Surge protection / EMS

CharlieRN

With the delivery of our T@B 320 BD about a month away, I'm trying to get ready to pick up the camper. I just had the TV checked out and some deferred work done (new wheel bearings and a rear differential rebuild). I'm now trying to get a  handle on some of the needed accessories, starting with an electrical power management system. Since I'm new to trailer camping, I have a number of questions.

It looks to me that for the 320, a 30 amp unit is fine. Is this the case or is there a reason to go to 50 amps?

Plug-in or hard-wired? My preference is for hard-wired but obviously, plug-ins are easier. The drawbacks to plug ins - that they can easily be stolen or left behind after use (probably more likely for someone like me), I think outweigh the benefit of ease of use. The main drawback to hard-wired is that it requires installation, but that's a one-time activity that doesn't seem particularly difficult. As far as installation, is the junction box for shore power on the 320 in the storage box on the tongue?

I've seen enough reviews to be convinced that you shouldn't scrimp in this area. Two brands that are often recommend are Progressive Industries and Southwire and so I'm considering the PI EMS-LCHW30 and the SW Model 35530.

Would appreciate any suggestions and recommendations from the T@B community on all aspects of the above.

As a post-script, I intend to add a battery monitoring system but at a later date. For the break-in period, I plan to keep tabs on usage with my VOM.

Tampakayaker

You need a 30 amp.

I purchased this plug in type  Camco Analzyer 55312 Circuit Analyzer Dogbone 30 Amp.  I use a bicycle cable lock to lock the camper power cord to the analyzer and then to the power pole.  The analyzer has a metal tab on it to run the lock thru it.

That should be good enough to keep the majority of people honest.

You may want to look at a 50 to 30 amp convertor plug in case you go to a site that only has a 50 amp service, or if the 30 amp is broken or sketchy.

dragonsdofly

@CharlieRN, what @Tampakayaker said X2! You will also need a 30 amp to 15/20 amp adapter. This is necessary if you are plugged into a standard household circuit or sharing a campground pedestal. One plugs into the 30 amp and the other plugs into the 15/20 amp.

Sharon_is_SAM

@CharlieRN - if you go with the portable EMS - go with the PI EMS-PT30X.  We use a bike cable and padlock like Tampakayaker.  If you have a local shop for install, the hard wired EMS is nice to have.  But, if the shop is not local, it becomes a matter of convenience.  Also, if the portable takes a turn, it is easy to replace.

Slackers

We installed the Progressive Industries EMS-LCHW30 for our 320.  Our thinking is we don't want to think about it whenever we plug in and then when we leave.  Either way you go it's a good choice to have an EMS and the 50 amp to 30 amp converter mentioned above.

AirBoss

I went with this one and am happy with it. Runs about $300. 
https://rvpower.southwire.com/products/surge-protection/surge-guard-30a-model-34930/

I preferred the portable version. If I decide to upgrade from the T@B at some point as long as I don't go with a 50amp rig I'll all set. 

And I'd echo others. Get a 50amp to 30amp pigtail and a 30amp to 15/20amp pigtail. Both have saved me over my travels. 

I'd think you'd be just fine with any of the units mentioned here. Cheap insurance against toasting your electrical systems.  

CharlieRN

Thanks to all for the responses. As posted, I'm inclined to go with a hard-wired unit so as to have one less thing to think about.

I hadn't thought about the adapters but a vague recollection that they were part of the package from the dealer, so went back and checked my invoice. It showed only a 15 to 30 amp pigtail, so I will order a 30 to 50 amp adapter. I also noticed that my invoice is dated August,  which means that it will be a full six months we've been waiting if our T@B is delivered next month as expected. Can't wait!

jules2go

I've been researching this as well and appreciate the info here. One thing I read somewhere is that the circuit reader won't work if you're plugged, via a dog bone, into a 50 amp outlet (as when there is no 30 amp at your campsite). The dog bone somehow throws the mechanism off. Yes or no?

Slackers

This past summer we ran into the situation where the 30 amp service at the campsite was not working but the 50 amp was.  So we had to resort to the dog bone solution.   Our PI EMS-LCHW30 EMS had no problems with it.

sqrpeg

One additional consideration regarding hard-wired (inside) vs portable (outside) - our EMS-HW30C emits a 60Hz hum that took some getting used to. Ours is mounted in the driver-side underbench area, and the sound comes from the AC coil inside the unit (I'm assuming the guts of the EMS-LCHW30 will be the same).

Anyway, it wasn't a deal-breaker for us, but having a portable unit that's outside the trailer might be slightly quieter if such things matter to you.

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/comment/86347#Comment_86347

Denny16

Also per the OP’s original question, the shore power connection is under the diver’s side bench, not in the front tub.

dlb

With our EMS-LCHW30C there isn’t any hum....

jkjenn

sqrpeg said:

One additional consideration regarding hard-wired (inside) vs portable (outside) - our EMS-HW30C emits a 60Hz hum that took some getting used to. Ours is mounted in the driver-side underbench area, and the sound comes from the AC coil inside the unit (I'm assuming the guts of the EMS-LCHW30 will be the same).

Anyway, it wasn't a deal-breaker for us, but having a portable unit that's outside the trailer might be slightly quieter if such things matter to you.

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/comment/86347#Comment_86347

If you have a hum, contact Progressive and they will send you a new one if you can produce the receipt. 

I had the hum and they replaced mine. The new one had no hum. 

Olena

Just a quick question because I will be camping with electrical for part of 2021 which is new to me. I want to buy a portable EMS and I usually plug into the 15 Amp plug at the campiste. My normal set-up is the dogbone right off the T@B and then a 14 guage extension cord to the pedestal (I camp in parks where I normally need 75 to 100 feet of cord). 

Where can an EMS fit into this set-up? Do I have to change things around? Do I have to get an EMS that is hardwired into the T@B? 

By the way, I watched the @jkjenn video that talked about RV hotskin. I had no idea! 

Denny16

You can still use a 30amp EMS.  Also using 14 gauge wire for a run over 25 feet is not good.  You should be using at least a 10 gauge contractor’s ext cord, or better yet get a 25-foot 30 amp ext cable, which is what I use, and put the EMS between the dog bone adapter and the 30-amp cable.  

You are going to get voltage drop using a 14 gauge ext. cable.
cheers

ScottG

@Olena, that "15 amp plug" may very well be providing 20 amp service (the number on the associated circuit breaker will confirm). Concerns about voltage drop aside, 14 gauge wire is not suitable for carrying more than 15 amps. Depending on how many electrical things you intend turn on at once, you could potentially overload (and overheat) that cord.

Olena

My T@B is simple and so far the 14 gauge cord has been OK. I run the fan, the waterpump, USB to charge the iPad, the odd light and when on shore power the electric kettle. My T@B does not have A/C, microwave, Alde, entertainment system or fridge. I will guess that the kettle is my biggest concern with the 14 gauge wire.

What is changing in 2021 is that I am adding a small Dometic portable compressor fridge (12V DC connecton only).

I need 75 feet of cord because the places I camp have the pedestals quite far away. I don't mind buying a long 30amp cord if the consensus on the forum is that it would be safer. As I mentioned, my camping experience is with solar/battery and not shore power. 

What is the consensus? Should I buy a long 30amp cord and a portable EMS? I have the 25 foot Nucamp cord - can I add a 50 foot cord to that? I saw on the KOA RV 101 video that you can do that as long as you keep the connection raised and dry in a box.

Tampakayaker

Olena said:

My T@B is simple and so far the 14 gauge cord has been OK. I run the fan, the waterpump, USB to charge the iPad, the odd light and when on shore power the electric kettle. My T@B does not have A/C, microwave, Alde, entertainment system or fridge. I will guess that the kettle is my biggest concern with the 14 gauge wire.

What is changing in 2021 is that I am adding a small Dometic portable compressor fridge (12V DC connecton only).

I need 75 feet of cord because the places I camp have the pedestals quite far away. I don't mind buying a long 30amp cord if the consensus on the forum is that it would be safer. As I mentioned, my camping experience is with solar/battery and not shore power. 

What is the consensus? Should I buy a long 30amp cord and a portable EMS? I have the 25 foot Nucamp cord - can I add a 50 foot cord to that? I saw on the KOA RV 101 video that you can do that as long as you keep the connection raised and dry in a box.

Yes you can add a 30 Amp extension.  Amazon is your friend for that.

I took a plastic box with a latching lid and cut a notch in each end at the top lip for the cords to fit in. 

Plug the cords together, drop in the box and put the lid on.  The water would have to rise about 4 inches to get thru the notches I cut.

ScottG

Olena said:

My T@B is simple and so far the 14 gauge cord has been OK. I run the fan, the waterpump, USB to charge the iPad, the odd light and when on shore power the electric kettle. My T@B does not have A/C, microwave, Alde, entertainment system or fridge. I will guess that the kettle is my biggest concern with the 14 gauge wire.

What is changing in 2021 is that I am adding a small Dometic portable compressor fridge (12V DC connecton only).

I need 75 feet of cord because the places I camp have the pedestals quite far away. I don't mind buying a long 30amp cord if the consensus on the forum is that it would be safer. As I mentioned, my camping experience is with solar/battery and not shore power. 

What is the consensus? Should I buy a long 30amp cord and a portable EMS? I have the 25 foot Nucamp cord - can I add a 50 foot cord to that? I saw on the KOA RV 101 video that you can do that as long as you keep the connection raised and dry in a box.

Yep, sounds unlikely you would draw more than 15 amps in that scenario. Most of what you are using is powered by 12V from the converter--I'm not sure the maximum draw of the converter but I doubt it is that much. The place you would run into potential trouble would be running the Alde on maximum electric, or running the Alde on electric with some other appliance at the same time--situations not relevant to your circumstance. The electric kettle might be pushing the 15 amp limit.

While I agree an expensive RV power cable would be the best solution, it may not be absolutely necessary for your needs. I've occasionally used a 100' extension cord (albeit 12 gauge) to plug in my T@B and other campers in my yard and it works fine. YMMV! 

AirBoss

@Olena
Doesn't sound like you're drawing all that much. With no a/c, Alde, microwave, seems you're in good shape.

Simple test tho not conclusive. Plug the rig into a 15p circuit at home using the 14ga cord you have now and stretch it out full length.Turn on all those electric systems you normally run. If the 14ga becomes hot to the touch after a while you're drawing too much for the cord to handle. And on a long run from outlet to T@B there may well be a loss/drop in voltage.

CharlieRN

Denny16 said:

Also per the OP’s original question, the shore power connection is under the diver’s side bench, not in the front tub.

Thanks for this. Since I don't yet have my camper (hopefully next month), is there sufficient room for something like the EMS-LCHW30? If I recall correctly from the video I saw, there's quite a bit of stuff in there already.

rh5555

A bit late to this post, but a couple of comments:  We have an EMS-HW30C installed in our trailer, and I've never noticed any hum (nor has DW, who is very sensitive to such things).  I'd suggest that @sqrpeg check that their unit is properly screwed down, a loose installation might be the cause of the hum. The only difference between the EMS-HW30C and the EMS-LCHW30 is that the former has a remote display, whereas the latter has the display built-in.  You do occasionally need to see the display so you'd have to locate the EMS-LCHW30 somewhere you can see it.  The advantage of the EMS-HW30C is that you can tuck it in anywhere there is room - you never have to access it again (ours is under our wardrobe).  But if you go with the EMS-HW30C, be aware that the remote display is bright, and numbers keep changing as it cycles through Voltage,Current, Frequency, Errors, etc.  Position it somewhere that it won't annoy you.  Ours is inside the wardrobe.

Denny16

Charlie, you should be able to use a good 10/12 gauge 20-amp contractor’s type outdoor ext. cord, available in 25 and 50 foot runs.  I use the Yellow Jacket brand cords, and they work quite well for 10-15 amp loads on long runs.  

The larger ext. cables reduce the chance of voltage drop over long runs, and would work also for an Alde set at 1KW.  

Cheers

CharlieRN

Denny16 said:

Charlie, you should be able to use a good 10/12 gauge 20-amp contractor’s type outdoor ext. cord, available in 25 and 50 foot runs.  I use the Yellow Jacket brand cords, and they work quite well for 10-15 amp loads on long runs.  

The larger ext. cables reduce the chance of voltage drop over long runs, and would work also for an Alde set at 1KW.  

Cheers

I think this response is meant for @Olena.

Ironically, I've been planning to buy some heavy-duty extensions to use with my new electric home brewing equipment and just purchased what looks like a decent 25' 10/3 at a very reasonable price. I'm sure it will come in handy for the T@B as well. Generally prefer to buy locally but at about $30 (with coupon), this was too good to pass up.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08MSYNGL8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Denny16

OK that should work 
cheers 

sqrpeg

(Apologies for straying from OP’s question) Thanks @jkjenn and @rh5555 for your input on my particular experience with the EMS-HW30C hum. As I mentioned in comments on that other thread, I did receive and install a replacement relay from Progressive Industries but it had the same issue. I thought about trying a rubber mounting mat like @RollingBnB had done, but was too lazy and just got used to it instead.

While a few others described having similar experiences at the time, this was all back in early 2018 – maybe it's been fixed/addressed in later units.

rcarlson1957

Got a PI 30 amp portable EMS. I usually lock it down to the post. Was going to eventually get and hard wired one but had my portable get trashed at a private campground and thought it would've been a hassle to replace a hard wired one. I use it in my garage with a dongle when the T@B is home in the driveway. Can always see with a glance what's going on with my shore power then. Guess the hard wired vs portable is a personal choice for most. Both have their pros and cons.