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Alde Emergency Override / blown fuse

WildRumpusWildRumpus Member Posts: 42
in Battery/Electrical & Solar
I hesitated to post yet another discussion about the Alde blown fuse situation that most of us have experienced, but after hours of searching the forums I still have a few questions. [2016 Tab CSS]. Here's what's happening: the negative powered 3.1 amp fuse in the alde (the "left" one in the green little holder) blows immediately. Previously, the Alde was ON (while hooked to shore power in my yard), but I did connect the 7 pin electric cable to my TV to test out the rewiring I did on the electric brakes. I went through all 5 replacement fuses trying to troubleshoot it. The Alde was on (while hooked to shore power in my yard), but I did connect the 7 pin electric cable to my TV to test out the rewiring I did on the electric brakes.  Could that have effectively acted as a "power on/ power off" event that is not recommended while the Alde is on? Bottom line: as soon as power hits it now, it pops. Thank you to the folks that posted instructions about fixing the ground wire problem that is known to plague 2016 and older Tabs with the digital Alde control panel. I have ordered 5 amp replacement fuses and will connect the ground wire directly to the battery when they arrive tomorrow. 

Question 1: Does my symptom of immediately blowing the left fuse confirm a grounding issue? Or does it indicate something else? I guess I'll find out tomorrow but I'm curious if someone with more electrical knowledge than me has any predictions. 

Q2: I found instructions (on this forum) on how to perform an emergency override with the Alde, which will effectively bypass the thermostat and leave the heater ON.  We have a trip planned to the N GA mountains next week where it will be in the 40s at night, so we'll need heat and hot water. But it could be in the 70s during the day, and it could even get a little toasty at night with two people and one dog. So, would I be able to flip the Alde circuit breaker as a way to regulate it on/off? Seems like that would work, but I've never tried it so I don't know. 

Q3: If I were to replace the digital Alde panel with Alde's manual control, would that eliminate the fuse problem permanently? The digital panel is nice, but problematic and I'd be fine with manual settings.

Thank you for your time and expertise!
Gainesville, FL
_____________________________
2016 CSS 320 
2022 Tab 400 Boondock
2016 Toyota 4Runner w Anderson WDH
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    Sharon_is_SAMSharon_is_SAM Administrator Posts: 9,497
    edited October 2020
    @WildRumpus - the Alde control panel and circuit board requires 12v power so you need intact Alde fuses.  

    Disconnect the 7 pin, unplug from shorepower, turn off your battery, unplug the 12v Alde cable between the 2 green fuse holders, change both your Alde fuses, then plug in the Alde 12v cable, turn on battery, turn on Alde.

    Where will you use the 5 amp fuses?

    (I was not clear if you had reset the Alde by disabling the 12v cable.)
    Sharon / 2017 T@B CSS / 2015 Toyota Sienna Minivan / Westlake, Ohio
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    pthomas745pthomas745 Moderator Posts: 3,659
    edited October 2020
    If the trailer's battery cut-off was on, and the Alde was on, then, yes, that would be the "power on" scenario that might blow fuses.  I'll leave the grounding wire discussion to someone else.
    You might have found the discussion on "Slow blow" Vs Fast blow" fuses for the Alde.  On my 2017 I occasionally blew Alde fuses and am trying slow blow fuses, and it seems to have helped me quite a lot.  (I've only had one trip in a year, though, because Covid).  But I have done random things in the trailer all summer, and since I routinely keep the Alde off, I haven't had a problem...even though I know the Alde has been on a couple of times when I switched power over or plugged in my solar panel.
    Here is one of the "slow blow" threads...go down the thread a little to find the slow blow discussion.


    2017 Outback
    Towed by 2014 Touareg TDi
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    WildRumpusWildRumpus Member Posts: 42
    @Sharon_is_SAM, I plan on using the 5 amp fuses in place of the 3.1 amp fuses in the 2 green fuse holders. 
    Gainesville, FL
    _____________________________
    2016 CSS 320 
    2022 Tab 400 Boondock
    2016 Toyota 4Runner w Anderson WDH
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    Denny16Denny16 Member Posts: 5,431
    edited October 2020
    That is a bad idea.  You could damage your Alde circuitry, if an overload or short occurs, if Alde specs are for a 3.1 amp fuse.  The fuse is there to protect the Alde circuit board from damage due to voltage overloads or shorts.  
    cheers
    2018 TaB400 Custom Boondock,  Jeep Gladiator truck, Northern California Coast.
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    BaylissBayliss Member Posts: 1,299
    edited October 2020
    @WildRumpus, I second the cautionary post by @Denny16.  The general rule is that you should never replace a fuse with one that has a higher amp rating.  [NOTE:  I have seen the prior discussions regarding using a 5A slow-burn glass fuse, but I would personally stick with the 3.5A.]

    Some of the confusion regarding slow-burn and fast-burn fuses may explained by the differences between the 3010 vs 3020 Alde units, including changes that Alde has made (including the ground wire issue) since the earlier year T@B models were manufactured.  Best of luck to you in getting it all sorted out.
    2019 T@B 320 S Boondock Lite; 2007 Toyota Tundra 4x4
    (Alde: 3020; Refrig: Isotherm Cruise 65 Eleg; Battery: BB 100Ah LiFePo4; Solar: Renogy 100Ah Suitcase; Victron BMV-712; Pwr Cntr: PD-4135KW2B; EMS: PI-HW30C)
    Greg & Marlene (Tucson, AZ)


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    VernaVerna Member Posts: 6,878
    Here are the 3.15 am slo blow fuses for the Alde. Please order them, unless you gave a T@B or Alde dealer close by where you could buy some of the fuses. 


    Verna, Columbus, IN
    2021 T@B 320S  Boondock “The T@B”
    Towed by a white 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 Supercab, 3.5L V6 Ecoboost “The Truck”
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    pthomas745pthomas745 Moderator Posts: 3,659
    Here is the thread where the 5 amp fuses were discussed.  Several quotes from Spencer at Alde about using a 5 amp fuse on the negative side. 



    2017 Outback
    Towed by 2014 Touareg TDi
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    Denny16Denny16 Member Posts: 5,431
    OK, I see what Alde is trying to do, here is the quote from Alde on the referenced discussion, “ He couldn't explain the 12 volts, but did say that they have had back-surge problems on T@B's blowing the 3.14A fuse. He said using a 5A fuse on that ground side would be fine and should avoid having them blow so easily. He also said that on newer T@B's (mine is 2016), they are running a ground wire up to, or closer to the battery to avoid the surge problem.”

    @W@WildRumpusSo it seems changing the ground side only fuse to 5 amps may help.  You could also try running a AWG 16 ground wire to the Alde ground connection, also recommended by Alde on the older TaBs.
    cheers
    2018 TaB400 Custom Boondock,  Jeep Gladiator truck, Northern California Coast.
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    WildRumpusWildRumpus Member Posts: 42
    @Denny16 Good point about using the 5 amp ONLY on the ground side (the left one).  I'll keep the 3.15 Amp on the right side (positive). 
    Gainesville, FL
    _____________________________
    2016 CSS 320 
    2022 Tab 400 Boondock
    2016 Toyota 4Runner w Anderson WDH
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    Denny16Denny16 Member Posts: 5,431
    edited October 2020
    Grand that should work.  
    Cheers 
    2018 TaB400 Custom Boondock,  Jeep Gladiator truck, Northern California Coast.
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    nhmikenhmike Member Posts: 94
    I went with the recommendation to run the ground wire back to the battery and have had no problems since (did repair August, 2017).  Pretty simple fix.  I've stayed with the recommended fuses.   
    2016 cs-s max
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    ScottGScottG Administrator Posts: 5,428
    Has anyone ever figured out (or at least speculated) why this problem occurs in some units but not others? I'm not sure I agree that "most" of us have experienced this; some owners seemed plagued by recurring blown fuses, while others are still going fine on their original set.

    Is there possibly variation in the quality of the ground connection in different trailers?
    2015 T@B S

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    Tundra57Tundra57 Member Posts: 640
    I have a 2019 Tab 400 with the Alde 3020. I often use solar, shore power or my generator and have never had a single problem with the Alde.
    Just thinking aloud, but surely the same current flows in the negative (ground) and positive lines so why change uprate only one of them? Will not the smallest fuse in the series circuit still fail? Also of the ground negative return is so critical, why inrease its resistance by putting a fuse in line?
    Seems very confusing.
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    nhmikenhmike Member Posts: 94
    When I had the issue in 2017 I contacted Alde service and they recommended the correct fix. In part they said  "Check and see if that wire is grounded with a bunch of other items, if it is I will give a brief description on what to change. All you would have to do is just route that one black wire (ground) to as close to the battery ground as possible, if you can get it to the battery that would be ideal."  This prevented a back-fed voltage spike.  They also recommended staying with the original fuses.  They corrected the problem during 2015-2016.




    2016 cs-s max
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    WildRumpusWildRumpus Member Posts: 42
    I re-wired the ground directly to the negative battery terminal. I even replaced the 3.1 amp negative fuse with 5 amp. It didn't fix the problem. As soon as I plugin the 12v Alde cable, the fuse blows immediately. I guess it's time for professional service. My Tab dealership is 1.5 hours away, and there's not a lot of RV dealerships/service centers near me. So I'm wondering if an electrician would be a good route? Has anyone ever used an electrician to service their Tab as opposed to taking to a service center?
    Gainesville, FL
    _____________________________
    2016 CSS 320 
    2022 Tab 400 Boondock
    2016 Toyota 4Runner w Anderson WDH
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    pthomas745pthomas745 Moderator Posts: 3,659
    As long as they are just checking wiring and ground points, etc, an electrician should be able to diagnose where the surge is coming from.  If something is going wrong inside the Alde, that may be a different matter.

    2017 Outback
    Towed by 2014 Touareg TDi
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    nhmikenhmike Member Posts: 94
    Our dealer is a couple of hours away too.  My local garage mechanic is very helpful.  Maybe a call to Alde service.  
    2016 cs-s max
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