Norcold works at home shore power but not a campsite

jules2go

Looking for some thoughts on a mystery with my 2020 320s Boondock's Norcold fridge. At home when I'm hooked up to shore power the fridge works great. When I get to the campsite and hook up to electric, it stops. Second time at a campground this past month and the same thing happened; this last time a maintenance guy changed out the receptacle on the outlet for the site, and still doesn't work. I've called Nucamp and they don't have any ideas. I've flipped the breakers on and off at the power source and in the camper. I also can't get it to run on propane; propane is turned on, set to "propane", needle is in the green zone. I hate to have to take it back to the dealer (1.5 hours away). I'm also having weird things with the electric outlet at the rear on "passenger" side. It is not always functioning. This is my first time with a camper so lots of trial and error. I just find it hard to believe that the fridge is broken, when it works great at home. Would love to hear the experienced owner's thoughts here! TIA. 

Sharon_is_SAM

@jules2go, not sure if you know this, but the 120 v outlets will only work when you are plugged into shorepower.  So that may account for the rear passenger side outlet.

Basics for the 3 way on propane include opening the LPG tank very slowly, lighting the stove first making sure that air is out of the propane lines, keeping the TaB level.

Have you searched on tips for operating the 3-way frig?  
https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/7717/norcold-3163-3-way-refrigerator-wont-start-on-propane-what-fixed-mine-general-diagnostic-advice

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/comment/109178#Comment_109178

Tampakayaker

Just a guess, maybe poor/dirty/miswired outlets at the campgrounds.

Do you have a surge protector similar to this to check the outlets?

Camco Analzyer 55312 Circuit Analyzer Dogbone 30 Amp

mona

Is the trailer level? 

ADRawli

Trailer leveling would be my guess too... you need be close to level for the fridge to work properly.  If you don’t already have one, there are lots of cool ways to get an accurate level on an RV.  But the least involved is just to take along a small spirit level and place it on the floor of the RV. Level side to side first, by backing the lower wheel up onto blocks (or even better, use an Anderson leveling system... google it).  When level side to side, chock the wheels, unhitch the tow vehicle, then turn your spirit level and level front to back with the hitch jack.  Finally, once level both ways, put down stabilizers with just enough pressure to remove any wobbling (don’t raise the trailer with them, you’ll do damage).  Be sure to crank to a point with the same pressure on each stabilizer. That’s something you just have to get a “feel” for with practice as you crank them down.  If you’ve done all this right, your spirit level should still show the bubble in the middle both ways.  Try the fridge now, and I bet it works.  

Sorry if you already know all this, but I thought it could not hurt to review, especially as you said this is your first RV.

ScottG

This is a vexing issue. Two bad campground hookups in a row is possible but not probable. Leveling could be the issue, but even if you are off-level I am under the impression that is more critical when using propane.

When the camper is plugged into 120V shore power, two things should happen:

• 120V is supplied to the outlets (including those to which appliances like the fridge and Alde are connected; and...
• 120V is supplied to the converter, which in turn supplies 12V to power the lights, fan, water pump, and various electronics.

I mention the 12V because even when things are running on 120V AC (i.e., shore power), devices like the fridge and Alde still require 12V from the converter in order to run. (The same applies to using propane.) In short, both power supplies must be functioning for things to work. 

Of course, this doesn't help you much, as things should work the same hooked up at a campground as they do at home. However, being aware that both 120V and 12v power are required may help in your troubleshooting. Good luck and please let us know what you figure out.

jules2go

Thank you everyone for these tips. All are greatly appreciated and I'm grateful to have this helpful forum. I've learned things from everyone's replies! Going to mull all this over and try everything out. In terms of being level, I'm pretty level at my campsites. My driveway at home is the hardest for leveling; it's on a sideways slant and has to be up about 6 inches or more to be level. 

It's happened at three different campgrounds now. The time before last, the receptacle to replaced and still no-go. When I get home from this current trip I'll hook it up to the home power source again and it will be the true test! I'm just going to bet it works great again. I'll def do an update later this week when I get back home. 

The A/C is working great btw; that was something I was asked by someone else (if the AC wasn't working, the fridge wouldn't be working either). 

(Edited AC to A/C for clarity - Sharon)

jules2go

Tampakayaker said:

Just a guess, maybe poor/dirty/miswired outlets at the campgrounds.

Do you have a surge protector similar to this to check the outlets?

Camco Analzyer 55312 Circuit Analyzer Dogbone 30 Amp

Yes, I do have a good surge protector. 

jules2go

Sharon_is_SAM said:

@jules2go, not sure if you know this, but the 120 v outlets will only work when you are plugged into shorepower.  So that may account for the rear passenger side outlet.

Basics for the 3 way on propane include opening the LPG tank very slowly, lighting the stove first making sure that air is out of the propane lines, keeping the TaB level.

Have you searched on tips for operating the 3-way frig?  
https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/7717/norcold-3163-3-way-refrigerator-wont-start-on-propane-what-fixed-mine-general-diagnostic-advice

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/comment/109178#Comment_109178

Thanks. They randomly seem to work. Yesterday's campsite it worked. Got to this one last night -- that one's not working, but the other 2 are! I think I have some kind of ghost in my camper! 

Sharon_is_SAM

Doesn’t the frig have a hidden fuse somewhere?  Seems like I just read something about that.

jules2go

Sharon_is_SAM said:

Doesn’t the frig have a hidden fuse somewhere?  Seems like I just read something about that.

I don't know about that. I haven't pulled out the fuses that are in the breaker box yet. None of them look damaged so thought I'd leave them alone. The company gives you one extra fuse (green one, taped inside the breaker box), but I don't have any others. 

I'm reading the post on the 3 way gas ignition link you gave me... omg, so much technical info. My brain isn't "wired" to comprehend all of it! but I'll try and slog through it. So much helpful into there, if I can just untangle it all. 

Denny16

At a minimum, you should have
 a 110/120VAC plug-in in circuit tester, to see if camp outlets are first, working, second wired correctly, and no ground fault.  Something like this is inexpensive and quick to use:  https://www.staples.com/Ideal-GFI-Receptacle-Tester/product_196965?cid=PS:GooglePLAs:196965&ci_src=17588969&ci_sku=196965&KPID=196965&gclid=CjwKCAjw4rf6BRAvEiwAn2Q76vWwJ0ktpzGq8vJfNYmyRbF89Z5KZtvPH8Ek8glP2EwZo6BHpeSf4RoCrUIQAvD_BwE
cheers

MuttonChops

jules2go said:
.[A] . . At home when I'm hooked up to shore power the fridge works great. When I get to the campsite and hook up to electric, it stops.

.[B] . . also can't get it to run on propane; propane is turned on, set to "propane", needle is in the green zone.

.[C] . . having weird things with the electric outlet at the rear on "passenger" side. It is not always functioning.

For issues [A] & [C].  Maybe the shore power 120VAC wiring has a loose connection some place.  When the Fridge is on 120AC at campground and does not work
- - - Does the fridge Front Panel green 'AC plug' lamp turn on?  If not then that points to loose connection.
- - - Does rear 120VAC outlet not work the same time the fridge 'AC plug' lamp does not work?

For issue [B] and maybe [A].  On [B] the fridge front panel 'red line in green' indicates the Fridge is burning propane.  So how long do you wait to decide the Fridge is not cooling.  Depending on starting temperature it can take hours for Fridge to cool. Plus on propane how fast & cold depends on how high the propane flame is set.

Thought being;
    Fridge on 120VAC at home and cold, turn fridge off and drive to campground say 2 hours, Fridge inside temperature will rise 15-20F (or more), at campground turn on propane, depending on flame setting fridge could take an hour or more to drop 5+ degrees.
How Soon Do You Say It's Not Cold?
Do you have a thermometer in Fridge?

ScottG

Do you always have your battery cut-off switch in the same position, whether at home or in a campground?

Does anything else (regardless of whether it is 120V or 12V) not work? 

jules2go

One thing I didn't mention is that so far I've camped less than 7 times with my Tab, and I believe it HAS worked on shore power at a campground at least one or two times. And I do recall that I've been at a site a couple of times or so where I only had 50amp service at the campsite. I used my 50amp converter thing when there (along with the surge protector, as always). But I don't recall if those were times when the fridge worked on shore power or not, because it's been only the last 3 campgrounds where it's not worked consistently which has now caused me to be annoyed and concerned enough to start making mental notes about it all. I need to keep a written log of all the variables going forward. My current campsite has 30 and 50amp option; I'm going to try using the 50amp outlet when I get back to the site (with the 50amp converter thing) and see if it makes a difference, just for the heck of it. 

I'm back in my driveway at home tomorrow night and I'll hook it back up to the outlet I've been using and see if it's cooling. I'll post an update when I do that. Thanks again everyone. 

BrianZ

@jules2go,
MuttonChops asked an important question..
"So how long do you wait to decide the Fridge is not cooling.  Depending on starting temperature it can take hours for Fridge to cool."
What's your answer?
Many of us leave it turned on overnight to get it cold before leaving, then pack it with frozen water bottles etc while traveling with it turned off.  If you're only turning it on when you arrive at the campground & not pre-chilling, maybe you're not giving it enough time to cool down after plugging in & turning on.

jules2go

I have it on at least 24 hours before a trip and it's very cold. Longest trip so far is only 2.5 hours, yes, enough to warm up. But by the morning, everything is getting warm. 

BUT! News to report!! I came back to my campsite tonight and tried hooking up to the 50 amp outlet, with my 50 amp converter thing, and VOILA. It is working!!! So, at this point I don't know what to think. At home, I'm not plugged into 50 amp. But those couple of campsites I've been to that only had 50amp service, I guess I was getting juice to the fridge. If it was the 30amp power cord, then it wouldn't work at home, right? Hopefully this will be a good clue for all the wonderful sleuths here. I have zero idea of what the issue is. Glad it's working though. So my 2020 tab 320s isn't 50 amp, right? Isn't it 30 amp? Why would the AC work with the 30 amp, but not the fridge...  

jules2go

ScottG said:

Do you always have your battery cut-off switch in the same position, whether at home or in a campground?

Does anything else (regardless of whether it is 120V or 12V) not work? 

Scott, one 120v outlet, the one on passenger side rear, isn't working. Please see my post just now with the update -- fridge now cooling with 50 amp plug. (Also, I don't think it's the 30 amp outlet at this site that's not working; that would be 4 in a row of 30amp outlets at different sites where it wasn't working in that case. )

Michigan_Mike

Have you had any experiences where nothing worked in the trailer when plugged into a campground pedestal?  As Scott noted, the likelihood that you would run into two consecutive bad campground hookups isn’t probable, but could happen.  There are trailers with “built in” surge protectors and if an imbalance is sensed by the system it will shut down power to the trailer.  I’ve had that happen and that’s why I asked the earlier question above. I have seen people with loose connections behind the 30A female plug receptacle on the side of the trailer.  If you trouble shoot these issues start at the power source and work your way back and you will figure things out.  

Many new trailer owners confuse the electric converter with a power inverter.  The electric converter provides 12 volt DC power to your trailer lights, tv/vcr, etc.  A power inverter converts 12V DC to 120V AC.  The T@B 400 has an inverter but don’t believe the 320 T@B has them.  So as Sharon noted you wouldn’t have 120V AC to the 120V outlets if you are running off the battery as you need to be plugged into shore power for them to work.  

Another thing to consider is “what you have in your frig and is it packed up with food?”  The 3 way frig does need to have air circulating within it to be efficient and if things are jammed in tightly this could create problems with the unit cooling efficiently and maintaining adequate temperature to keep food fresh and from spoiling.  These units can be finicky and in hotter temperatures they can be less efficient and can struggle to keep things cold.  My frig actually performed best on propane and there is a difference if you have it sitting in the driveway unpacked and at the campground with a full load of food.  

I know that nuCamp worked with the manufacturer and that the configuration of the unit had changed and hopefully the housing that the frig sits in has cooling fans behind it to remove heat that has built up.  Since the summer has been extremely hot I can imagine that in many geographic locations it would create issues for these units.  That’s another reason I purchased an ARB as it is consistent and adds a level of comfort and assurance for me when traveling.  

MuttonChops

jules2go said:
. . . tried hooking up to the 50 amp outlet, with my 50 amp converter thing, and VOILA. It is working!!!

Really think the pedestal 30Amp or 50Amp plug is a red herring.  Once you use the 50Amp-to-30Amp converter cable (or plug) the T@B 'sees' 120VAC . . . the available amperage is not a factor, if the T@B needed more than 30Amps maximum the Power Center 30Amp Main Breaker would be tripping.

So, You are not experiencing what you believe to be happening Or there is an intermittent part or connection that is causing this abnormal operation. With recently reported by owners (non-official) reduced manufacturing quality at NüCamp as the factory size and production rate have grown . . . it's most likely a poor connection, which can be a real pain to isolate.

Sharon_is_SAM

@jules2go - can you identify for us which circuit breaker in the converter box runs the frig?  Is there anything else on that circuit?  

ScottG

jules2go said:

ScottG said:

Do you always have your battery cut-off switch in the same position, whether at home or in a campground?

Does anything else (regardless of whether it is 120V or 12V) not work? 

Scott, one 120v outlet, the one on passenger side rear, isn't working. Please see my post just now with the update -- fridge now cooling with 50 amp plug. (Also, I don't think it's the 30 amp outlet at this site that's not working; that would be 4 in a row of 30amp outlets at different sites where it wasn't working in that case. )

Curiouser and curiouser. What type of outlet are you plugging into at home? Also, please answer the question I asked about your battery switch position!

And does that rear outlet work when the fridge is working?

JEB

jules2go said:

I have it on at least 24 hours before a trip and it's very cold. Longest trip so far is only 2.5 hours, yes, enough to warm up. But by the morning, everything is getting warm. 

BUT! News to report!! I came back to my campsite tonight and tried hooking up to the 50 amp outlet, with my 50 amp converter thing, and VOILA. It is working!!! So, at this point I don't know what to think. At home, I'm not plugged into 50 amp. But those couple of campsites I've been to that only had 50amp service, I guess I was getting juice to the fridge. If it was the 30amp power cord, then it wouldn't work at home, right? Hopefully this will be a good clue for all the wonderful sleuths here. I have zero idea of what the issue is. Glad it's working though. So my 2020 tab 320s isn't 50 amp, right? Isn't it 30 amp? Why would the AC work with the 30 amp, but not the fridge...  

You likely have a short in your trailer’s electrical system where a neutral is going to ground and the fault is causing GFCI-protected circuits to pop and cut off AC power.  The key is when you said that you were able to get stable power using a dogbone on a 50 amp power source.  50 amp outlets are not GFCI protected because the NEC does not require it.  Technically, the NEC does not mandate that 30 amp service be GFCI-protected, either, but many campgrounds use GFCI breakers on 30 amp circuits anyway out of an abundance of caution.

This is not an easy (or cheap) problem to fix because, first, you need to convince the dealer that he has to plug into a GFCI protected outlet even to discover the problem. Most service bays have 50 amp and the dealer, like you, just uses a dogbone whenever he needs power.  If he does that, he’ll simply say it works fine for us and you’ll be out of luck getting a diagnosis.

Second, if you can get the dealer to plug into a GFCI protected outlet and trip the breaker, isolating the fault will take some time.  He has to deenergize every circuit and reenergize each one (one by one) until he finds the circuit with the fault.  Once he does that, he might not even be able to identify exactly where the fault is occurring (or access It easily) and will have to run a bypass.  It’s not a cheap fix if you are out of warranty.

Three things you can do to confirm the problem and work around it while you ponder your options.  (1) You can continue to use a dogbone on 50 amp service.  None of the 50 amp sockets are GFCI protected from what I’ve seen.  (2) You can look around for 30 amp service that is not GFCI protected.  This can be easy or hard, depending on where you live or travel.  Federal parks don’t seem to use GFCI protection on 30 amp.  But some state parks systems, like those in the Illinois, use GFCI on 30 amp service almost exclusively.  

There is a third option, but it’s potentially dangerous and you should use it only if you have a dire emergency and need power to run something like a medical device.  Take a 20 amp to 30 amp dogbone and use a pair of pliers to pull out the neutral pin.  It’ll work, because there’s no neutral going back to the GFCI breaker making the neutral to ground fault in your trailer’s electrical system irrelevant, but YOU might become the ground if you touch something on the frame of the trailer.  Then you need to hope the GFCI works as intended because it will immediately pop the breaker and cut AC power.

This problem is more common than you would think.  I actually learned the dogbone trick from a camp host in Illinois who sees it occasionally and keeps a couple of these MacGyvered 20 to 30 amp dogbones on hand.  But the problem often goes undiscovered even if present if you are lucky enough to always use 50 amp service or 30 amp service that has no GFCI protection.  

I hope your issue isn’t what I think it is.  It’s frustrating and expensive to remedy.  But it sounds very familiar. . . .

Denny16

The first place I would look, you suspect a ground fault or bad natural connection, is on the AC cable that runs under the door jam, it could be getting cut by the aluminum bits in the door jam, or pinched coming out.  I know this was an issue on at least one TaB400, I suspect the 110/120VAC cable is routed here on a 320 too going to the galley, but not sure.  Easy to check, using JEB’s suggestion of flipping the Galley area 110=120VAC circuit breaker off and see if the GFI trips.  You could use a 15/20 amp GFI service to check this at home, most garages have GFI breakers on their outlets.

cheers

jules2go

I apologize for not yet replying to various questions everyone has been asking, it's so much info to process and I haven't had reliable internet access at the site. I'm working all day today so can't get back to this until tonight, however, I want to now add that while the fridge had started to get cold last night after I plugged into the 50amp outlet, by this morning it was no longer cold, not even cool; was warm.  

jules2go

ScottG said:

jules2go said:

ScottG said:

Do you always have your battery cut-off switch in the same position, whether at home or in a campground?

Does anything else (regardless of whether it is 120V or 12V) not work? 

Scott, one 120v outlet, the one on passenger side rear, isn't working. Please see my post just now with the update -- fridge now cooling with 50 amp plug. (Also, I don't think it's the 30 amp outlet at this site that's not working; that would be 4 in a row of 30amp outlets at different sites where it wasn't working in that case. )

Curiouser and curiouser. What type of outlet are you plugging into at home? Also, please answer the question I asked about your battery switch position!

And does that rear outlet work when the fridge is working?

The battery switch is always on. Since I have solar I just leave the battery on all the time. ...I think I need to go to RV school. 

jules2go

JEB said:

jules2go said:

I have it on at least 24 hours before a trip and it's very cold. Longest trip so far is only 2.5 hours, yes, enough to warm up. But by the morning, everything is getting warm. 

BUT! News to report!! I came back to my campsite tonight and tried hooking up to the 50 amp outlet, with my 50 amp converter thing, and VOILA. It is working!!! So, at this point I don't know what to think. At home, I'm not plugged into 50 amp. But those couple of campsites I've been to that only had 50amp service, I guess I was getting juice to the fridge. If it was the 30amp power cord, then it wouldn't work at home, right? Hopefully this will be a good clue for all the wonderful sleuths here. I have zero idea of what the issue is. Glad it's working though. So my 2020 tab 320s isn't 50 amp, right? Isn't it 30 amp? Why would the AC work with the 30 amp, but not the fridge...  

I hope your issue isn’t what I think it is.  It’s frustrating and expensive to remedy.  But it sounds very familiar. . . .

It is under warranty. I just bought it in May. I ought to be able to take it back to the dealer and have them fix whatever the heck it is at no cost to me. I definitely am not going to be messing around with electrical stuff myself. 

Thank you for sharing all of this info. Very complicated stuff, for me anyway. 

jules2go

Denny16 said:

"The first place I would look, you suspect a ground fault or bad natural connection, is on the AC cable that runs under the door jam, it could be getting cut by the aluminum bits in the door jam, or pinched coming out.  I know this was an issue on at least one TaB400, I suspect the 110/120VAC cable is routed here on a 320 too going to the galley, but not sure.  Easy to check, using JEB’s suggestion of flipping the Galley area 110=120VAC circuit breaker off and see if the GFI trips.  You could use a 15/20 amp GFI service to check this at home, most garages have GFI breakers on their outlets.

cheers"

--I don't understand this info, it's all like a foreign language... :( How do I know which circuit breaker is for the galley? I don't understand what you mean about using 15/20 amp gfi service at home to check... 

I'm just totally lost. 

jules2go

Sharon_is_SAM said:

@jules2go - can you identify for us which circuit breaker in the converter box runs the frig?  Is there anything else on that circuit?  

I don't know which circuit breaker runs the fridge... I don't know how to find what else is on that circuit. I will try and find out tonight. 

VictoriaP

@Sharon_is_SAM nüCamp used to label the circuits, judging by pics I’ve seen on this forum. As of the 2019 model, they stopped, which is a huge step backwards as far as I’m concerned, exactly because of situations like this where someone (like me!) with no electrical experience can’t even help triage problems at the most basic level of the circuit breaker. No idea why they stopped labelling those.

ScottG

jules2go said:

The battery switch is always on. Since I have solar I just leave the battery on all the time. ...I think I need to go to RV school. 

Got it. On is fine--I just wanted to rule that out as a variable. Without belaboring the explanation, problems with the 12V converter can potentially be masked by power from the battery. If you had the battery ON at home (when the fridge works) but OFF in camp (when it doesn't), that might point to a problem with the converter. Doesn't seem to be the case here.

This is not a simple matter of the fridge not working. Something with regard to the power supply is different when you plug in at home vs a 30A campground outlet vs a 50A campground outlet at the same site. The most likely variables are:

• Having the battery on some times and off others (already ruled out).
• Failure to turn on the breaker at the campground outlet (which you clearly said you did).
• A bad campground outlet (not likely since the problem occurs in multiple places).
• Using different trailer cords or different adapters--one of which may be faulty. (Any chance this is the problem?)
• An intermittent short or open circuit (but those generally don't follow predictable patterns).

 I remain stumped...