400 mattress replacement and Froli delete

rhyno

400 owners - we need advice to replace the stock (dark gray) Froli and mattress pads. Our new 2021 400 has the Mattress Insider 2" topper we bought before delivery and we are both 200+ lb side sleepers. We bottom out in our hips and shoulders, flattening everything including the Froli mat. Our first week long shakedown trip left us both pretty sore. 

We are thinking of removing the Froli since it is useless for us, and getting a Full size memory foam mattress close to the same height as the original bed system. That way we can still get to the compartments for battery and Alde maintenance while not being too tall for the Alde vent at the back of the bed.  We may put the topper out for sale since there's nothing wrong with it, it just doesn't work for us. Have any of you found a good 6-8" replacement mattress? 

Denny16

Rhyno, you could replace the gray Froli with the blue a d red star Feolimsystem, thst allows you to firm up the Froli mat under your hips and shoulders area.  This is what we did, along with a 2.5-inch topper (a latex foam setup), and we sleep comfortably on this setup.  Before adding the red star bits to the blue Froli supports, we bottomed out the setup also.  The stiffer Froli setup works for us, and we are in the same weight category as you are.

Replacing the mattress is another option, but a thick, one piece mattress is going to be heavy and awkward to move out of the way of accessing the storage and batteries below.  Perhaps a thinner firm boat custom mattress with a foam topper would work, then you can roll the topper to one side and lift the rest, or have the under layer in three panels per the original, but firmer.  Another option is a modular bed like the Flo beds, which can be custom ordered.
cheers

rhyno

@Denny16 thank you for the suggestion. We contacted Elke with Nickle Atlantic for suggestions earlier. With the cost of upgrading sections of the Froli that we aren't certain will work AND having to compromise on a thinner mattress if we were to keep the Froli in play, I think we're going to stick with looking for a 6-8 inch replacement mattress. The ones we are finding are in the 30-40 lb range and we'll roll it up when we need to get to a compartment. I figure someone on here must have done the same so hoping to get some feedback on that front.

Dutch061

Go back to Mattress Insider and they can build you a mattress to your specs if you explain to them what you want to do. Sorry the topper didn't work out, I am right at 200 lbs. and a side sleeper and have zero issues. In fact we bought a second topper to put on our sleep number bed at home.

Brad

rhyno

@Dutch061 We have a bid out to Mattress Insider pending and thanks for the tip. I'm convinced that the quality of the bed cushions isn't what it was in the past. We contacted nuCamp and they said the dealer could confirm for sure, but that they didn't think it would end up being a warranty issue, inferring in not so many words that our weight is the culprit.

Sharon_is_SAM

@rhyno - would it be better to get 2 or 3 mattress sections that you could stack to allow access to the under bed compartments?  The TaGs have 2 mattresses that stack.  Also, is it possible to have the upper half or middle third sections made firmer for support where you need it?

Or something like this:

USSBird

@rhyno thank you for starting this discussion. We don't have our T@B yet, but this was a concern as I am of similar proportions and a side sleeper too. I was going to order the Froli Star Expansion 12 Pack @$42 to replace and stiffen the hip & shoulder stars.  I take that isn't what Froli  recommended to you rhyno?

Please post up what you do find and hopefully your comfortable solution.  As usual helpful advise and learning from others on this site is priceless.  Thank you all!

rhyno

USSBird said:

@rhyno thank you for starting this discussion. We don't have our T@B yet, but this was a concern as I am of similar proportions and a side sleeper too. I was going to order the Froli Star Expansion 12 Pack @$42 to replace and stiffen the hip & shoulder stars.  I take that isn't what Froli  recommended to you rhyno?

Please post up what you do find and hopefully your comfortable solution.  As usual helpful advise and learning from others on this site is priceless.  Thank you all!

@USSBird - Keep in mind that the 12 pack includes 10 firm and 2 soft stars and only 2 stiffener springs. We were looking at having to buy enough stiff springs to cover 2-4 rows of 9 of the stiffer stars (if we went with a narrow distribution) and at least 1-2 of the 15 packs of tensioner springs. That would require 2-4 12 packs plus the stiffener spring packs to get enough to cover the necessary rows. You can buy individual stars at $3.50 each, but those do not come with the tensioner, even though they are pictured like they do. Sizing is also misleading, as the stock Gray Froli has 9 springs per square foot compared to 4 with the Star model. 

At the end of the day, the above $100-200+ experiment would still leave us with needing to find a better mattress since that is squashed flat as well, making us think the Froli delete+new mattress will likely be the way we'll go.

USSBird

@rhyno Thanks for the explanation. I can see your logic in the alt-control-delete froli mattress reboot and replace solution.  Good luck and let us know how it turns out.

Tundra57

Just an FYI. I had spots too soft for me, my 2020 Tab also has grey Frolis. Their solution which works, is to buy the sets of springs for the areas which sink and just set them inside the originals. Remove the screws and put longer ones in for both sections.

I found that memory foam mattresses go hard as rock in the winter so i chose a thin 4" one. Also if you are using a thicker mattress, be careful you dont cover the heater vents under the picture window at the back. The seperator can get squashed and cover the vents.

I cut my thin mattress into sections the same size as the bed higed sections and used cot sheets to hold them on the original mattress. Works well for me.

rhyno

@Tundra57 - did you nest the same color Frolis and did you break the mat to nest individual springs or just nest the new mat section over the old? I know they have a lighter gray version that is less firm than the dark gray springs.

USSBird

@Tundra57 If I could impose on you to post a picture or two of the Froli and the mattress modifications?   My appreciate would be endless.

VictoriaP

@rhyno No mattress advice, but if you’re going to delete the Froli, you may want to look into some sort of protective liner between the mattress and support platform. RV mattresses are notorious for mold due to condensation buildup beneath them. I think Mattress Insider has a special liner material they sell to combat that...at least, I think I remember seeing it there previously.

rhyno

We did it! The Froli and thin pads have been replaced with an 8" Tuft and Needle "Nod" mattress sold through Amazon. It is a night and day difference. No more bottoming out and we are sleeping much better. We bought an encasement cover for it and will monitor for any issues. It is a little unwieldy for accessing the compartments but doable. We will gladly trade that small, occasional inconvenience for a good night's sleep. 
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07J2VZ177?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title

ChrisFix

@rhyno
Just curious - why not just keep the Froli with the new mattress? It would help with the moisture issues and wouldn't degrade the comfort of the new mattress (I would think it would marginally improve it)?

rhyno

@ChrisFix we tried with the Frolis initially. It put the height about two and a half inches higher than the old setup and just above the rear vent with the bedding added. That, and with much less compression I found that the rear side of the bed felt much more coffin-y due to the ceiling being closer than with the old mattress. Without the Frolis, the bed is just below the rear vent with the bedding in place.
As far as moisture concerns go, maybe we have just been lucky but neither of us growing up had problems in the various pop-ups and trailers our parents owned over the years, and our old Rockwood had a sleep number RV bed sitting directly on the wood platform without issue. We have always stored campers between trips with a couple big dri-z-air buckets so maybe that has played a role?

Denny16

You could also just prop the mattress up in the morning to allow air under it.  That is what we did on boat bunks before the Froli system was used.
cheers

USSBird

@rhyno thanks for the post and follow up. Glad you found a restful solution!

Tundra57

Ill post pictures when I get to my camper shortly. I bought the squares, i assume since they were new at that time that they would be the thicker ones. I thought they were the blue ones you can use the tighteners with, i bought some and Froli let me return them for full refund. (The blue ones were shown in the 2019 brochure, but it was wrong they changed them after the 2018 model).

USSBird

rhyno said:

We did it! The Froli and thin pads have been replaced with an 8" Tuft and Needle "Nod" mattress sold through Amazon. It is a night and day difference. No more bottoming out and we are sleeping much better. We bought an encasement cover for it and will monitor for any issues. It is a little unwieldy for accessing the compartments but doable. We will gladly trade that small, occasional inconvenience for a good night's sleep. 
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07J2VZ177?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title

Hey @rhyno would you still recommend the Tuft and Nod?   We just spent weekend #4 in our T@b 400BD and two things are becoming very apparent: #1 the memory foam topper on the factory sleeping pads and Froli aren't very good past the 2nd night of the trip. #2 the dinette cushions aren't great either.  I would much appreciate any follow up on your mattress solution.

rhyno

@USSBird YMMV but we traded out the Nod and got a mattress Insider model that is thicker but totally worth it in our opinion. We went with a 8" Park Meadow Pocketed Coil Mattress II model through mattressinsider - 54" x 80" and paired it with a a Tochta HyPUR-Flo pad underneath to ventilate it. The bed sits about level with the Alde vent at the back of the bed area. I don't usually use a blanket so blocking the vent has not been an issue. 

USSBird

@rhyno thanks for your reply.  Appreciate your help!

USSBird

@rhyno We swapped the "mattress" cushions for the Mattress Insider 8" Park Meadow Pocketed Coil Mattress II as well.  Same size 54" x 80".  After opening it up I thought there was no way it would fit, but it does!  Important to make the mattress into a taco shape to move it into place.  We didn't remove the Froli, so it sits ever so slightly above the back Alde vent.  We will make a spacer of some kind if it becomes an issue.  The mattress is a game changer for this side sleeper. 

rhyno

@USSBird - That's great to hear and I'm glad you're happy with your new mattress! Let us know how the Froli holds up over time with the heavier mattress when accessing the storage bin, Aldi compartment, etc.