2021 320BD -How long can I go boondocking for?

jkjenn

Verna said:

With boondocking, @trimtab, with the black tank, you have only two choices. Pack up the T@B and find a dump station, or empty the black tank into a portable tank and take the portable tank to a dump station. 

There are a few choices for portable tanks. A 6 gallon tank without wheels can be lifted into your tow vehicle. A larger 25 gallon Blue Boy can be pulled behind your tow vehicle at 5 mph or less to a close RV dump site, but there’s not necessarily a dump station close enough for that. 

But, the towable portable tanks with wheels must have rubber inflatable tires to use them on Federal Long Term Visitor Areas (LTVA), as the plastic wheels tend to break and you may spill the contents. If you have a spill, you are responsible for the EPA cleanup fees. 

As you know, black tank contents can never, ever be dumped anywhere except in an approved dump site. 

Since the thread is about the 2021 T@b, I think it is even easier. 

1. Pull the cassette and take 8t to a dump station.
3. Dig a catholic big enough of the location permits.
3. Find a pit toilet where you are allowed to dump.
4. Buy an extra cassette.

How long it will last will depend on how many people and other factors that will vary from person to person. 

Addison

@Verna @trimtab no with a 2021 tab 320 black ta k is the cassette , so easy, wheel it to a toilet or dump station or put it in your car and take to a toilet
This is the easiest / best  part of the 2021 tab 320

Verna

Yes, I saw it was a 2021 after I typed it all . The info will help someone else, I’m sure.

trimtab

"@Verna @trimtab no with a 2021 tab 320 black ta k is the cassette , so easy, wheel it to a toilet or dump station or put it in your car and take to a toilet
This is the easiest / best  part of the 2021 tab 320"

I get that, but if boon-docking way out someplace...with one vehicle..it could present a problem.
5 gallons can fill up in 4 days with 2 people...

VictoriaP

trimtab said:

"@Verna @trimtab no with a 2021 tab 320 black ta k is the cassette , so easy, wheel it to a toilet or dump station or put it in your car and take to a toilet
This is the easiest / best  part of the 2021 tab 320"

I get that, but if boon-docking way out someplace...with one vehicle..it could present a problem.
5 gallons can fill up in 4 days with 2 people...

One advantage to the cassette is the ability to buy more cassettes. You can easily swap in a clean one as needed, and transport several to dump at once.

I still personally prefer the black tank, but a cassette has its advantages.

Marceline

pthomas745 said:

@MarkAl I have the PWM mod, too.   I just asked because most of the Fan readings I've seen here only go up to 2 or so, so three would seem a lot.

I’ve seen the fan draw 3amps  

Marceline

jkjenn said:

Also, I read in a Four Wheel Campers forum that real life readings are much higher than 275w per 24hrs...more like 400w.

I’m really surprised by the numbers that you’re seeing. I’m assuming that these aren’t from the initial cool down? I don’t think I’ve seen my old Norcold 2way draw higher than 3.8amps. And that’s only when I can hear the compressor running. But my last trip was to the beach and never really got too warm. I’ll try to keep a closer eye on it next time. 

jkjenn

Marceline said:

jkjenn said:

Also, I read in a Four Wheel Campers forum that real life readings are much higher than 275w per 24hrs...more like 400w.

I’m really surprised by the numbers that you’re seeing. I’m assuming that these aren’t from the initial cool down? I don’t think I’ve seen my old Norcold 2way draw higher than 3.8amps. And that’s only when I can hear the compressor running. But my last trip was to the beach and never really got too warm. I’ll try to keep a closer eye on it next time. 

I had a chance to see it run on a cloudy day and it drew less. We have had an unusually hit and sunny summer, here, but even so, itnus always hot and sunny for the Southwest.

Also, I would expect the fridge in the CS to have to have to work less because it would be on the opposite side of the trailer from the solar panel, assuming the nose of the trailer is pointed south for better exposure.

Deb55

@Verna 3rd choice for boondocking is to use wag bags and throw them away in the trash. If my black tank was approaching full, and I still had a day or two to go, that's absolutely how I'd deal with the black tank! 

Verna

@Deb55, actually since we’re talking about 2021 T@B 320’s, my choice is the spare cassette I have ordered. Pull one out, place the other in its place and either take the full cassette with me to empty, or stay put and not worry about it for another few days. 

My problem with the wag bags is having to store them while I am boondocking without access to trash. 

KCode

2 1/2 days boondocking. That's what we experienced.

We are new owners of a 2021 320S and were one of the unlucky ones with a non-functional factory solar install, but we still managed 2.5 days this summer with our 12V battery. Maybe we could have gotten to 3 or 3 1/2 without shore power if the solar had been working then!

ScottG

@KCode, how are you gauging that 2 1/2 days? Is that when your battery hit 50% capacity (~12.1V), or is that when everything just shut off for lack of enough juice?

KCode

@ScottG I believe it was when the battery got down to 50%. I know damage is done at greater than 50% discharge. It was surprising, but we also didn't take any showers and otherwise used the pump sparingly. The fridge was all but kept shut. And it was cool enough to not need the overhead fan. (or AC for that matter)

ScottG

@KCode, in that case I'm inclined to say 2 1/2 days with an electric fridge and no supplemental charging is probably pretty good. When I first got my T@B I would go 3-4 days on the battery, but that was with a propane fridge and I'm sure I was pushing the battery beyond the recommended 50% limit.

Needless to say, I was replacing my battery (and adding a solar panel) at the start of the next season!  :-/  

jkjenn

Temps got into the thirties last night, fridge is full, able to turn temperature all of the way down to 0 and it was still very cold. 

Looks like the fridge is drawing around or just under 3 ah.

I wonder if the constant higher draw is due to the ice box?

Addison

@jkjenn wish we could turn off the freezer and just have the fridge

MarkAl

Yes on the freezer, it's just a space waster for us, moving up from tent / hikeing we're thrilled to have a better selection of foods to eat from the refrigerator. Why the freezer need is a mystery. I'm betting removing the freezer will mess up some temperature control algorithm. Anybody ever discuss this with Isotherm?

MarkAl

@jkjenn I was just looking in the Isotherm manual and saw their summary of the "Smart Energy Kit" it implies that the processor monitors the battery voltage and runs the compressor more to overcool the contents only when the "motor is running" if that's the case do you see any difference in the energy use when on shore power or solar surplus power? Like it's OFF because the temp is good but then Turns ON when you plug in to Shore power? We may not see a significant difference in energy usage when not charging the batteries...

Actually I'm thinking of a winter project similar to your "Fuse Buddy" but additionally it integrates the current used over time thus giving an average or "Amp*Hr" rating. Having this we can determine for various outside temps or mods what kind of energy usage we need to plan for...

mntrails

Here's some data from a trip this past week (2021 T@B 320S Boondock)
- Current draw with refrigerator and all lights, etc off: 0.451 A (measured at the fuse block prior to the battery with the solar fuse pulled)
- Current draw of the refrigerator on startup for 10-15 sec: 3.561 A
- Current draw of the refrigerator 10-15 sec. after startup: 2.658 A

(both measured at the refrigerator fuse in the WFCO)

- After reaching steady state, with refrigerator set on '5',  on/off duty cycle ranged between 40/60 and 60/40.  The couple times I 'timed' an on cycle, I noted it to be 7 min 45 sec.

When I have some time, I'll figure out the total refrigerator power used in a 24 hour period assuming a 50/50 duty cycle.  

I didn't have the fridge packed and I probably could have set it to be a bit warmer.  Just by looking at the numbers, power use will be slightly higher than the isotherm data.  These measured currents are in the  range of @jkjenn's observations as well. 

I suspect the Isotherm data was collected under 'optimistic' conditions and used a warmish setting like 2 or 3 to get what they estimated.

It's been a sunny few days though and using a Group 27 deep cycle battery, the battery stayed pretty well charged never dropping below 12.2V under load.  (I don't have a battery monitor to quantify - sorry).

mrdeepfryguy

@mntrails. many THANKS for your time and effort on this. We have the same exact trailer and tow vehicle as you (go figure). this is our first camper and I am a novice at solar and battery management. Appreciate your thoroughness and for the sharing of the data. Don’t have the fuse block, but have tested several scenarios in the driveway. Fully charged battery at dusk, frig set at zero, and battery read 12.52 the next morning after 10 hours. Used $15 plug-in voltage meter and confirmed with the Victron app. Next night, with frig set at 5 and only other parasitic draw, battery down to 12.32 after 10 hours. Have (2) 12v interstate 24 batteries that dealer installed. 81 amps each. Bought a voltimeter and will continue to learn from you and others, need to get smarter... this forum has been great. 

jkjenn

@mntrails what temperatures were you operating under?

dCliffhanger

I'll pitch in this info regarding my T@b 320s with solar and 115ah carbon foam battery, and a 3way frig.  I was out for 2 weeks running exclusively on solar. Ran frig on propane, intermittent pump, used Luci lights except for specific needs, ran Alde for heat (30-40 at night), no hot water.  T@b usually Not South oriented, two consecutive, cold no-sun days. Min of 12.15volts. Indirect sun was enough to give me 80-150watt hrs, peak was 350 (wahoo). Anyway, except for changing one propane tank after almost 2 wks and adding water, we were completely self-sufficient for the whole time.  I'll join in saying that going to the 2 way frig reduces boondocking options dramatically. Even if frig amperage goes from 10 to 2, that's 48ah or much of a single battery. I'll note that carbon foam battery can be drawn down 90% of it's capacity.

mntrails

@jkjenn - we were having a warmish spell in northern MN so mid 70s and sunny durinig the day and high 50s at night.

Denny16

Yes, without solar charging during the day, a two-way at 48ah a day is going to give you only two days, so with other loads a day and a half.  But 130-200 watts of solar is going to more than replenish the 48ah loss and as long as you get some sun or cloudy bright days, your 2-way fridge loss is going to be regained, and you are not using propane to cool the fridge either.  To make the 2-way fridge practical for boondocking/free camping, you will need solar to keep the battery/batteries charged.

@dCliffhanger, your carbon foam battery is interesting alternative to lithium, at almost half the price, you can get 90ah at 1,000 duty cycles, for $550.  Compared to lithium for $995, but you do get more duty cycles.  For someone going camping one or two weeks per year, the carbon foam will give you 3-5 years of use.  This is better than traditional AGMs, which can only go down 60-65%, or 60-65ah on a 100ah battery, compared to 90ah on the 100ah carbon foam battery.  Nice!
cheers

BywaysNW

How do you like that Firefly battery?