Bike Rack Options Involving TaB Aluminum Cage

markbless

I have 2 e-bikes @ 56 pounds each. Looking for options other than stowing inside the TaB, racking on top of my TV, or racking on the 2 Yakima crossbars. 1st option / rear mount: Attach a Yakima HighRoad rooftop upright bike mount to the top aluminum cage member and the lower Yakima crossbar. I could cut loaded bike height this way. 2nd option / front mount: Mount the rack across the aluminum cage in front of the LP tub. Question: Could the aluminum bars in either location take the weight/stress?

This is my first post. Tried to read related posts but may have missed discussions on aluminum cage specifications and limits.

WayneW

Interesting questions.  I've been looking at options to mount mountain bikes on our 320 Boondock.  And welcome to the forum!!  There is a lot of good info here.

My first concern with your setup would be the weight of the e-bikes themselves.  I believe the Yakima HighRoad is rated to 45 lbs as per the installation instructions.  How easy is it to take the front wheels off and think about one of the racks with a front fork mount?  And how much weight would that shave off?

I think sharing the weight of the bikes between the lower Yakima crossbar and the aluminum rack is an interesting idea, especially since it would reduce loading height.  It's hard to pin anyone down on the rack capacity, but I seem to recall something around 100lbs.  I'm not sure the aluminum cage is rated for structural strength - at least I haven't seen anything.  Given that the weight would not be shared equally between the rack and the cage because of the slanted mounting, more weight would be shifted to the cage.  I know the cage is a great towel drying rack and works wonderfully to tie up the dog, but I'm not sure about static load or dynamic load as you bounce down the highway!

The front rack is pretty sturdy.  I've seen folks load up the front section of that with generators, water jugs, and other heavy gear.  But now you've got to think about tongue weight, another confounding factor!  But if you switch to a lithium battery that would make up some of the weight of one of the bikes ....  Some folks are using the Jack-it that mounts to the frame, but I've only seen it with standard bikes, not e-bikes.  I think the 2-place Jack-it is rated to 80 lbs.  

So I'm not sure I helped you any!  I'm thinking about mounting our 2 mountain bikes on the back rack without the front tire (maybe shared with the cage as you proposed to reduce load height), but they are standard bikes, not e-bikes.  Maybe for you, one e-bike on the front, one on the back???

Good luck!  I look forward to watching this thread and listening to other folks ideas.

Tabaz

Ditto everything Wayne states in his post above.  Prior posts on putting regular bikes on the rack have noted the maximum weight of the Yakima is further reduced because it is "on a curve" (i.e. not horizontal to the ground).  I can't imagine how the Yakima would support 112 pounds of bikes, plus the extra mounting hardware needed to secure them.  This is probably a really bad option.  Regarding mounting them on the tongue, please review your TV's maximum tongue weight.  Things start adding up quickly when you factor in all the gear we put in our T@B's and TV.  As an aside, I love, my folding electric bike. It fits comfortably in the back of my TV and does not affect my towing maximums.  Sorry Wayne and I are the only ones to respond to your inquiry.  Many of the more active (and smarter) forum members are located in colder climes and are now in hibernation until Spring.

markbless

Very much appreciate your input, WayneW and Tabaz. I love all of the valuable input provided in this forum.

WayneW, you are right! The instructions (but not the website) specify max 45 lb. so the HighRoad option is out. Back to REI. Thank you for finding this. Now I can return rather than sell as used. You saved me a lot of money and hassle!

1UP has a roof rack rated at 75 lb. This resolves the rack rating issue but leaves the front/rear cage capacity question unanswered. I think the Jack-it is too flimsy for heavy e-bikes. 
 
I may need to embrace inside stowage. It is cheaper and minimizes additional tongue weight. But it is like fitting a square peg into a round hole, and I'd like to avoid the interior wear-and-tear if a viable outside rack option can be found.

ChrisK

I have done a lot of looking and there are very few racks that will work with 2 heavy e-bikes AND work with our campers. I have a RAD e-bike and started with the Jack-It tongue bike rack. Total waste of money for mine since my bike has fat tires. The mounting bars for the tires are not wide enough. I emailed them and asked about this to inquire if they will be coming out with something because of the increased popularity of fat tire bikes, They just said no plans. Other problem with their rack and many others is they end up pretty high and you end up boosting your 50+ pound bike up pretty high to get it on the rack. We settled with a Swagman rack that mounts around the existing drop hitch It really is not rated for two of these bikes. Since my wife's bike is a light non-ebike, it kind of equals out. We have a lot of miles on this setup but it is showing its age from the weight (like many of us). I take off the battery and seat to reduce weight. It is still a bit of work to get the bike up on the rack. 
I have thought about fabricating a rack that mounts above the tongue rack but the problem is we like to take our bikes to mountain bike trails near where we camp. Can't do that if the rack is attached to the campground. 

Like others have said, you do have to watch tongue weight. We switched over to a lithium battery and that helped. We don't have a big tongue box and I regularly trim the fat and make sure we're not carrying excess stuff in it. 

Tabaz

My previous Ebike was non-folding.  In order to secure it to the rear cargo area of my Ford Expedition, I installed a front fork brace to the cargo floor.  Would take off the front wheel and secure the front fork to the brace.  However, if you have a fat tire bike, the locking mechanism on all the commercially available fork braces is too small.  Had to devise my own and it was a pain using it.  Just something to be aware of.  I now have a Rad Mini that folds into a somewhat compact profile.  Soooo much easier to take in and out of the TV.

markbless

Good point about driving to the trails and leaving TaB at campsite, ChrisK. I may want to bring my regular bike hitch rack for that. 

Folding e-bikes would be so much easier, Tabaz. May look into it, but we really like our current bikes.

DanWeitzel

This is what your roof rack is attached to in the trailer structure.  Light weight aluminum tubing. I'd be uncomfortable putting 112+ pounds on it.

 

ChanW

You might look into a pivoting fork-mount roof rack for your TV. It allows you to lift one end of the bike at a time.
I built one for my (kind of heavy) long wheelbase recumbent. It worked well.
Here's an example, the video shows how it works:
https://www.etrailer.com/Roof-Bike-Racks/Thule/TH558P.html

AnOldUR

DanWeitzel said:

This is what your roof rack is attached to in the trailer structure.

Dan, what do the last two pictures represent? Is that damage as the result of overloading a roof rack? I've been routinely carrying +/- 125lbs on my homemade rack. Don't like the thought that it could be failing under the shell where I can't see it.

VictoriaP

AnOldUR said:

DanWeitzel said:

This is what your roof rack is attached to in the trailer structure.

Dan, what do the last two pictures represent? Is that damage as the result of overloading a roof rack? I've been routinely carrying +/- 125lbs on my homemade rack. Don't like the thought that it could be failing under the shell where I can't see it.

The stock Yakima rack on the Boondock has a 70 lb limit. I wouldn’t exceed that amount.

AnOldUR

VictoriaP said:The stock Yakima rack on the Boondock has a 70 lb limit. I wouldn’t exceed that amount.

I don't know if it's for better or worse, but my rack is not a Yakima. It's made from spare parts I had in the shop and a Harbor Freight hitch basket. What makes me nervous is that the @DanWeitzel picture looks like it split clean across. I can't imagine a failure that would cause that. It does appear to be where a rack mounting screw went through one wall and the wire routing hole probably didn't help. I still don't see there being enough flex to cause that type of break. More details from Dan would be helpful.

Lots of mile on this with no signs of problems, but ....

markbless

Hi ChanW, the pivoting concept is great. I don't have quick releases on the front tires, so I might need to keep looking.

VictoriaP

AnOldUR said:

VictoriaP said:The stock Yakima rack on the Boondock has a 70 lb limit. I wouldn’t exceed that amount.

I don't know if it's for better or worse, but my rack is not a Yakima. It's made from spare parts I had in the shop and a Harbor Freight hitch basket. What makes me nervous is that the @DanWeitzel picture looks like it split clean across. I can't imagine a failure that would cause that. It does appear to be where a rack mounting screw went through one wall and the wire routing hole probably didn't help. I still don't see there being enough flex to cause that type of break. More details from Dan would be helpful.

Lots of mile on this with no signs of problems, but ....

No opinion on “better or worse”, but if the limit on the factory mount is 70, we know without question the roof is designed to support at least 70 in the location where nuCamp mounts the Yakima. What we don’t know if it can sustain more weight in that location, or whether or not your homemade solution with different mounting points on a different part of the roof can handle almost twice that weight without damaging the structure in ways you cannot see until it’s too late.

Personally? Not a chance I’d risk it. I tend to be fairly risk averse. Which means I’d operate under the assumption that the rear roof structure can handle 70 pounds total and design my load to remain under that limit.

markbless

I agree with your logic and conservative approach, VictoriaP. Still leaves possibility of one bike on rack across Yakima + aluminum cage.

VictoriaP

markbless said:

I agree with your logic and conservative approach, VictoriaP. Still leaves possibility of one bike on rack across Yakima + aluminum cage.

My understanding is that the “cage” is intended as nothing more than a lightweight (mostly decorative) brush guard. NuCamp has stated it cannot be used as a step to reach the Yakima rack, but I haven’t seen a specific weight limit for it. I would suggest you contact them regarding your intended use to confirm before putting any weight on it at all. My guess is that “towel rack” really is the best use for that cage.

Also, if I’ve read your post correctly, you asked about using the aluminum rail around the tire platform on the tongue as an alternative mounting point. Unless that aluminum rail has been changed since my 2019 (and I don’t believe it has), it too is not designed to bear any significant weight. I would again check with nuCamp before trying to incorporate that into any plans for carrying and ebike or two using that rail for support. 

markbless

Very helpful. Seems like inside bike stowage is the way for me to go for now. I so appreciate all of the help this Tabber community provides newbies like me.

Bill_F

See pictures below for some additional ideas.

Regarding loading on back of trailer, steel tubing inserted inside lower Yakima rack bar for additional stiffness. 

At front of trailer, original trailer tongue jack exchanged for tilt-up jack that folds up parallel to trailer tongue frame. No more smashing the protruding OEM lower jack stub at driveway dips, etc. Also allowed for installation of adjustable, two position, extendable trailer tongue.

The expanding and contracting trailer tongue was professionally installed and welded in. The extra trailer tongue length allows room for two electric bikes in front of the equipment box on a sleeve hitch bike rack mounted to the trailer (in my case using 1up bike rack) or a trailer mounted, removable motorcycle ramp. The receiving sleeve for the bike rack is also removable. With trailer tongue extended, full turning radius is then possible without bikes or motorcycle hitting the tow vehicle.

The trailer tongue is appropriately reinforced at trailer frame. It can be used at either stock OEM trailer tongue length or in the extended position to allow more room for the e-bikes or a motorcycle utilizing the separate, removable motorcycle rack. The adjustable trailer tongue is completely removed when not in use for additional anti-theft security.

Tows well and very stable at all speeds, arguably better than OEM configuration when loaded up and in the extended trailer tongue position.

Modification process was straightforward and relatively simple.

DirtyRanger

We're in the same position and have decided to get a pickup truck as a TV instead.  I know that seems drastic, but I think it is the best option.   The Honda Ridgeline is a fantastic little truck that drives like a car as it is basically a Pilot with a bed instead of a trunk.

Maxcamp8

We carry  the two halves off our home welded 89 pound steel tandem ADA three- piece(+) bike upright inside our pickup cap but also wish  for a trailer mount solution..

Bill F. has the right idea!

Not endorsing, thete are hitch extenders that might keep the bike with the vehicle while extending trailer tongue back for clearance.  Beware of crappy welds hidden under black paint however.

Dual Hitch Extender
https://www.harborfreight.com/dual-hitch-extender-69881.html

I am going to look into this concept myself and weld something up when i reweld our tray.

Also beware... Our 2021 tab 320 front aluminum tray came attached with only two 1/4 inch bolts through the wimpy c channnel trailer frame, and two #14 self sheet metal screws.  I redrilled frame for four 3/8 grade 5 bilts, plate washers to spread torque, and nylok insert nuts.  One good bump could have sheared the screws and pivoted tray and contents upwards torquing the propane line.

Also discovered you can jacknife backing up and crunch front of tray with bumper on a foggy night.  Extended tongue a necessity!

Out tacoma pickup tailgate height when lowered would have hit the original trailer jack.  Replacing jack with side mounted swing down type required fabricating a mounting/shim plate against c channel frame and remounting tray 3/4 inch higher for jack clearance 

Maybe american truck tailgates clear but i  tthink the factory tongue us way too short.

(+ Frame built with S&S couplers)

VictoriaP

Maxcamp8 said:

Not endorsing, thete are hitch extenders that might keep the bike with the vehicle while extending trailer tongue back for clearance.  Beware of crappy welds hidden under black paint however.

Dual Hitch Extender
https://www.harborfreight.com/dual-hitch-extender-69881.html

For those who are new to towing and may not know: Using a hitch extender cuts your tongue weight limit in half. Since most vehicles towing Tabs have between 350 and 500 lb tongue weight limits, a 50% decrease typically puts you below the tongue weight of the loaded trailer before you even load a bike on there. In other words, it’s not a good idea to use one with a Tab unless you have a vehicle with a tongue weight limit of 700 lbs or more, and have an accurate tongue weight on your loaded trailer so you can be sure you aren’t exceeding the new lower limit (a lot of people have no idea how much their trailer tongue weighs once they load up their rig).

Denny16

I second Victoria, extending the TV hitch is a bad idea, adds to trailer instability also.  Extending the TaB tongue is just the opposite, decreases your tongue weight, and can increase the trailer towing stability.  The issue is the distance between the TV and the hitch ball position, the further you put that ball pivot/trailer loading point from the TV axle, the less stable the trailer becomes.
Cheers 

AnOldUR

I'm always confused when I hear the statement that using a hitch extender cuts your tongue weight limit in half. There is no standard length for hitch extensions and a 8" extension would not have the same impact as a 18" extension. To make matters worse, the distance from the pin to the ball (shank length) is not consistent for ball mounts. I've purchased three different ball mounts to accommodate proper drop and the shank length is not consistent. They've ranged from 8-1/2" to 11". What impact does the 2-1/2" difference in shank length have? Is there a simple rule of the reduction in tongue weight limit per inch of extension? 

VictoriaP

@AnOldUR It was explained to me as being as much an issue of the weakness/potential failure point inherent in adding an extra connection into the equation as it was about the added length of an extender. Being a non engineer, I can’t say if that’s accurate.

I’d swear a while back someone found a extra long ball mount with a 2” hitch socket welded on top for a bike rack, and the engineers on that thread said it wouldn’t run into the same weight problem as the typical dual hitch extender. But I seem to lack sufficient caffeine to find that reference this morning. (may also have been another forum or a Facebook group) Edit to add: the ball mount used was similar to this one, but I’m not sure this has enough mount space between the top receiver and the ball itself to fit a bike rack. https://www.amazon.com/HiTow-Multi-Use-Trailer-Receiver-Extension/dp/B073TFH46X

AnOldUR

@VictoriaP, my non-engineer brain looks at it as what @Denny16 said above. It's the distance from the rear axle to the ball that would be the determining factor. I visualize it as, if you put a long enough bar into your receiver you could probably pivot your TV around the rear axle, but with a short one it would never happen. So the longer the shank length, the easier the weight of your trailer could impact control of the TV. Not sure if that makes sense?

VictoriaP

@AnOldUR I suspect it’s both. The problem with the connections would be that they’re the points where the system flexes the most while underway. Add in the extra length between the hitch and the new ball mount location, and the now trailer moves differently with a new pivot point, adding more stress on those joints. Now add 100 extra pounds of ebike onto the weakest point in your setup and run it over a bad pothole and it’s not hard to see what could happen.

But again, not an engineer. I’ve just heard the 50% rule repeatedly from them on multiple towing forums (and from the etrailer website), enough to understand that using a hitch extender is a bad idea unless you have a vehicle that can handle losing half its tongue weight capacity. Most Tab owners (especially 320 owners) aren’t using vehicles that can afford that…my offseason tongue weight with literally almost nothing in the trailer and only one battery up front is already at 215. If I were to add a hitch extender, my limit would be 175. Don’t have to be a math major to figure out that’s not going to work!

pthomas745

"Receiver Torque".  Towards the bottom of this "explainer" page.

http://www.visualsc.com/hitch_calc.htm

VictoriaP

@pthomas745 Thanks, very interesting link!

tphaggerty

DirtyRanger said:

We're in the same position and have decided to get a pickup truck as a TV instead.  I know that seems drastic, but I think it is the best option.   The Honda Ridgeline is a fantastic little truck that drives like a car as it is basically a Pilot with a bed instead of a trunk.

I tow our 2018 400 with a 2019 Ridgeline. Works well, have been across country once and about to go again. Climbed through the Big Horn National Monument, which is pretty challenging - no problem! We have the 6 speed auto trans, the new ones use a 9 speed with paddle shifters, supposed to be even better. Turn off Eco mode when towing, it is a much better experience, you actually accelerate immediately when you press the gas instead of sort of spooling up like a turbo. Plus, cruise control works much better, which is good because I get much better MPG when using it.

As for a bike rack, I put a front hitch receiver on with plans to use a front bike rack. After trying it out for a while, I’m going to switch to using the roof racks (factory installed). Or maybe one bike on each.  I didn’t mind the visibility, but didn’t like the way the wind pushes the bikes back (we have standard hanging racks) and how much they bounced around. Plus, there is a pretty big “bull horns” effect with the bikes sticking out in front (with a 4 bike rack)!!

markbless

I just returned from a boondocking trip in southern AZ. On our way home, we continued along the loop rather than return the way we came. The road quickly became severe. Soon there were no places for us to turn around. The Volvo had sufficient clearance, power, and torque, so we made it through. But the trailer jack grounded out multiple times even though the wheel had been removed and the jack was fully retracted. We made it home, but my drawbar was bent, as was the bottom of the trailer jack hitch. After some hammering and metal filing, I was able to slide on the jack wheel and lift the trailer off the Volvo.

In light of the above points about hitch extenders, I now see my drawbar was too long. Volvo's stock hitch is 5" long with a 1.75" rise. But this makes the Tab tilt down at the front and pulls the Tab in so close that jackknifing into the Volvo's rear is hard to avoid when backing the trailer. So, I replaced it with a 9.63" long drawbar with a 5" rise (Curt Class 2). But, it could not take the extreme forces.

I was thinking about changing my drawbar to 6.25" long with a 2.63" rise (Curt Class 2). This will be much closer to the Volvo spec. But it will not fully level the trailer and will prevent me from backing into tight spaces.

Now I wonder: would it be better to extend the Tab's trailer tongue? Is that possible? I have not researched it yet, but plan to.

Below are the three hitches/drawbars mentioned above. The one on the top is the bent one. The middle is the one I am considering, and the bottom one is from Volvo.

Sharon_is_SAM

Here are links to a previous discussion:

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/comment/179993#Comment_179993


 https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/12341/extended-a-frame-to-reduce-tongue-weight/p1