First overnight without shore power and no lights in the morning

Lawyerboy

Forgive me if this has been covered a million times.  Have 2018 cs-s and spent evening at a harvest host in GA last week.  By the morning, our single battery was so low, that the lights would not come on.  So, was thinking that maybe two battery set up is best.  So, is that two golf cart batteries?  And, if I am not the guy to set up, where do you go?  Do you go to an RV place, or an interstate battery location?  I read, if I recall, you need to set up the two properly to avoid burning out the system.  Thank you, and again, apologize if covered, I am sure, already.

pthomas745

Every battery question is different.....so, no worries.

The question should be:  what happened to the battery in the trailer in there now?  Why did it run down?  Has this happened before?  How do you take care of it?  How do you monitor it?  How is it stored or managed when the trailer is parked?

When you say the battery is "so low", do you know what it's state of charge is?  Did you check the connections at the battery to make sure they weren't loose, etc?  Open the battery box up, and take a good look. 

If this is the original stock battery, it is probably a Group 24 80 amp hour battery.  (Group 24 is the battery size).  If it is 3 years old, it might just have started to fail due to age.  If you have consistently run the battery down without monitoring it well, that can happen.  If you have a multimeter, see if you can find out the state of charge of the battery.  If you don't have a meter......get one, because you want to learn how to monitor your next (more expensive) battery setup.

You could also (if you are not on the road) take the battery to any auto parts or battery shop and have it tested. 

If this stock battery has met your camping needs, you can just replace it with another Group 24 battery.  An upgrade would be a Group 27 "AGM" battery, which will provide a bit of extra amp hours (about 100 amp hours, 50 of them usable.)  You would need a larger battery box, and the bigger setup will (most likely) fit in your current battery position.  You can do this for about 200 bucks, and if your current stock battery is meeting your needs, then this would be easy to do.

This is a Group 27 AGM battery.  Note the size is a bit bigger than your group 24.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00S1RT58C/?coliid=I2067L1222PJQW&colid=3DJSJON9VK2CS&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

If you feel you need or want "more" or a dual battery setup, things will get more complex as far as whether or not they will fit.  And, more pricy.  Lithium batteries are pricier still, and add another level of complexity for a battery setup.

Lawyerboy

Good morning and thank you.  I went to the camper, and it has a Deka Marine Master deep cycle, dp24 in it.  55 CCA and I suspect original issue because we did not install it, as the prior owners did.  It is marked Sept 8, which is likely 18.  If I go to the Group 27, and an agm, should get me to the morning with lights, if not running ac, which we know and did not run, or try.  We only drew power for the fridge in the galley and to charge phones.  Had the propane on, but did not really run the alde.  Will the group 27 fit in the tub without modification?  I look forward to hearing from you and thank you.  Simple solution is best for us, and more than likely, will only boondock one night while charging from TV to get to our harvest host, then on to a shore power site next morning, charging again, on the way.

pthomas745

So, that is a Group 24 battery.  They provide, on average, about 80 amp hours of power, of which 40 amp hours are "usable".  Note the size of the battery and the box.  The Group 27 AGM will be slightly larger by an inch or so on each length and width (which is why it has slightly more amp hours available.)  Most likely the larger battery will fit in there, but it is kind of  hard to see with the other box in there.

The group 27 battery is this size: Dimensions: 12.17 inches x 6.61 inches x 9.16 inches. Weight: 63.93 Lbs

The battery box will be slightly larger. For a single battery, there shouldn't be any mods necessary for the tub, you just have to make sure the box will fit.

The group 24 battery is around this size, and, of course, would just drop right back in to the box you have now.  10.3 x 6.9 x 7.9 inches

Here is a link to a group 27 battery box.  Take a close look at the box dimensions:  the base of the box is close to the size of the battery, but the large lid is bigger. Still should fit, though. https://www.amazon.com/NOCO-HM327BKS-Snap-Top-Automotive-Batteries/dp/B004W5SG6Y/ref=pd_bxgy_1/138-6666185-8630469?pd_rd_w=B8zQO&pf_rd_p=c64372fa-c41c-422e-990d-9e034f73989b&pf_rd_r=5AW7P008T8S8AG2FWKSD&pd_rd_r=e4d6598a-9132-4a52-bbb1-3865c8bccb83&pd_rd_wg=jyYNN&pd_rd_i=B004W5SG6Y&psc=1

Homebodyatheart

I upgraded to an Interstate group 27 before I took delivery in 2017. It’s still going strong! As for lights, why not get small solar lights, like Luci lights or other brands? Enjoy your journey!

Lawyerboy

Thank you.  I believe it a good idea to update to the 27 group agm.  I surmise that 3 years led to this.  I do keep it on a trickle charger when not in use.  Is that a problem?

ScottG

I have the NOCO group 27 box. It will fit in the old-style plastic tub, but needs to be repositioned at an angle. You can see my mod here.

Also, FWIW, that box will accommodate an Interstate group 31 battery as well. 

Lawyerboy

Funny, I was already on your post of your 27 modification in the box with the piece of wood.  So the wood is the piece with the hole in the middle?  Turns out, the battery in the tab 320 cs s is from May 2017, so time to update it.  Any position on keeping it on a trickle charger when not used or does that erode the life of it?

pthomas745

After a battery is fully charged, and if the battery switch is turned off and there are no drains on the battery: the "trickle charger" isn't doing much of anything. (What exact kind of charger are you using?)  A fully charged battery will just hold a charge all by itself for months.  Bottom line, keeping the trailer attached to a charger or shore power doesn't really hurt at all. 

Battery monitoring, no matter what battery you put in, will save you endless worry and guessing and hoping about the status of the battery.  Battery monitors come in many flavors and prices, from simple hand held meters, meters that attach to the battery and can be read on a bluetooth phone, inexpensive/expensive "shunts" that act like the electric meter at your house, etc.  I recently swapped out my original battery from my 2017, and I'm convinced that learning how to monitor my state of charge enabled that battery to last this long.

ScottG

Lawyerboy said:

Funny, I was already on your post of your 27 modification in the box with the piece of wood.  So the wood is the piece with the hole in the middle?  Turns out, the battery in the tab 320 cs s is from May 2017, so time to update it.  Any position on keeping it on a trickle charger when not used or does that erode the life of it?

Yep, the piece with the hole. The wood is just there to make the top of the existing frame level so you can mount the new larger box at an offset. 

I've never been a big fan of keeping batteries on chargers at all times. A good battery will hold a decent charge for some time. I just keep an eye on them and top up before trips, or as needed in the off season. Others keep their batteries on chargers (including the charger built into the T@B) full time and report no ill effects, so bottom line is I guess you can do whatever floats your boat.

That said, when you say "trickle charger," I assume you are talking about a modern smart charger. These will sense when the battery is full and taper off their charge current as needed so as not to damage the battery. The same can not be said of traditional trickle chargers--these should be removed once the battery is fully charged.

I also agree with @pthomas745 about battery monitoring. I'm on the "keep it simple" and use a basic voltmeter, but these do require some battery whispering skills to interpret what they are telling you. Lovers of tech and those with deep pockets prefer the more intelligent monitors such as those from Victron that eliminate any guesswork.

That $100 group 27 battery I installed (along with a 100W solar panel) lasted five seasons. It's still in ok shape but was starting to show its age. I now carry it as a spare, though I've yet to need it.

Lawyerboy

Thanks to all.  I will upgrade to the 27 size.  Now, which battery, as amazon reviews for one popular one are all over the place.  The charger is a smart one, that stops when the green light is on.  I would love to install a solar panel.  I have the SAE connector to the battery, so Scott G, if you have an ideal set up, would love to hear about the easy way to get a suitcase setup to the battery to keep her charged up when boondocking.  TY

ScottG

There is a bit of a margin between ideal and easy. I believe solar is a dish best consumed in small bites, so I'd suggest starting with a solar suitcase with an integrated controller. If you go with Zamp it should plug right up to your existing SAE post. Other popular brands like Renogy will work too, though you may need an adapter to make sure the polarity of the SAE is correct. There's lots written here about that issue.

That's how I started. Once I had a good sense of how things worked I reconfigured my system so I could get the controller under cover and closer to the battery. I've used the same Renogy 100W panel and controller for six years now and it still gets the job done... so long as there's sun.  ;-)

Lawyerboy

Thank you Scott.

Marceline

I estimate that the 2way fridge in the CSS uses about 30-40 amp hours per 24 hours to maintain 40 degrees. You can lower that number a little bit by turning off the fridge at night if it's cold (the fridge is sort of outside, after all). Leaving the fridge door open while scrounging for drinks and food will raise that number. I've gone so far as to cover the black fridge door in reflectix to try to keep it cool. If you want to run the fridge and you want to go 24 hours without adding back any power to your battery (solar or generator) you should be looking at a battery with a bare minimum of 90-100aH capacity. If you think that you might want to go longer without shore power (2-3 day weekends) you might want to think about the dual 6v golf cart battery setup (~200aH) or a lithium drop in replacement (~100aH).

pthomas745

I linked this one higher in the thread:  Universal Power Group makes many batteries for dozens of different applications.  A Group 27 100AH battery.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00S1RT58C/?coliid=I2067L1222PJQW&colid=3DJSJON9VK2CS&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

It is a decent price, and literally has been around for years.  There are reviews going back to 2016 on this battery. They have good warranty and return policy.

Like this one from 2016. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FND5fWUY85E

Lawyerboy

Thank you all.  I did look up this battery on amazon and recent reviews involved many or several quite negative, so I was a little concerned.  I also do not see the extra terminals like the one currently in the Tab, meaning the smaller threaded posts which is how my Tab is currently set up, with the larger posts untouched.

AnOldUR

Lawyerboy said:

... I will upgrade to the 27 size.  Now, which battery ...

Very happy with my Vmaxtanks, but admit limited experience. If you put "Vmax" or "Vmaktanks" into the forum search you'll get a decent number of opinions from members. I bought my T@B used and the battery was in bad shape. Research had me decide to wait for Lithium prices to go down and the Vmax seemed a good choice to hold me over. Also went with a Renogy suitcase with a Victron controller mounted in the tub. Happy with the decisions.

Da_Birds

Marceline said:

I estimate that the 2way fridge in the CSS uses about 30-40 amp hours per 24 hours to maintain 40 degrees. You can lower that number a little bit by turning off the fridge at night if it's cold (the fridge is sort of outside, after all). Leaving the fridge door open while scrounging for drinks and food will raise that number. I've gone so far as to cover the black fridge door in reflectix to try to keep it cool. If you want to run the fridge and you want to go 24 hours without adding back any power to your battery (solar or generator) you should be looking at a battery with a bare minimum of 90-100aH capacity. If you think that you might want to go longer without shore power (2-3 day weekends) you might want to think about the dual 6v golf cart battery setup (~200aH) or a lithium drop in replacement (~100aH).

We have a group 31 130AH flooded deep cycle and it easily lasts a weekend (about 48 hours off shore power or TV) as long as we conserve power (limited lights, no TV charging phones only etc). We do have factory solar but have yet to have good sun when boondocking.

The fridge is the biggest hog and we limit the amount of times we open the door. Drinks stay in a cooler. We allow the frig to cool down for at least 8 hours before we leave. We also freeze whatever food we can before stocking the fridge just before leaving for our trip. If there is any extra room we make sure it gets filled with frozen water bottles, ice packs etc..

It helps to get to know your fridge and how it cools in different weather/temps. We adjust as outside temps rise and fall during the day/at night. We check the temp with a thermometer we purchased when we need to open it and it has an alarm if the temp rises above 40. We try to have nothing perishable left when we go to bed the last night so it can be turned off or we put what we can in the drink cooler. Things like eggs, cheese etc don't need to be kept as cool as meat. In fact many things we Americans keep in our frig really don't need to be kept in there (e.g. condiments). Not only will it save you space to keep those items out of the frig but it will allow more space for things that can go in frozen which will help keep things cool.

That said, I would still like more power for longer trips with less need to conserve and monitor charge without having to rely on solar.

Lawyerboy

so batteries plus has a group 27 Duracell agm with 92 amp hours for about 200.  It comes with a 30 month warranty through their stores.  I was considering buying with a new battery box and angling on a piece of wood maybe placing grooves in the wood bottom so it rests in the frame below?  Thoughts?  Has to be improvement on the 2017 Deka marine flooded that couldn’t power lights early am on our less than 12 hour boon-docking experience.

Denny16

Sounds like a good plan.  Most AGM batteries is going to be better than your old flooded battery.  Good luck with the change out, and stay safe.
cheers

Lawyerboy

So the new AGM is in the new 27 size box.  I used two cut pieces of pressure treated 1 x 8 as a sandwich to create a floor.  Screwed the two boards together and then the box to the boards, understanding I would then strap it.  So, like ScottG, there is not a lot of room.  I did not angle it, nor move the tube for sewer in the tub.  So, my battery box cover will not fit on it.  Problem?  We keep the tub closed of course, but any issues without that cover on?

Lawyerboy

Fixed.  Cut to short side protruding vents on the cover for the battery box and it fits right on top of case, and strap in, mission accomplished.  Thank you everyone.

pthomas745

Good for you!  Send pictures!

Swanny

MAYBE- I have a 2015 320 CS and found a little glitch that draws on my battery that you could check. Everytime I turn the battery on for a trip, the light in the clam shell comes on, even when clam shell is closed, and I didn't know.  So it draws on the battery. 
   Now, as soon as I hook up for a trip and turn on the battery, I run around and open the CS and shut off the light. Battery doing much better. 
  

Sharon_is_SAM

Sounds like you have a short in the light.

Lawyerboy

So I installed a size 27 agm from batteries plus.  A Duracell 92 ah with 10% off coupon. 30 month warranty. There is a natural shelf for the size 24 battery box. I used some 1x 8 inch thick, a pressure treated. The 8 inch wide is actually 7.5 so perfect. The length is just about 10 and 3/4. I used two boards same cut to fill in the size 24 shelf in the tub. That raised it and then screwed the size 27 box to it and couple of screws board into board.  Box and battery in.  The the two cover vents on the long sides cut away with snips and cover just fits without any angling.  Here is my pic.