Blowing out to winterize outside shower

jules2go

Sorry if this has been answered, but I couldn't find it here. Can someone please give me details on how to clear the outside shower of water when doing winterizing blowout? Someone posted about taking the outside shower apart somehow, but there was no elabobation. Thanks. 

Dutch061

Open the faucets  at a time while using your compressor to blow air through. No reason to take anything apart.

Brad

Sharon_is_SAM

I think @BrianZ is the expert on that one.  He said to blow out the shower outlet and hose, then remove the hose so water does not fall back into the shower outlet.

jules2go

Ok, thank you both. I'll look at the hose and see if it unscrews somehow, assume it does. Brad it sounds like you haven't taken it apart and just blew it out and haven't had any issues, that's good. 

BrianZ

I agree with what @Dutch061 said, although I like to get some extra insurance by adding a bit of antifreeze directly to the outside shower.
What I've done the last couple of years is documented with photos here..
https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/comment/119587/#Comment_119587

@jules2go, After I've blown out all lines in the usual way, I then go back & flush certain parts with antifreeze (the same quart of AF for all): First the outside shower lines (pushed in & out with compressed air using the homemade device shown at the above link), collect the antifreeze, then run it through the T@B's water pump, which is connected temporarily to the toilet water line so that the toilet flush valve gets protected too, as well as the toilet bowl valve & the black tank gate valve outside (maybe this may work for cassette toilets too?).  The only thing left is to pour some antifreeze in the shower drain.

@Sharon_is_SAM, I do reconnect the shower supply lines after flushing with & blowing out the antifreeze, but leave the shower head lever open outside.  Shower mixing valves should have some residual AF, so I close them.  I feel this method gives extra AF protection to the more sensitive/exposed components using only a modest amount of AF.
This does take some extra time, but I'm retired, and I only had to put together the special hoses & fittings once.

Dutch061

I should add that I always use some antifreeze after blowing out. Put a hose on the pump and stick it in a jug. Turn the pump on and use it to push through all the lines. Of course I put the Alde in "bypass" to prevent filling it with antifreeze. 

I also dump some into the black tank (beyond what I run through the toilet valve) and the sink in the bathroom and shower drain. Kitchen sink doesn't have a P-trap, shower may not either but since i have never removed the panel to look I just dump some to be sure.

Brad

Sharon_is_SAM

Sorry @BrianZ - it was @4ncar who suggested removing the entire shower assembly after blowing out.  

TNOutback

At least in my 2020 400, there are interior cut off valves to the outside shower.  After blowing out with compressed air, I turn those cut off valves off.  It is rare that I use the outside shower, so having those cut off valves are extra insurance when camping in freezing weather.  I don’t know if those valves exist in other models.

BrianZ

Interesting, @TNOutback. For those T@Bs where they are not already installed, @ScottG had previously suggested the idea of adding cutoff valves for those lines, if desired, like many of us have done for our toilets.  I had wondered how useful they would be, but it seems they could be very useful for those who camp in freezing weather.  One could shut them off inside, then disconnect & blowout, and even add some antifreeze just to the outside shower.

jules2go

How much air flow should I be noticing coming out of the various hoses/faucets/toilet when I've got my air compressor turned on when they're open individually? I'm not getting anymore water coming out of the lines, but the air pressure seem awfully low. I mean I can just barely feel it. The toilet seems to have the most noticeable air flow. I don't want to buy another compressor, but am paranoid that it's not putting out enough air. I had it set to 30psi to start with and that was def not enough, so I ended up at 45, but with the compressor running it shows something like 5 (or 0.5) on the digital display. 

Denny16

It is not the max air pressure an air compressor puts out, it is the volume rating of the compressor that is important when blowing out large water lines.  A small portable compressor designed to pump up a tire (tyre) will not have a large volume rating, which is measure in cubic feet Per minute (CFM).  The larger the CFM rating, the more air the compressor will output.

Setting the compressor PSI regulator to 45-50 prevents building up more than 45/50 PSI in the lines when blowing them out.  Once you open a faucet valve, the pressure is released and air will blow out.  

A small low CFM compressor will have a short burst of air, then will release its pressure and only a trickle of air will come out.  You need a large enough CFM compressor to get enough volume of air into the water lines to push out any remaining water.  You should the feel or hear a noticeable flow of air out the faucet.
cheers

jules2go

The tool I'm using is a Ryobi One+ inflator/deflator with the rechargeable battery. Ideally I'd like to have something better, but in lots of posts here I've read about people using this sort of device, I'm pretty sure. 

jules2go

I watched that video on this site of the
Fit RV guy doing his experiment of using a garden hose and a bike pump. It did help me to understand this process a little better. I think I'm going to pick up a better device, so I can rest easier at night. Probably after doing antifreeze last season, I'll end up going back to that process out of paranoia when I'm facing an artic situation. 

Denny16

Yes, a Ryobi One+ inflator/deflator without a reservoir (the garden hose with the bicycle pump works like a reservoir, allowing a larger push of air into the water system) isn’t going to work very well.  You could inflate your tire with it, then get a hose adapter to connect the water intake to the tire and use the air stored in the tire to blow put the water lines.  Then re-inflate your tire back up.

I have two portable nail gun compressors, a little one, that takes 20 minutes to fill a 5-gallon portable air tank (I use to blow out the water lines) and the next size larger one which has a bigger CFM rating and fills the tank in 5-minutes.  The larger compressor will also blow out the lines with its built in air tank, the smaller one will not.  Both are the same brand.  This is a case where size does matter!

Cheers 

Slackers

Back to the outdoor shower question, we just used the blowout method a couple days ago.  We only removed the shower head for the outdoor shower.  It makes for an easier path for the forced water to escape versus pin-holes of the shower head.  Once complete the head goes back on.

Pintoplumber

You can use these little compressors to blow out your water lines if you 1st drain the water heater. Close the water heater drain valve. Now the empty water heater becomes your air tank. Fill your system up to 35 psi or so and blow out 1 faucet at a time. 

Denny16

That is an interesting idea… 
cheers

BrianZ

Well, I just blew out our system yesterday, so I can add a few comments while things are still fresh in my mind..

Our air compressor has a tank that can hold 30G at 150psi, and the flow rate at 40psi is 9cfm.  While this may be overkill for a T@B, we need it all to blow out our lawn sprinkler system, and still have to refill it a couple times to get all stations done at least twice. For the T@B, I usually only need to get it to maybe 100psi or less to have plenty of air to do all water valves multiple times with each one open for a good 10 secs.  I've seen 3G compressors for less than $100 with a decent cfm rating that would likely do a decent job, and that's probably what I'd get if just starting out. 

I got this shot yesterday while using the air compressor hose with a rubber-tipped trigger blower to push antifreeze through the outdoor shower plumbing.  This pvc tube holds at least 3 cups, which I catch outside & recycle it through the water pump & toilet valve..


Before I did this treatment, I took apart the outside shower head after blowing out the system, just to see how much water might be left inside..

I was surprised there was this much left (1/4 tsp plus some very small drops).  I think when you're blowing out anything other than a simple straight tube, where there are multiple small orifices, turns, or pockets not in the main air stream, then water may "hide" & not get flushed out.  I took it all apart & dried everything.  I recommend this anyway, as ours originally had crumbling brittle rubber O-rings badly in need of replacement.  A good silicone replacement with some silicon plumber's grease will make it work like new, if yours is not spraying like it should.

I did have one new surprise this year..
When I was blowing out & opening the various low point drains, all gave the usual loud hissing until I got to the hot water line drain & there was silence.  I never had this happen before, but then I remembered..
I never got around to putting some screen inside those drains, as I saw recommended here when we were new T@B owners.  And sure enough, when I got underneath with a piece of flexible yet stiff enough 14G wire, I was able to clean out dried mud & insect parts from the drain hose.  I had to push it around the corner of the 90° turn to get it all out & get the air flowing again.  In the spring, it will get some extra flushing too & I can try out that new bottle brush we got.  So this is our 3rd encounter with the mud dauber wasps.  We had a nest on top of our A/C unit when the screen was torn, then inside our spare tire cover.  All the appliance vents have been covered though.  Live & learn!