Changing out the Alde fluid.

fstop32

@Freespirit & @ScottG, I have yet to post a full "changing Alde fluid" thread as some of what I would like to show is not quite completed.  However, I have rebuilt my entire system, filled and tested it and since @ScottG mentioned the second low point drain I thought I would chime in.
I added an identical low point drain on the passenger side in just about the mirror location of the existing drain.  I was very careful to plumb it where the hoses coming into and out of that bench compartment would run to the new drain.
I used the "ScottG Manual Pump" and it just happened that the output hose from the hand pump fit exactly into the drain tube coming through the floor.  I used the pinch clamp which normally holds the plug to secure the pump hose and keep it from popping out mid-fill.
Hand pumping the fluid in was surprisingly easy and I could see the reservoir tank through the side window to see when the fluid had reached that height.  I just slowed my pump speed down enough to allow the rest of the system to gravity feed from the reservoir...easy peazy, no leaks no spills.  Once I saw the reservoir fluid climbing I turned the Alde pump on to circulate and push any air back to the reservoir.  When I was done I clamped the drain hose, removed the pump line and secured the plug.  Btw, I have since sealed around that new drain hose 8^).

BrianZ

Congrats on getting your system all back together, @fstop32!  It's nice to see yet another of the many ways to do flushing & refilling the glycol.  I look forward to seeing more, especially about how you arranged both tubes in that distal loop to facilitate draining.  I assume one is elevated.
PS:  When pumping from outside like this, how many times would one normally need to go in & check the fluid level?  It looks like, with the current view of the tank, you may have been able to monitor it through the window.

Freespirit

In the previous pages, there were several discussions/opinions related to the use of different types of metal in the Alde system. Here is perhaps another from the author of the video:

Yes it is true that different metals can cause galvanic corrision effects. But ONLY under certain specific conditions.... Those conditions do not exist in my installation of the copper "T" drains. For galvanic corrosion to occour the dissimilar metals must be in "direct electrical contact" with one another. The copper T assemblies are NOT in electrical contact with any other metals in the system. They are insulated by sections of rubber hose. As long as the copper remains insulated from other types of metals in the system, galvanic corrosion cannot occour, as no return "circuit" is formed for the electrons to flow. Note 1: Alde itself uses MANY different types of metals in their systems. Aluminum radiators, the existing drain T is Steel, the automatic air bleed valve is brass, the drain valve coupler is steel. This also is fine as long as their is not direct electrical connection of these parts. Note 2: To help whatever situation of corosion that might be going on I have installed a sacrificial Anode rod in my system. If there ever would be a corrosion problem in my system, the only thing that would corride will be that rod. I have a video up of its installation. You will see in that video I did provide a direct electrical connection back to the heater itself so to enable galvanic corrosion (if any). Here is a good article explaing the process, and how it only occours when the dissimilar metals are both emersed, and electrically coupled.

https://www.twi-global.com/technical-knowledge/faqs/faq-what-is-galvanic-corrosion-and-how-can-it-be-avoided

cheers

fstop32

Hey @BrianZ, yes I elevated the input line running fluid to the upper convector in the bench with a slight downhill slope (assuming a level camper) from the upper convector in the rear.  The line coming off the lower bench convector slopes toward the floor so shortly after making the 90 degree turn (using 90 deg formed elbows) into the rear bench compartment it ends up on the floor at the added drain on that side.  Coming off the drain it slopes back up to the lower rear convector.  The new drain goes through the floor right below the screwdriver and that one hose clamp.  This was still not quite finished.  I added 2 or 3 more hose clamps and there is a plywood panel with cutouts that mounts over the hoses to protect them from whatever is stored under that bench.

This is what the passenger bench looks like.

And then the back where they join up with the rear convectors.

SusanD

I've decided to have my dealer change the glycol for me at the start of next year.  Once it's been changed to the new fluid, other than topping it off as necessary, it seems to me that the simplest method is to drain it every couple of years by using that red glycol drain and let it gravity do it's thing.  Am I correct?  Even if absolutely every drop is not removed, anything that's left should be diluted by what is added.  I feel like I'm missing something but I'm not sure.

BrianZ

@SusanD, I don't know about the newer units, but most 320's will only gravity drain half of the glycol at most.  @fstop32 has addressed the other half by adding a second low point drain to the other low point in the plumbing.   Some are comfortable draining only half by doing it annually to get more dilution effect.  Read all the way back - there's been a lot of discussion.

SusanD

@BrianZ, I did read everything but never having a camper before and not being particularly mechanical, I couldn't follow all of the discussion.  Problem solved however, I'll drain it annually.  Thanks!  Susan 

ScottG

@SusanD, one of the reasons I adopted the approach described here is that it doesn't require draining of the entire system, or removing anything other than the drain plug and the cap to expansion tank. Old glycol is forced out ahead of the new glycol being forced in.

Since your dealer will already have changed you to the new Rhomar fluid, you won't need to worry about flushing--or about exchanging every last drop--you'll just need to get most of the fluid exchanged.

Every method involves some compromise. In this case you will need to make some simple adapters to fit the expansion tank. While this may be a little more involved than just draining and refilling half the fluid every year, you won't have to do it every year, and you will be doing a complete job each time. 

BrianZ

Thanks, @Freespirit, for sharing that quote from the creator of the video.  Here is his other video describing his idea for installation of a sacrificial anode inside his expansion tank..
https://youtu.be/gjRbKk1AAlI
I think it's a brilliant idea to have a sacrificial anode (which also reminds me that we are about due for pulling the anode rod from our water heater to check if it has yet corroded down to the center wire & needs replacement).  The only reservation that I might have is whether any sediment that falls off the corroding rod would safely make its way out of the tank & down into the drain hose, without getting sucked by the pump back into the Alde.  Water heaters normally have a bottom drain for flushing any sediment out, but they don't push out hot water from the bottom, but a bit higher up off the bottom.  With such an anode installed, it might be worth periodically opening the drain to let out a couple ounces, before ever increasing the Alde pump speed.
PS: Here's the more important part 2 about actual construction & installation of the sacrificial anode..
https://youtu.be/rqtQtioR5EU
Wish he had given source of parts & shown the ground wire connection to the Alde.
I'm surprised the galvanic current was over 200 milliamps & one volt potential.  I only wish I had known about all of these things 4 years ago.

SusanD

@ScottG I really want to thank you for putting together this manual.  This is exactly what I need.  When I read some of the technical discussions, I have a hard time following them.  I'm smart and capable but I have no idea what flanges and couplers are (and I was definitely ignorant of what was involved when I decided to buy a camper!).  But your info, with a shopping list, instructions and pictures is awesome.  I can do this!

ScottG

You are welcome, @SusanD. In large part, the whole point of this exhaustive discussion (at least for me) was to gather ideas and put together a protocol that would be accessible to as many owners as possible. There are lots of other approaches and all will get the job done.

It sounds like you won't need to be doing this yourself for a while, but whatever method you choose please let us know how it turns out.

lkc001

@ScottG  @Dalehelman Can you please clarify for me what is meant by "turning on or turning up the Alde pump/circulator?  I think I read you are not supposed to turn "on" the Alde for heat or to heat water while doing this fluid replacement, so how do you just turn the pump on?   I am just going to use the same Century Fluid.

I know that on the pump there is a little dial that goes from 1 to 5 and is normally set @ 2 on mine.  I am going to be using the method that Dale used to first drain from underneath the trailer then use a shop vac to suck as  much out through the expansion tank as possible.  So then I will add more fluid and "turn on/up the pump" and as the fluid level goes down through the system, add more fluid and run the pump till it gets to between the Min & Max line on the expansion tank. 

I am going to attempt to do this myself at the end of the season since I cannot find anyone in the Denver area to do this job at a reasonable price.

Thank you

ScottG

@lkc001, this is described in detail in the document I linked to above in my response to SusanD. Start at step 8 on page 6. Directions are provided for both analog and digital control panels.

lkc001

@ScottG Thank you!--I think I understand it now.  Will the pump run continuously even it is warm outside?  I have a digital panel.

ScottG

My understanding is the "continuous" setting on the digital panel allows the pump to run regardless of ambient temperature. 

BrianZ

Hey, @Freespirit, I have a question for you..
Near the top of this page, you posted on Aug 19 a long quote you said was from the creator of the T@B maintenance videos, where he talked about galvanic corrosion and how he used a sacrificial anode in his glycol tank.  Can you tell me what was the source of your quote - where did you read what he said?  I would like to ask him where on the Alde he connected the wire from the electrode, as he did not show that in his video; however, I don't know how to contact him, as I see no further information listed under his YouTube channel.  Perhaps he has an online presence elsewhere?  I have questions on another of his videos as well.
Thanks in advance for any info.

fstop32

I think several of us would be interested in pursuing that idea...

Freespirit

@BrianZ, I just copied his response to a question that was asked of him below his video where he added the two Alde drains. It was his response to a question about introducing copper into the Alde system as it related to potential corrosion. I do not know how to contact him directly other than subscribe to his channel. From what I can tell he answers all questions he receives. 

I have attached a link to his second video discussing the anode rod. If you have already viewed it I apologize for redundant information. I did not attach the first video but it is informative and gives some background information. 

https://youtu.be/rqtQtioR5EU

cheers

Freespirit

@BrianZ, someone else asked him the question I think you were asking about connecting the anode wire to the Alde. Here is his response:

The best ground I could find in the ALDE was where the propane line connects to the case. There are two screws that hold on the hose fitting onto the case. I lifted one of them and put a crimp eye-ring on it.

cheers

Freespirit

Additional information that may be helpful, I apologize if this is all repetitive information:

type of wire he used:

Just about any gauge wire will work, because it is only carrying a tiny tiny current. I just soldered a section of 18 gauge stranded core to the cap. Clean the steel REALLY well and don't use too much heat. You really don't want to ignite the magnesium

Anode rod he used:

https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=comments&redir_token=QUFFLUhqbGd1STl6YV8xLVpSbTdmeUs0QXhkT19SY3BjQXxBQ3Jtc0trblVsOFdYcGVlWDdUR2JmMW1mcmFEREUtQVlsVnJCQUFQQ0VTQXZHZ25XMkw4WWY0WWl2Q0hpd21rUGxaN3BvTDNoclI0b1lxQjV5SlJiTlJrNFpGLXRvZTV3MUpIdHU4UnJkSEFmX1g0eTc1U0dxWQ&q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Faclk%3Fsa%3DL%26ai%3DDChcSEwiI45OSy5zwAhW0DK0GHdNKDdsYABAEGgJwdg%26ae%3D2%26sig%3DAOD64_3keifK7TEuHzk5zDqw250ETv6DLQ%26ctype%3D5%26q%3D%26ved%3D2ahUKEwia-IOSy5zwAhWBFzQIHRefBqEQ9aACegQIARBP%26adurl%3D&stzid=UgxS-ds3cv2UFz9rZrN4AaABAg.9MbQxh3suCe9MbTZwdxfr8

Cheers 

pthomas745

The guy with the videos is an active FB user on a couple of the Tab trailer groups.  He has a 2015 trailer.

BrianZ

Thanks, @Freespirit & @pthomas745, I finally found the youtube comments with the answers.  It was interesting that in both his Alde tank anode video and another one for adding sparkers to the stove, he neglected to mention attaching the ground wire.  I completed his stove mod yesterday & recognized that a ground wire was needed & where to add my own.  Now, today I found in his youtube comments where he noted a ground wire was needed between the sparker nut & stove base, but the video still doesn't mention it.  Great ideas, but videos are lacking a bit.  I will write up my version of his stove mod here with those details.  I may do the Alde Tank Anode mod too. 
Thanks again.

gophergrad

N00b question.  Where do I get the old yellow fluid?

RMo

Amazon seems to be the go-to place.  Amazon Century Fluid

gophergrad

Thanks.  My dealer has zero idea what I am talking about, and given my current physical limitations I can't drain and replace it with Rhomar.  I'm stuck just adding some fluid for now.

ChanW

@BrianZ, I can't seem to find that video that you mentioned about the 'stove sparker'. Do you happen to have a link? (or, better yet, +1 to see your write-up!) 

Thanks!

BrianZ said:

..........
today I found in his youtube comments where he noted a ground wire was needed between the sparker nut & stove base, but the video still doesn't mention it.  Great ideas, but videos are lacking a bit.  I will write up my version of his stove mod here with those details.  I may do the Alde Tank Anode mod too. 
Thanks again.

BrianZ

@ChanW, absolutely!..
https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/14202/pushbutton-stove-igniter-installation
And his video link is embedded at the beginning of my writeup.
PS:
Here's a link to all his videos..
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCRdKCLh2lKFl_dNBNaLTnWw/videos

lkc001

Help please.  Was going to start the draining & vacuuming out Alde fluid --- fail. Can't get clamp on drain tube open/ off & can't pull drain plug out.  Using two vice grips I was able to squeeze the clamp partially open but still can't pull drain plug out.  Do you need to twist plug & pull at the same time?  Do I need a special tool for the clamp?  What is the clamp called?  

Pintoplumber

With ours, I squeeze the clamp to open and slide the clamp up an inch or two. Then grab the plug with a pliers and wiggle and pull the plug out.

lkc001

@Pintoplumber. Thanks!  Finally got it-- good thing I had the bucket right under it because it really spews out fast!  Had a little splatter but not much. It was much harder to get the plug shoved back in the tube!  But I finally got it.  My hand strength isn't what it used to be & being underneath didn't help.  

I got about one gallon drained out from pulling  the drain plug-- does that sound about right?