Alde system ran with tank full of winterizing agent

schwartzki

Evening all. Picked up my new T@B 400 6 hrs ago. Dealer did prep and rewinterized. They were aware I was dry camping first night. Well I get setup and get everything going and about an hour and a half into the alde system running I checked on the pump speeds and just because I opened the drains and heard liquid. Sure enough winterizer in the tank. So shut off the boiler and opened both drains.

 I know I need to flush the system and alde rewinterize before using again. 

Any permanent damage done to the alde system?

[Deleted User]

Hi there.  I'm not sure you have antifreeze in your Alde just yet..... what do you mean antifreeze is in the tank?

schwartzki

The Flow and Boiler was full of winterizing agent instead of water. 

[Deleted User]

Where did you see the antifreeze coming out? At your low point drains in the Nautilis? If coming out there I think you were just seeing the AF coming out of your plumbing lines. That doesn't mean it was inside the flow and boiler.  Someone will chime in shortly who knows the Nautilus configuration.  I had the old style 400 without the Nautilus so I'm not the best person to help you. 

pthomas745

The Alde Flow and Alde Hot Water Tank are drained with the "Yellow Flapper Valves".  And, is the "winterizing agent" you are seeing a nice pink color?  That would be the color of RV antifreeze to look for.

There has always been an element of "don't put antifreeze or bleach in the Alde tank" in the discussion threads here.  There has also been an element of confusion and doubt.  The Alde can handle antifreeze in the tank, but the caution is the Alde shouldn't be used with antifreeze in the tank.  Because, this: 

"Using the Alde to heat the cabin via the circulating glycol, will also heat the contents of the Alde water tank, and the antifreeze may heat beyond it’s recommended heat limit.  I don’t recall what happens to that overheated antifreeze, just the bottom line - avoid it in the Alde or do your antifreeze homework!"

How we are supposed to figure out when RV antifreeze boils to the temperature where it breaks down, and what may or may not happen to the Alde tank is anyone's guess.  Being careful with that nice tank is good, but unless the Alde was set to do something extreme, it probably is not an issue.  As Tabby said, "damage that quick" would be doubtful. 

Here is the thread where the quote above comes from, and concerns this same issue:

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/12870/anti-freeze-in-the-alde-heater

The "Denny16" comment in that thread will explain how to "flush" out the antifreeze when you get to that point.

Here is a thread with some pictures of the Yellow valves.  They may not be exactly the same spot in your trailer, but they should be easy to see.

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/7860/t-b-400-with-alde-3020-winterization

[Deleted User]

I don't think you had AF inside your Alde. I think you are just seeing what was in your plumbing lines. All the lines in your whole camper should be full of AF. 

Denny16

To answer @schwartzki original question you have not damaged the Alde boiler, or Flow tank running them with antifreeze for a short period of time.  Just flush the tanks several times and make sure the Alde bypass is in Winterize position (center red handle on the Nautilus panel) in horizontal position, and this will prevent antifreeze for going into the Alde system when you re-Winterize the trailer.
 Cheers 

schwartzki

I saw light pink coming from both the yellow flapper valves next to flow and the boiler. The water heater is set to bypass so should have only been the boiler and flow draining if my understanding of the water management system is correct. In any case I will flush when I get home tomorrow. Thanks for the feedback. 

Sharon_is_SAM

@schwartzki - sorry for your trouble.  Go ahead and flush the plumbing with the Nautilus in the City Water mode.  I agree with Denny - no harm should come from a short exposure.  Let us know if you need help rewinterizing.

I always say that many owners know more about the TaB than the dealer and this is proof positive.  

Bt0325

This past November was my first winterization with new 2021 CSS, and I wanted dealer to do this first winterization - not wanting to risk the warranty.  Instead of introducing antifreeze at the Nautilus and bypassing the Alde, the technician brought 4 gallons inside the cabin, disconnected the pump inlet hose and placed hose extension into each of the 4 gallon jugs to fill the system.

He said this was faster than doing it externally.  After driving away and thinking about what I’d seen I called the dealer service manager expressing my concern about antifreeze in the boiler.  Had I not been somewhat aware of what the correct procedure should be, I’d never given a thought to operating the Alde for heat on some cold night.  The dealer never advised me of the risk of antifreeze in the boiler.

The dealer offered to reservice the winterization - requiring another 300 mile round trip, while basically saying no harm, no foul.

I called NuCamp expressing my dismay of not having the “correct” process followed and that the dealer never even cautioned not to operate the Alde for glycol heating.  NuCamp expressed that they have hard time with dealers essentially doing their own thing - so to speak.

Anyway, antifreeze still in Alde, and I’ll do the empty and flush myself this spring.

[Deleted User]

Cant you still winterize via the water pump?  You just have to put the levers in the Nautilius in winterize mode, right?  Maybe he did that first? 

Sharon_is_SAM

@TabbyShack - @Bt0325s dealer bypassed the safety feature of the Nautilus by drawing AF directly through the pump inlet under the bed.  If they had used the properly set Nautllus, the Alde would have been bypassed and loading the Alde tank with AF would have been avoided.

[Deleted User]

I guess my question is if the Nautilius had been set to winterize and then go inside and put antifreeze in the lines through the water pump,  wouldn't the Alde still be protected from the anti freeze by the nautilius setting of "winterize" 

pthomas745

What the tech did was ignore the Nautilus, and all the Nautilus settings.  Went directly inside to the pump, and drew antifreeze into the entire plumbing system.  None of the Nautilus valves were in play at all.

Bt0325

pthomas745 is correct.  The Nautilus settings were never set for winterization and the antifreeze was filled throughout the plumbing and boiler system. The service manager said that there had been instances of small amounts of water remaining, after draining, in Alde boilers that had frozen, causing damage.  His statement was that it was best to have antifreeze in the Alde boiler - ignoring the potential for damage caused by boiling antifreeze.  I know antifreeze is in the boiler by witness of operating the yellow flapper valve and observing antifreeze draining from the boiler.  Here is picture of antifreeze used.

Sharon_is_SAM

Alde techs at the uCamp events have always indicated that draining the Alde water tank is sufficient.  They said that a little residual water has room to expand and is not harmful.  

Denny16

That dealer does not understand the basic laws of physics…. It takes more than a cup or so, of residual water left in a tank, with lots of room to expand, before damage can occur in a stainless steel pressure vessel like then Alde hot water tank.
 Cheers