2021 320 Boondock has it Not Been Winterized. It has NO WATER in it in Frigid Wisconsin. PROBLEM?

andyboy

We're in northern Wisconsin where the nights have been dipping into the 20s. Our Boondock is sitting outside a cabin we're staying in. I drained all the water out last week. I haven't done any winterizing thinking without water, it shouldn't be a problem. Suddenly I'm thinking, it just may well be problem.....

We're heading to Iowa Wednesday and won't put any water in it until we get there.

Am I just asking for trouble?

CrabTab

@andyboy, Do the drains in a 2021have water in them that can freeze?

andyboy

No. Lines are empty.

VictoriaP

Even if it’s “empty”, some water remains in the shower and sink traps, and may remain in other spots in the plumbing. There’s often also water stuck in the water pump.

If possible, I’d go get RV antifreeze.

Denny16

And put some of the RV antifreeze in the traps on the sink and
 shower.  Empty the gray tank and put some antifreeze in it until you see some come out the drain valve, you want the antifreeze in the pipes under the trailer and around the gate valve, which can be damaged by freezing.  Not necessary to fill the gray tank with antifreeze, a half gallon or so should do the job.

Also make sure you got the water out of the lines, by opening the taps, including outside and inside shower, then open low point drains and leave them open.

If you can leave the Alde heat on low, you can keep the inside and toilet cassette area from getting below 35F would be a good idea, as added insurance on freezing the toilet and inside plumping.  If not siphon RV antifreeze into the pipes, and add some to the toilet.

cheers

Sharon_is_SAM

I would bring the cassette inside if there is any water in it.

andyboy

Thanks all
Any easy way to see if any damage has been done?
Cassette empty too.

Denny16

Is the washroom on the TaB320 not heated by the Alde?  If not, leaving the door open a few inches and the roof vent open slightly would draw warm air into the washroom.  The Cassette toilet is in the washroom, the cassette sits under the toilet and should get some heat from the washroom.  It is not outside the trailer cabin or under the exposed floor area, like a black tank could be.

Even on the TaB400, the black tank is under the toilet in the heated washroom, and not under it.  Only area in a nüCamp blank tank setup that needs protection are the slide valves and short bit of pipe that is below the floor, this is where you need to have the antifreeze.

The cassette access door on the side of the trailer, is a possible cold air point of entry, if the door is not insulated, but it is still sealed with weather gasket, so the heat in the washroom should keep the cassette from freezing.  For insurance, I suppose one could dump some RV antifreeze down the toilet into the cassette.  

From the Thetford Cassette Toilet manual, it states, “the cassette toilet can be used as usual in Colder weather as long as the toilet is situated in a heated area.  If the toilet is not in a heated area, or being stored for the winter, than the toilet and cassette should be drained” per their instructions on Winterizing the cassette toilet.

see: https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1216/0450/files/Thetford_C402C-and-C403L-Cassette-Toilet-Owners-Manual.pdf?9392101067586874322

In all the cassette toilet reviews I have seen, no one has mentioned any freezing issues with the cassette unit, even in winter camping situations in a heated RV.  But I am not an expert on RV toilet installations, just have experience with marine systems, and RV use in general.  That said, as the owner of the RV, you need to do what you think is best to protect your investment.  For me, if in doubt, use the antifreeze, it will only help add additional protection.

[Deleted User]

Letting the water out of the lines is by no means making it safe from freeze damage.  There is definitely water still in your camper. It takes about 20 minutes to winterize a 320 and about 2 gallons of antifreeze.  Why take the risk. There are some nice instructions on this forum on how to winterize. I will look for link.

VictoriaP

Anyone who has been in a 320 bath in cooler weather knows the Alde heat doesn’t reach in there all that well, even with the door open. I would not leave the cassette in there unwinterized in 20° weather. 

Personally, I would make the effort to read up on winterizing, go get RV antifreeze, and get it over with. There’s no reason to risk damage when the process is easy, cheap, and easily reversible.

Verna

Personally, I spent far too much on my T@B to take a chance on causing broken pipes and possibly causing water and mold damage. 20* is enough to make me put off other tasks and concentrate for 30 minutes on winterizing. 

Denny16

I agree Victoria, follow the Winterize procedure outlined in the nüCamp manual, and Bob’s your uncle... However, the manual winterizing instructions do not cover the cassette toilet, and it refers you to the Cassette Toilet instructions, which I looked up.  According to Thetford, it depends on the hearing available in the cassette toilet area.  We are referring to enough heat to keep the space above 35F or freezing, not necessarily toasty warm.

I was referring to OP’s question about any issue with using cassette toilet in a TaB320 that is being heated and used, not stored.  Since the new 2021 TaB320 model has the Alde expansion tank behind the cassette toilet area under the sink, their may be a heater in the bathroom under the shower pan, as the TaB400 has.  Not sure on this, I have been unable to find any info on the new 2021 model.  Perhaps you can ask nüCamp, and see what they suggest.

cheers

Sharon_is_SAM

There is no heat run in the TaB 320 bathroom or under the shower pan.  The OP does not say if they are running the heat and it sounds to me like the TaB is sitting outside unheated.

@andyboy - as robyn769 said, unless you blow your lines out and/or winterized with AF, you risk damaging your plumbing, tank valves, pump, and possibly the fresh water tank pickup under the TaB.  

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/11331/winterizing-the-2021-tab-320-questions/p2

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/11861/2021-320-s-winter-camping-with-antifreeze-in-gray-tank-cassette

Denny16

OK, thanks.  Yes if not heated I agree, the trailer needs to be winterized.
I know the previous TaB320 washrooms were not heated.  I was wondering about the new 2021 model, nüCamp does change things every now and then...
cheers

Sharon_is_SAM

@MarkAl - I think you are one of the few who had winterized.  You blew out the lines and found that the valves required to be turned a certain way.  Can you describe the process again.

Also, no one has talked about what needs to be done to the toilet.  I watched a unhelpful YouTube video.  Do you just empty and rinse the cassette, do you leave it in place during the blow out?  Does AF go into it?  Inquiring minds want to know!

andyboy

The blow out!!! Seems confusing. How best and safefully to do it? I’ve read a tire inflater is good to use, but very carefully. Carefully how?

MarkAl

The Nautilus 2.5 manual shows and describes the valves to be at 45 degrees during the purging process. I found this won't pressurize the lines. I ignored this position and put the valves to the "WINTERIZE" position and pressurized it and it worked well. I used a 12 Volt tire compressor set at 40 psi. I sincerely hope nothing was damaged but highly recommend all the above procedures. I will keep the cassette in the trailer but with some anti-freeze in it filled by way of the pump lines so the splash from the flush protects the various pieces.

Sharon_is_SAM

@MarkAl - so just leave the cassette in place and let AF move into it by flushing the toilet?  Just like the pre 2021 Tabs?  Or, drain the cassette, leave it in place, run AF through the lines and the cassette is AF free?

@Denny16 - the Thetford instructions refer to draining the cassette - no mention of use of AF for those who choose to use it.

@andyboy - when you blow out the lines, keep the pressure under 50 psi.  Depending on how powerful your compressor is, you may need to keep the taps closed, then open one at a time and allow the compressor to pressurize in between.

MarkAl

I plan to use the cassette this winter but with dumping AF into the bowl. XC ski trips without the day travel home. I hadn't thought about any issues w/ the cassette holding AF... could complicate matters but no different than tenting in the snow which I've done a lot. May need to move a bit further back into the woods however.

andyboy

Well looks like a project I’ll be tackling when I get home. The forecast for Wisconsin has no freezings temps now  until after we leave.
As always, thanks all for your helpful advice.