Anti-freeze pumped onto the ground

Nanabirdie

What have I done wrong? Winterizing the 2021 with anti-freeze....followed all the instructions, so I thought. 1) opened Hot/Cold/Fresh valves and drained (left them open as nowhere did I see I should close them), 2) Lifted yellow valve to drain the Alde Hot Water Tank (also left open for same reason) 3) Attached hose to Winterize (left) side of Nautilus & put other end in anti-freeze jug 4) Lifted up the red Alde ByPass lever , 4) Set green and blue valves to horizontal (winterize) 5) Turned on the water pump.....1/2 gallon went right onto the ground in about 20 seconds. It's coming out directly below the Nautilus panel. What have I missed?

[Deleted User]

You left your water valves open so of course it's going to come out on the ground just like the water. Close your valves and try it again.  

Nanabirdie

Thanks-that makes obvious sense! I'll try again. 

bergger

Yeah sounds like low point drains were left open. 

[Deleted User]

No worries! You'll be a pro at it for next year! 

Nanabirdie

well still learning...I closed the low point drains, re-filled my jug and inserted the hose, turned on the pump. It runs, but no anti-freeze is being pumped in. Faucets are closed. Does the pump need to be re-primed or something? I sure hope something didn't freeze overnight...we're at 42F now but dipped into the upper 20's last night. 

Dutch061

Air locked, open a faucet while you are trying to draw antifreeze from the jug.

Brad

Da_Birds

Both the Nautilus P2 and P3 manuals have this step (6) before the steps where you pump in the AF:

6. Close drains on hot water tank & low point drains

P3 Manual

P2.5 Manual

What instructions are being followed? I also noticed the steps provided didn't mention blowing out the lines first as is part of the procedure in both manuals.

Nanabirdie

Thanks so much for these manuals. This is the issue with the 2021...I have several "instruction" sources... none of them directly from NuCamp. I did not receive a Nautilus manual. I don't know what model it is, but it looks different from either of these photos, tho the 2.5 is closest. I expected to have my dealer do this for me, but sadly he has suffered a stroke - and now it's snowing.  Since we're not in deep freeze/longterm storage season quite yet, and I intend to take it out again, I opted to follow advice that did not use the air blow-out step. The reasoning being that the anti-freeze would take care of most vulnerable places, and leaving the valves open would allow for expansion should any ice form. I've put a call into NuCamp, so waiting to hear from them....don't have a compressor...yet, tho I now see the need to get one. I followed what I thought was a very clear video specifically for the 2021 T@B 320. I've tried opening faucets...no change. For some odd reason, I'm also not getting power to the camper with the shore-power cord either, but I don't think that's related. I'm at a loss other than to start over I suppose. 

Nanabirdie

Well some success....three times a charm. With no power on, I opened a faucet and some water came out. Hmmm...so I closed the faucets, turned on the pump, and voila....antifreeze came through the sink faucet. I closed that...opened the bathroom sink faucet....antifreeze came through. Tried the toilet button...no response. Then the pump quit. Only a couple of cups of antifreeze seemed to have gotten in. It was quite cold...I wonder if there is some freezing going on. Hooray - the sun just came out. Does it sound like I should keep at it? Or turn on the Alde to add some heat? 

Sharon_is_SAM

If you bypassed the Alde, turn it on and heat the cabin until you are confident that AF is where you want it.  

Nanabirdie

This video was super-helpful posted in another thread by ScottG:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drdxGky_Xo0&t=4s

Da_Birds

I did not get a hard copy of the Nautilus manual either. I found it searching the web but it's also posted on these forums in the "Owners Manuals/PDF Files/Videos & Resources" section. If you have 320 it's the P2.5. It just doesn't have the Tank Flush option because the 320 has a cassette toilet and not a black water tank.

Nanabirdie

@Da-Birds....Thank you! Now that the sun is out, and I've heated the cabin all night, it's evident there was some freezing going on already while I was trying to drain the system. I was surprised, but grateful now to have a manual! 

ScottG

I'm glad the video by Paul the Air Force Guy and Steve Bain helped, @Nanabirdie. Note that I did not originally post it. It was posted by @TommySax, and there was some lively discussion about the credibility of the claims and whether or not they were consistent with existing nuCamp and Alde recommendations.

That said--despite the fact that they sometimes seem to be talking in circles--I do think the video is informative. Owners should watch it and decide for themselves whether to employ the recommendations therein. 

Da_Birds

That video only addresses winterizing the Alde System. Not only that it is from 2020. Not that it is not helpful or relevant but it doesn't address the entire process for 2021 T@Bs. My takeaway is that Alde says that draining the hot water tank via the low point drain is sufficient and anything else (blowing out the Alde or putting AF in it) is not necessary. The other options are available but they come with caveats you need to be aware off.

It seems to me people want to make this more complicated then it needs to be. There is a documented process in the Nautilus Manual. In that process you open all low point drains (this would include the Alde). I believe nuCamp recommends bypassing the Alde before pumping in AF and Alde confirms there is no reason to add AF. Going a step further, nuCamp has stated that not adding AF is not recommend (i.e. blowing out only). I'm not saying anything outside of the Nautilus Manual process is wrong or not something to consider. I just feel anything else complicates things because everything else comes with caveats that need to be understood. To bad nuCamp doesn't just come out and clearly state a recommended process.

ScottG

Da_Birds said:

...

It seems to me people want to make this more complicated then it needs to be. 
...

Well, yeah... that's what we always do!  ;-)  :-)

Seriously, my casual observations of recent discussions suggest a lot of confusion surrounding the use of the Nautilus system. This is not surprising, since the first wave of Nautilus owners are now facing their first winter.

I do get stoked talking about plumbing. However--while I can understand the Nautilus by studying diagrams--I lack any first-hand experience to be able to advise owners with confidence. At present, that is true of most everyone else here well. I predict next year there will be a contingent of Nautilus experts who will step up and smooth the way for the next crop of new owners.

As for the video above, I don't think the intent was to cover to winterizing in general, but rather only to address the recurring question about using antifreeze in the Alde. In that regard, it offers some good information.

Da_Birds

ScottG said:

Well, yeah... that's what we always do!  ;-)  :-)

Seriously, my casual observations of recent discussions suggest a lot of confusion surrounding the use of the Nautilus system. This is not surprising, since the first wave of Nautilus owners are now facing their first winter.

I do get stoked talking about plumbing. However--while I can understand the Nautilus by studying diagrams--I lack any first-hand experience to be able to advise owners with confidence. At present, that is true of most everyone else here well. I predict next year there will be a contingent of Nautilus experts who will step up and smooth the way for the next crop of new owners.

As for the video above, I don't think the intent was to cover to winterizing in general, but rather only to address the recurring question about using antifreeze in the Alde. In that regard, it offers some good information.

I've figured that out.....HA.

I agree with you that next year we will have a lot more experience as a whole on what works or doesn't work etc. That's why this year I just decided to go with what is clearly documented in product manuals and stated by manufactures. Hopefully none of us has to learn something new the hard way. Next year we should have a lot more people that can say been there, done that, it works/doesn't works.

The Alde video contained a lot of clarifying information. I found it informational. I just didn't see where that information related to this discussion. I will summarize the main points from the video below for those that don't want to watch the video or may be confused:

Draining the Alde via the low point drain is all that is necessary per Alde

AF will not hurt the Alde and can be used in it IF you do not need to use the Alde

If you need to use the Alde you need to use special high temp AF

Most interesting to me was that its pronounced Al-Da and not Al-De