Service Delays / Glycol Exchange Help

AnOldUR

Didn't want to take the chance of doing our glycol flush and replacement with the new stuff wrong, so just over a month ago we scheduled it to be done at the dealer. They have a great reputation, so we also scheduled a Maxx Air fan replacement. Could have done that myself, but wanted to patronize this dealer. They said it would be a total of maybe four hours labor. We were debating to wait while the work was done (maybe do some shopping in the area) or leave it there, but decided to leave it overnight. Got out early and towed the hour there this morning (Monday) to find that they had not ordered the fan and that it wouldn't be there until Thursday and that the work would not be done until sometime next week. The thought of our baby sitting in a lot on a busy road for over a week doesn't thrill us. Fighting the demons in my head telling me to go back and pick it up. It would probably be a "cut off your nose ..." kind of thing. Trying real hard to chill, but I just don't get it.

(only venting, thanks for listening)

webers3

So typical. The day of reckoning for the RV industry is coming.

Sharon_is_SAM

Sorry @AnOldUR.  I am not sure that dealers ever had their act together.  I think it pays to make a phone call before setting out.  At least you could have delayed the trip!  Confirm, confirm, confirm!  I have to say that nuCamp shop service has always been timely.

AnOldUR

Sharon_is_SAM said:

... Confirm, confirm, confirm! ...

This is what is keeping me from doing anything. I should have made a call before heading out. It wouldn't have changed the situation, but I wouldn't have been caught off guard.

Along those lines, what is going through my head is the saying, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." If something happens while sitting in their lot, I'll have no one to blame but myself. (I've put more time, effort and love into this trailer than any insurance claim could make up for.)

CharlieRN

@AnOldUR - if the dealer you chose is who I think it is, your camper will likely be stored in their overflow lot, remote from the dealership proper. You can PM me for more detail if you'd like

VictoriaP

Sharon_is_SAM said:

Sorry @AnOldUR.  I am not sure that dealers ever had their act together.  I think it pays to make a phone call before setting out.  At least you could have delayed the trip!  Confirm, confirm, confirm!  I have to say that nuCamp shop service has always been timely.

As someone who has had multiple RVs since the early 90s, they never did completely have their act together, but it’s way worse now than it was back then, and way way worse since 2020. (As is trying to reserve a campsite in my region, sigh.)

As far as the phone call? Around here, that wouldn’t make a difference. You get a drop off appointment six weeks out and you drop it off whether or not they’ll be starting on your rig that day. (Hint: they won’t, and don’t expect to see your rig back for at least two weeks.) Miss your drop off, get back in line and wait, possibly another six weeks, until they have room for you. The demand for service is way higher than they can possibly fulfill, they really don’t *need* your business.

If you can DIY something, do so. If not, you’re at the mercy of the dealership, and they generally don’t know the meaning of the word. It shouldn’t be this way, but that’s the way it is, and it appears to be industry-wide rather than brand specific.

AnOldUR

CharlieRN said:

... if the dealer you chose is who I think it is ...

I'm fairly certain it is. Really nice people, that's why I didn't name names. Interesting about the overflow lot. I shut off the solar charging while doing some electric work and forgot to put it back on. I may drive back out there tomorrow to turn it back on so that my batteries stay topped off. Hoping it's still not parked out front where I left it.

johnfconway

It may be worth checking reviews and then speaking with an RV repair shop in high regard. We're lucky to have one in Deming, NM... about an hour away. You know up front when you'll be picking it back up and that it will be locked either in the shop or inside the secured fence area. These guys rescued a T@B 400 owner who broke down on I-10 and needed the Dexter axle replaced. Ordered, received and installed in a matter of days (pre-pandemic).

CharlieRN

AnOldUR said:

. . . I shut off the solar charging while doing some electric work and forgot to put it back on. I may drive back out there tomorrow to turn it back on so that my batteries stay topped off. Hoping it's still not parked out front where I left it.

I'm sure that if you phoned the dealer and asked, they'd be willing to turn whatever switch is needed to the on position for you, saving you the drive. They have a master set of keys for access to the interior. They generally don't leave customers trailers waiting for work out in the front, but if you call, you can also query them about where they've stored your camper.

AnOldUR

@CharlieRN we changed our lock set, but did leave them with a key. My initial thought was that they didn't have our code to the Victron app where the solar is turned off, but you're right, there's no reason that I shouldn't give it to them.

Bottom line is that I should have confirmed the timeline of this service. The local mechanic who services our vehicles normally has scheduled work done the day we drop off. Assuming that was the case here was my mistake. I trust that these guys will do excellent work.

AnOldUR

Picked up our T@B yesterday. Sure it would have been nice if the scheduling was better, but the work done by the dealer was flawless and communication with them (both on site and email) was friendly and responsive. Overall a five star experience.

Sharon_is_SAM

Please consider recording a Testimonial so other owners know about your experience.

AnOldUR

Forgot about the Testimonial category, but there's one more detail I'd like to clear up first. After the exchange, there was more glycol in the expansion tank than there should have been. My thought was that the dealer probably left room for any air in the system so I used a turkey baster to remove some. While at the dealer I picked up an extra gallon so that I could top off if it was necessary. Comparing that glycol to what I took from the expansion tank is what has me concerned.

Even this colorblind guy can tell they're not the same. On the left is the fresh glycol. On the right is what came from the tank. I'd rather not believe that all the old glycol was not fully flushed before replacing with the new Rhomar glycol. What do you think?

I'll be sending this photo to the dealer for an explanation, but wanted to get a second opinion here.

(edit to add better picture)

bergger

They most likely did not flush out all the Century one and there is some mixing of the two.  I did my own flush and Rhomar fill and can tell you it took me a little while to get out the Century from the bleeder tubes some of which were 12-14" long.  I did an actual drain and then flushed a bunch of distilled water, 15 gallons, through my system.  Did they actually flush the system out with water or just push the old out with the new glycol?  Without asking specifics first ask the dealer to just explain the method they used.  If they said they flushed with water first then ask how much water and what kind of test did they do to ensure the Century was all removed.  It does not look like it was all removed.  If they say they did it properly and it is what it is I'd reach out to NuCamp and show them the photo.

 I constantly checked the color of the fluid in the various bleeder tubes during my flush to see when it turned clear, meaning the Century was gone.  As I introduced the Rhomar I did the same and kept adding Rhomar until it appeared the same color as a fresh batch of Rhomar.  This made me feel good that I not only got out the Century but also pushed out the water.  Here is a picture of what mine looked like in comparison to each other.  The sample on the right, with the sticker on it, is direct from the bottle and the one on the left is a sample from my bleeder tubes and the expansion tank.  

techietab

@bergger , when you did your flush and Rhomar fill - did you use the 'bottom fill' method? If so - would you mind sharing any tips/tricks?

bergger

Here is a link to a discussion on the matter.  I did mine at the beginning of June this year.  My little write up is on the last page of this thread.  It really was not that difficult and it will be easier next time as I do not have to flush out the Century first.  I'll just introduce about 3.5-4 gallons of new Rhomar into the system and call it good.  It just cost a little money and some time to complete. Even though I did not intend to do a gravity drain I ended up doing one anyway do to my mistake as mentioned in the write up.  I'll probably still drain next time then do the fill using the pump and shop vac like I did this time.  It is really quite easy to bleed air out of the lines so I don't care if it gets introduced into the system.  And since I won't be able to tell the color change, since there is no century or water in the system, I want to make sure I get as much of the old Rhomar drained out before pushing the rest out with the new.  Especially to let it drain out of the bleeder valves.   But that is two years down the road now! After seeing the color of the Rhomar in the beginning of this thread I'm really glad I studied up and just did it myself.  

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/13409/switching-to-new-rhomar-glycol#latest

AnOldUR

@bergger thank you for adding to the discussion. Unfortunately you may have confirmed my worse fear. I hope that I hear back from the dealer tomorrow. Also contacted nuCamp to get their opinion. I don't know what to expect or what my options will be.

A combination of being lazy, fear of not doing a good job and wanting to support my local dealer had me thinking having them do this job was a good idea. Kicking myself in the butt for not doing this myself 

We were suppose to head to the Finger Lakes later this week in hopes of not missing the fall colors.

AnOldUR

Just heard back from nuCamp:

"I would do some additional flushing - new rhomar shouldn't look like it does on the right."

nuCamp also asked if it was flushed with distilled water. I'm assuming that the dealer knew that this was part of the process, but it will be interesting to hear what they have to say.

qhumberd

The single biggest reason that drives me to do all the minor maintenance I can is this kind of experience. When we should be able to trust that a tech and dealer can do the job right. It is pretty apparent that here that did not happen and if @AnOldUR had not checked the reservoir, you might have never noticed. Meanwhile Alde/Truma has specific warnings about mixing the fluids, and a very specific procedure laid out for the flush and refill. I am wondering if in a year or so we start seeing a group of units with problems from improper flush and refill and the uncontrolled experiment that has begun. I hope it is not as bad as some think it may be.

I am so sorry about what @AnOldUR is having to go through. This has convinced me that what I did on my last change with regular Century was more of a flush than some dealers are doing for the change out to Rhomar.  I noted then it did take 15 gals of tap water to remove all traces of Century color in the flushed fluid, followed by 5 gals of distilled water, and then refilled with fresh Century. That much flushing did take time, and perhaps that is the rub for the dealers who don't see the need. And my Alde has never had problem one. So next year I will do it myself it seems with Rhomar. Thanks as always to the expertise on the forum.

AnOldUR

Looks like I'll be following @qhumberd lead and doing a flush myself, but in reality I'm at a loss.

nuCamp now wants me to tell them who my dealer is so that they can contact them. I have been being vague on that here and in my other correspondence because I really like this dealership and don't want to disrespect them. They have an great reputation with both nuCamp and owners. If nuCamp were to contact the dealer and they approve of whatever process that the dealer used, I'd still be left with some doubt.

Seem like the best thing may be to bite the bullet and do a flush and refill myself. If all this is me overreacting, it would put this unwanted drama behind and give me peace of mind.

On a different note, I got a price on Rhomar from a local Airstream dealer. Sticker shock! The nuCamp dealer charged me $30 for the extra gallon of Rhomar. The Airstream dealer wants $110 for a gallon or $319 for a five gallon bucket. Are there different types of the Rhomar or is there some other reason (other than dealer markup) for the difference?

VictoriaP

@AnOldUR By not telling nuCamp who the dealer is, you’re encouraging the dealer to continue their poor practice, potentially damaging Alde units for other customers. I can understand why you haven’t told us, but telling nuCamp is important. 

AnOldUR

@VictoriaP you are 100% correct. In hindsight, I have not gone about this properly, but now that I'm at this point I need to follow through. Thanks for the insight.

VictoriaP

@AnOldUR Has the dealer gotten back in touch with you yet?

And I get it, believe me. A combination of conflict aversion and perfectionist tendencies mean I run headfirst into the “fine, I’ll just fix it myself” wall all the time when someone else gets it wrong. But this is a $3k heating unit (probably more nowadays), and if the dealer doesn’t do this switch correctly, they could find themselves on the hook for a lot of problems with their customers. Giving them the chance to make it right, and involving nuCamp in the process as needed, is the morally correct thing to do. Even though, yes, it’s uncomfortable for you.

If they’re as good as you & others have said, they’ll make it right.

Sharon_is_SAM

@AnOldUR - nuCamp is really trying to teach their dealers and we should be supportive of this effort.  Dealers, like everyone else, has room for improvement - it's not a black mark, rather an opportunity for them to excel as a great dealer.  Feel better:)

AnOldUR

@VictoriaP I did hear from the dealer. They came back with, "We only use one type of glycol and there isn't any issue with it. As things heat, the glycol color will change. Thanks. I'll show (service guy) too but this is what my explanation is", but I have not heard anything new from service.

In reaction to what you and @Sharon_is_SAM wrote, I first contacted the dealer to give them a heads-up that nuCamp may contact them and then gave nuCamp the contact information. I'm really hoping that nuCamp says that the dealer did everything correct. I will then take responsibility for overreacting and move on.

Sharon_is_SAM

I don't think you overreacted at all.  You did your due diligence and any of us would have been suspect regarding the color change.  Did the dealer say that they flushed with lots of distilled water?  That seems to be the real issue here.

AnOldUR

No @Sharon_is_SAM, I haven't heard back from the dealer. I'm not sure what to expect now that nuCamp will be contacting them. Worst case scenario, if nuCamp says there was a process problem, it could open up a can of worms for the dealer. That's why I'm hoping that this isn't the case.

Can't help but think that I crossed the line between due diligence and obsessive behavior.

Horigan

@AnOldUR
I would have the same concerns given that Rhomar fluid is blue/green with no hint of yellow, whereas your sample has yellow in it.

qhumberd

It is getting harder it seems for businesses in general to say something like “Sorry, that was our mistake, let us make it right for you". Better to try explaining that heating the glycol causes a color change, or maybe the phase of the moon does it or whatever.

I understood when you took the trailer in, the Alde had the Century fluid. They were to flush the system per recommendations and refill with Rhomar. Others have done that via dealers and at NuCamp and on their own and no subsequent changes in color are reported. So apparently facts and truth hold little sway with someone at this dealership. I would let NuCamp know and tell this dealer you would like 5 gals of Rhomar for your trouble and then finish the job as Nucamp has recommended. If they can't provide even that consideration I would never use or recommend them again.

Denny16

It does not take 5 gallons of Rhomar to fill a TaB 320, or even a TaB400.  It low takes a special pump to flush out the system, which the dealers are supposed to have.  Changing out the Alde system from Century to Rhomar is not a simple task, but a rather involved procedure.  It could be that a bit of the flush water was still in the system, causing the color change.  We do not know, and speculation does not solve the issue.  
 Cheers 

AnOldUR

Nothing but crickets from the dealer and nuCamp since Wednesday. I just sent a followup to nuCamp, but now it will be Monday before there's any chance of hearing from anyone.

We've missed our planned leaf peeping trip this weekend, but don't want to let next weekends glamping trip to see our grandsons last soccer game go by. Looks like I'll be tackling this job next week. Read and watched videos about the process and I think I can pull it off. I have a pump, but I'm curious why the Alde pump can't be used? I'm sure we don't want to have the Alde heating with no glycol in the system, but it doesn't look too hard to power just the Alde pump after unplugging it under the cover. Has anyone done this or is there a reason to not do it?