  We installed heating pads on the fresh and grey tanks, but I'm not positive they were really needed.  

The Alde system kept the inside of the camper nice and toasty for the whole time we were there (almost a week).  I do recommend a small USB powered fan to provide some airflow; you'll get condensation issues because the convection heat doesn't have uniform coverage.

with my first winter coming up fast, I do wonder about ventilation.  I'm an old hiker, and am comfortable down to zero or so in a camping hammock, but this is a new world for me.  I have a 2020 T@B320S, so old school black water tank.

What, if anything, do winter campers leave open for ventilation?  how much?  fan use? 

DougH

@YanniLazarus ; Maybe because I only try for around 60°F inside during the day, but I haven't had issues with condensation.  Have 12V heat on the water lines, tanks, and valves. No cabin fan needed thus far, except one I turn on to push the cabin air into the area around the black tank and water pump when its below 20F.  I try to keep cabin ~40% humidity, so occasionally crack a side window. Love letting the cabin get down to 40-50F at night with the warmth of the Alde coming up from behind the back shelf (if you sleep sideways or with your head that way). Beware if you cook with propane inside the camper though... huge increase in humidity.

Other reading:
   https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/7978/winter-use-of-our-t-b/p1

AmyJo

I plan to spend one night in Georgia where expected low is 28.  Your comments are reassuring.  I presume that I should not be connected to the water at the site on that one freezing night.  I have a T@B 320S. I learned the hard way about opening the vent during the night.  I'm from Florida and have never winterized my RV.  

Binghi

For that cold night, powerfill your fresh water tank and disconnect your hose afterward. Then set your Nautilus to dry camping mode and use the water pump to supply your water. I’ve only run into system freezing problems when the low drops below twenty. I would set your Alde heat to 62-65 deg at night to keep the cabin warm enough to combat system freezing issues.