Alde heating

toni

I have a 2017 T@B Q Max with the Alde heating system. It works on electric or gas, with electric being priority if you have both on at the same time.  When I have electric off and the gas on in the Alde system It seems to heat inconsistently.  For example we went camping for three days this past week and the first two days it heated fine but the third day/evening it tried to kick on then went off several times before showing “gas failure” message.  By trial and error ultimately, I think, when we resort to tapping the “reset” button under the tools menu it seems to work again.  Can anyone shed light on why this is happening?

Denny16

How is the gas in your propane bottle, sounds like low gas.  Propane has a sulphur additive to give it an odor.  When the gas gets low in the bottle, the propane to sulphur additive ratio becomes more of the latter lane less actual propane you have to burn.  The sulphur mixture does not burn very well, so the Alde shows a gas failure.  

This happened to me when I ran the gas down in our TaB.  If you have gas turned on, the Alde will burn gas, even when electric is priority when the temp drops.  The stove still lights in this situation, but burner is not as hot and you can smell the gas more due to the higher concentration of the sulphur mixture.

cheers

toni

We did go and check the propane gas bottle but it has plenty of gas according to the gauge.

Sharon_is_SAM

@toni - just to confirm, you were plugged in to shorepower running both electric and gas.  Then we’re you boondocking and only using gas?  If so, how was your battery voltage?  The Alde will kick off with low voltage.  

toni

Hi Sharon, We were boondocking.  We had the electric off and the gas on on the Alde panel.

Sharon_is_SAM

@toni - do you monitor battery voltage ?

toni

Hmm, we look at the panel in the trailer that tells you fresh and grey water along with what the battery is at.  Is that what you mean?

Sharon_is_SAM

Yes, that does give you voltage readings.  When the Alde quit, do you remember what your voltage was? The Alde still uses battery power when boondocking on battery.   Boondocking for multiple days using with the frig, Alde, lights etc can deplete your battery.  Do you use solar?

toni

As I recall it was 11.3. The fridge.  was on gas, used the lights little, 

Sharon_is_SAM

Your battery was depleted.  

toni

well it happened again this past weekend.  The battery was fine.  It was in the range of 12.5 volts  when we thought we would try and see if we could get the boiler running and the heat set to 61 for that night.  I could hear it trying to start several times but then the gas warning (yellow triangle) came on again and said gas failure.  Any ideas?  could it be a fuse?"  Thanks in advance.

pthomas745

If your control panel was working, the Alde fuses on the unit were ok.  The "gas warnings" and other mysterious warnings are just that...mysterious.  Only some Alde programmer might know what they mean.

One solution to clear the error is to "reset the 12V for the Alde."  Basically,  just turn the trailer 12V power off, wait a few minutes, and power back on. Details here.

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/11818/alde-red-alert-warning-for-nucamp-tab-s-320-resolved

If this persists, it could be something like air bubbles in the Alde glycol.  There will be a couple of things to look for.

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/11060/question-about-bleeding-an-alde-3010

Sharon_is_SAM

Does your stove light up and run ok?  How full is your propane tank?  I think I would change tanks and slowly open the tank, then light the stove to clear air out of the lines, then turn on the Alde.  

From the 3020 manual:  

” Gas failure: Out of gas or gas is not igniting. Check that the gas cylinder is full. Try a different gas cylinder, ensuring it is propane gas. Check the gas regulator and that any isolation valves are open and not frozen. Ensure that gas is available.”

Another thing is check for the High Altitude Mode.  Not saying this is the problem, just curious if that is a factor.

16. High altitude mode

The function only needs to be used if the- hydronic heating system will be powered by LP Gas at altitudes above approx. 3,000 ft (1,000 m).

If the LP Gas burner runs unevenly at these altitudes, turn off the furnace (see section

1, Starting the hydronic heating system” on page 16) and then start the hydronic heating system in high altitude mode.

When heating with LP Gas at high altitudes, use propane to help obtain stable combustion.

toni

pthomas745 we tried what you said (per the photo), even though we are having a "gas failure" warning not a overheating one.  It did not work.  Sharon, we had our propane tank filled before we left, so I am sure it is full.  Could there be a fuse somewhere that needs changing??

Horigan

@toni
Sometimes if you open the propane tank valve quickly it will set off a safety shutoff feature on the propane tank.  If your stove works this isn't the issue.  If your stove does not work, try closing and opening the propane valve slowly and confirm propane flow at the stove.  Then do a full 12V power down to reset the Alde and try again.

toni

Our stove and refrigerator worked fine.  Just can’t get the heater to work.  “Gas failure” is what we get after about thirty seconds of it sounding like it is kicking on and off.

Denny16

How full is your propane tank, when it gets low, the sulphur additive in the propane starts coming out in higher concentrations, and some gas burners, like the Alde will not light.  This happened to me, got a gas warning after running it several nights and days, then the warning came on.  Stove still worked, but the Alde would try to light, then go into gas warning (yellow triangle is a warning symbol).  Changed bottles, and everything worked again, including the Alde.
cheers

Sharon_is_SAM

@Toni, if the Alde fuse was blown, I don’t think that the control panel would display.  Clearly this is a LPG issue.  I would exchange your 20# tank and see what happens.

N7SHG_Ham

I don't think the Alde would try cycling on if it was a power or fuse issue. The trying and not lighting, is indicative of either the Alde not lighting the burner, or lighting it and not sensing it and then shutting down. Not exactly sure how the Alde works, but there has to be positive exhaust flow detected pre ignition and then positive detection of a flame within a preset time of the gas valve opening on a home gas furnace. I suspect changing the propane may very well fix this, otherwise look for bad combustion fan, bad control board or bad flame sensor, most, if not all of those are probably outside the ability of most ownersbtobfix. For my home furnace I can troubleshoot and repair most of those now since they are very common failures on my York home furnace.

toni

So far no success with our Alde heating on gas.  Does anyone live somewhere near me, that they would be able to recommend a reputable service repair shop?  I live in Santa Barbara County.  I could also take it to someone in San Luis Obispo County or Possibly even Ventura county.  Thanks.

Sharon_is_SAM

@toni - propane tanks have valves that can be problematic.  Before you invest any money and frustration into a dealer visit, the cheapest alternative is to replace the tank.  That is suggested in the Trouble Shooting guide for the Gas Failure message.

toni

Thank you Sharon_is_Sam.  So I switched out tankes ( getting the replacement filled first).  A follow up question:  if I want to use the Alde heating only with propane.....on the panel do I turn off the electricity icon and turn on the gas icon only?  (OR do both have to be on for the system to work?)  The way the book reads; if you have both on the electricity/electric will take over.

Sharon_is_SAM

@Toni If you are on shore power, and you only want to heat with LPG, turn off the electric icon to “0” and turn on the gas icon to green.  On shore power you do have the ability to run both fuel sources for cabin heat.  The way it works is you set your thermostat.  Turn on electric and gas at the control panel.  The electric elements start to heat the cabin.  If the cabin temperature is 2-4 degrees below the thermostat setting (or the cabin temp drops relative to the thermostat) the gas will kick on and bring the cabin temp up to the thermostat setting - then the gas turns off, until the temperature drops again.  The 3020 Alde model I believe has a setting to choose your heating “priority” - that is choose to heat with electric first unless the temp drops.  I think the 3010 model defaults to electric as priority.  Make sure your glycol pump is set to Therm not Continuous and that your day and night settings are appropriate or off.

If you are on battery then your only option for heat is gas.  Your electric defaults to off.  

Heating only water in the summer requires you to turn the thermostat down below ambient to prevent the glycol from circulating and heating the cabin.  

ChanW

Another possibility is a blocked exhaust, if the bee season is active in your part of the country. Mud dauber wasps are known for plugging up propane exhaust ports with their nests.

AirBoss

May or may not help but perhaps a type of hard "reset" may help. 

Remove the square, black cover on top of the Alde. You should see three wires connected to a terminal block. If I recall one is an ethernet lead. Unplug all three of these. Wait one minute, then plug them back in. 

Had a similar problem last year and this "hard reset" did the trick. Dunno...but good luck! 

ChanW

I might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that's the 12v supply to the Alde you're referring to. Probably equivalent to disconnecting the battery while the shore power is off... 

Good idea to do a hard reset in any case!

AirBoss said:

May or may not help but perhaps a type of hard "reset" may help. 

Remove the square, black cover on top of the Alde. You should see three wires connected to a terminal block. If I recall one is an ethernet lead. Unplug all three of these. Wait one minute, then plug them back in. 

Had a similar problem last year and this "hard reset" did the trick. Dunno...but good luck! 

toni

Air Boss, thanks.  Which one of these do you want us to unplug.  I assume we are in the right area (under the black/dark gray removable lid on the Alde system under the seat.

Photo too large and deleted.  Please resize before posting.  https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/47/what-size-should-my-posted-forum-photos-be#latest

pthomas745

@toni Here is a photo of what you (might) be looking at in the Alde 3010.  The cable between the two fuse holders is the "12V DC"  cable which provides the battery power (12 volt) to the Alde.  The little schematics and diagrams are the key.

AirBoss

Here's what the 3020 looks like. May or may not help. I pulled all three...waited one minute...plugged them.back in.