Service Delays / Glycol Exchange Help

bergger

I'm not sure I understand what your asking about the Alde pump? Are you asking about using the Alde pump during the flush?  If so I did set the pump on its highest setting and used it to assist in circulating the fluids in the system, glycol and water.  It runs off of 12v so after unplugging the Alde, so it will not heat as it needs propane or 120v to heat, the circulation pump will still operate off the 12v.  The whole process for me took about 3 hours.  Next time it will be much quicker I'm sure.  

Prior to performing it I would search the radiators in you 2020 and find out which ones have bleeder valves. This will help you in bleeding the system of air and test the color of your glycol after the Century flush.  The number and locations of the bleeders seem to change over the years.  Our 2021 has 4, not including the auto bleeder right at the Alde unit.  One behind the bed door side on an extension tube, one under the sink, one under the porthole dinette window, door side on an extension tube, and on in the bathroom under the plastic cover.  I mostly used the bathroom and bedroom bleeders to get air out and to test the color of the glycol.  I did so because they were the easiest to access and one is at the beginning of the system and one is at the end.  

AnOldUR

bergger said:

... Are you asking about using the Alde pump during the flush?  If so I did set the pump on its highest setting and used it to assist in circulating the fluids in the system, glycol and water ...

Yes, I was considering using the Alde pump during the flush. It's good to know that it will work with the shore power and lp gas off. My assumption was the the Alde would fault out if there was no source for heat. When you say "assist" do you mean that you used another pump and the Alde pump was just to assist it or was all the pumping done by the Alde?

bergger

The Alde pump is only used to help circulate the fluids through the lines when flushing.  You need a separate 12v pump to actually pump the water and glycol out of the bucket and into the Alde reservoir.  

If you have not already go to this link and read the thread on how people have done the change.  Methods of pumps vary slightly and my little write up is on page 5 I believe.  

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/13409/switching-to-new-rhomar-glycol#latest

AnOldUR

@bergger that's a good write up and thread that I'll be referencing when I do the replacement. So much information that my head is spinning a bit, but I'll get through it. Probably will get to it early next week regardless of what I hear from the dealer or nuCamp. Hoping to find a source for the glycol other than the dealer who did the exchange, but not having luck so far. It's curious that Airstream wants $110/gal, Truma is $76.42/gal and my dealer was $30/gal.

https://shop.truma.net/products/alde-antifreeze-1-gallon

bergger

I think I paid $26.99 a gallon but the dealer said the price would be going up to closer to $50 a gallon soon.  If you can get it for $30 I would jump on it. 

AnOldUR

This is all way more confusing than it should be. I contacted Truma to ask about the price dependency. This is their reply after I sent them a picture of the nuCamp supplied "Rhomar" glycol packaging.

"Per the photo, that is a previous formulation of the Alde Glycol.  If your system has this in it already, then it would be safe to use.  If not, then we would recommend not using it, as we cannot guarantee that there wouldn’t be a chemical reaction between the two different formulations, which could potentially damage your system. If you ever need to top off the system in between glycol changes, simply use distilled water."

Still waiting to hear from nuCamp and/or the dealer to find out if what is in my system now is good. By all accounts, regardless of what they say, doing a second exchange will probably be in my future.

Anyone want to buy a well used 320S T@B?

ScottG

The idea of using the existing circulator pump for a glycol flush/exchange has been floated in the past, but I'm not aware of anyone trying it. You would still need to rig up an inlet to draw in fresh water/glycol, and an outlet to collect the old glycol/water.

While the circulator at high speed can certainly move fluid in the system for the purpose of air bleeding, whether it is powerful enough for an actual fluid exchange is the key question.

If you haven't done so already, you might check out this document. It discusses basic concepts as well as presenting a flush and fill method using an external pump. Many variations on this theme are proposed in the lengthy associated discussion. 

AnOldUR

ScottG said:

If you haven't done so already, you might check out this document. ....

The method described in that PDF document is the way I plan to go. Made up the adapters and hose from homebrew supplies that I had in the basement. Also using the pump that I had for chilling wort. Still have to pick up the new Alde glycol, but hope to do it tomorrow.

Here's another point of confusion from nuCamp. On their website they state:
"The Alde Antifreeze  CANNOT be mixed with any other old glycol.  If you are changing glycol or winterizing campers the system will need to be flushed with water and blown it out with air to remove all existing glycol.  Refill complete Alde system with Alde Antifreeze."

Can anyone comment on the, "blown it out with air", part?

ScottG

AnOldUR said:

...

Can anyone comment on the, "blown it out with air", part?

I take this to mean all the residual rinse water should be removed before the final fill with new glycol. Since water can potentially stay trapped in certain areas of the system, failing to do this could result in unwanted dilution of your new glycol.

AnOldUR

@ScottG do you think this is a necessary step? I haven't seen it in any of the write ups I've read. Since this is from a nuCamp service bulletin, isn't it the method that dealers should be expected to follow?

https://nucamprv.freshdesk.com/support/solutions/articles/44002156353-2021-glycol-change

Freespirit

Just some observations from someone who has replaced all tubing, convectors, circulation  pump and check valve from our 2020 TAB 320 due to corrosion.  

I followed @ScottG flush/exchange document with great success.  Again, thanks for your detailed documentation. 

From my experience, even after flushing 15 gallons of distilled water through the system I had residual Century fluid in the Alde loop (about a quart highly diluted, noticeable yellow tint). This was found in the low section of the Alde loop during the disassemble. In my 2020 320 there is a natural downward slope of 3 inches and 4 foot long from the convectors in the back to the convectors on the passenger side.  

IMHO, making sure this remaining fluid is removed is more critical if you are changing from Century fluid to Rhomar versus doing a flush and replacement. 

Since I do not have a low point drain, the only way to make sure my system was completely fluid free was to disconnect the hose from the passenger side convector. This was going to happen any way since everything was getting replaced. 

AnOldUR

It's been a week since nuCamp asked me for the name of dealer who did our exchange and I let them know who it was. My guess is that they contacted them, but since then I've heard nothing from either despite following up with both of them.

In hindsight, I should have not come here to the forum or gone to nuCamp before giving the dealer the chance to resolve the situation.

edited to remove my over reaction ...

Denny16

You didn’t name the dealer here on the forum, so no bridge burnt here.  I would try giving the dealer one more chance, and contact them again. 

Cheers 

AnOldUR

Two sheets in at a HH brewery puts life into perspective. T@B's a keeper!

AnOldUR

Getting ready for a trip to the Keys at the beginning of March. There will surely to be some chilly nights, so went ahead with a second flush with fresh Rhomar. After the exchange I let it run for a few hours at the 2K electric setting (heat set to 85 degrees / glycol held at 175 degrees) before pulling a sample from the expansion tank. Feeling a lot better with the new results. Top picture is the one from earlier with fresh Rhomar on the left and the dealer flush/exchange on the right. The second picture is the new sample taken today. It might not make any difference in the long run, but I'll feel better knowing that there's no more cross contamination.

Sharon_is_SAM

Now it looks like 100% Rhomar instead of a diluted mix.

AnOldUR

This thread went all over the place, but I hope it gets owners who do the switch (DIY or dealer) to take a sample to compare results.

@Sharon_is_SAM do you think it would be a good idea for me to start a new dedicated thread for members to post "after" pictures of their switch from Century to Rhomar?

Sharon_is_SAM

Sure.

BrianZ

When comparing glycol samples, color is a more subjective indicator & may be difficult for those with blue-green colorblindness (more common in men I believe).  If possible, using a refractometer to measure the specific gravity (level of dissolved solids, like you should do for an unsealed battery) and a pH meter for level of acidity/alkalinity would give you more objective comparisons of "sameness" of the two solutions.