Changing out the Alde fluid.

fstop32

Sounds like a good job @RonM, I too used @BrianZ's genius heat shrink tubing idea and I think time will show it to be a great long term solution for those connections.

Sneakle

The recap of my thread about changing out the glycol tank may inform some of the issues here.
https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/14548/removing-the-glycol-overflow-reservoir-need-help#latest
 

RCB

When changing from Century to Rhomar fluid, has anyone used the Rhomar Flush solution ?  In the thread about bulging hoses and deposits there is now solid evidence that accumulation of Century crystals likely exist in all systems using Century fluid. Will the Rhomar flush dissolve/remove such contamination ? 

ScottG

Darn good question, @RCB. I've heard of the flush but no here has reported using it. 

Those crystals were pretty tenacious. I'd be surprised if the flush alone would be enough to dislodge them. I'm also curious if residual Century crystals would react unfavorably with the Rohmer glycol.   

fstop32

Yes, darn good question @RCB.  I'd be really concerned that whatever might be going on under those hose connections won't get cleaned out with any amount of flushing.  I suspect any corrosion already started would just keep going.  Makes me feel a bunch better about having/deciding to change out everything but the boiler.  Yep @ScottG, they did make a rather large point of flushing ALL the Century out of the system...got to be a reason for that.

RCB

I’ve asked Rhomar if their flush fluid will dissolve the Century deposits. So to my next question… has anyone looked at auto radiator flush fluid ? 

BrianZ

@fstop32, I'd guess that the emphasis on flushing out all of the old fluid when replacing with Rhomar, is because their buffers have different target pH values, like 8 versus 9.  Buffers work to maintain the pH at a certain point, so for example, if small amounts of acid are added to a solution buffered to a basic pH level, it will absorb it & maintain the target pH level.  But this may only work to a limited degree, before the pH begins to change.  If there were too much old fluid left, it could limit the effectiveness/protection provided by the new buffers with a different (lower) target pH level.  I had also read that aluminum is more susceptible to corrosion above pH 8.5, so a relatively small change in pH might make a difference in the case of these two differently  buffered fluids. That's my guess.

[Deleted User]

This is the first I'm hearing about the crystals forming in the Century fluid. I just sold mine, but I would have mentioned it to the new owner.  How quickly are they forming? I did a partial gravity change in April this year. I was able to change out almost two gallons. 

fstop32

Good point @BrianZ, I can see where they would't want the Rhomar to start off at less than 100% effective.  I just can't see any current corrosion between hose and convector being totally neutralized by the flush and/or the Rhomar.  I'd be worried it would keep eating at it.  
That's just a WAG though, from the guy who as a middle school idiot mixed Clorox & ammonia to clean his Converse tennis shoes...

BrianZ

Oh yeah, @fstop32, I agree with you about the crevice corrosion - that could be a problem either way & should be prevented using any of the methods described - extra clamps, coatings, coverings, anodizing, etc.  Nucamp really should require anodized convector pipes I think.

RCB

The thread about Corrosion of Alde Convectors shows deposits and corrosion at the flexible hose and aluminum convector joint.. if theses deposits are not neutralized, then the corrosion will likely continue. At what rate is anybodies guess. I was (still am) hoping the Rhomar flushing solution will remove some or all of such deposits. If not what is the long term outcome for those with Alde systems that have or had the Century 1 fluid ? So far there has been no information from Alde or NewCamp that would give one confidence their system will have a normal lifespan. If the damage shown in the Corrosion thread is wide spread, then this is headed to unfortunate and expensive outcomes for all such Alde systems.

ScottG

@TabbyShack, to clarify, crystals are not forming in the Century glycol, What appears to be happening is that some glycol is seeping between the rubber hoses and the outside of the stubs where the hoses attach to the convectors. With time/heat/use/whatever this seepage is crystallizing on the affected surfaces, and this in turn is corroding the aluminum convector stubs from the outside in. The telltale sign that this is happening is the appearance of bulges near the clamps that secure the runner hoses to the convectors.

The problem was well documented in this discussion started in March of 2020.

ScottG

On a related note, the discussion on Changing out the Ade fluid and Corrosion of Alde Convectors are digressing into each other's territory. This is understandable as many owners discover the corrosion when they go to change their glycol.

Since these important discussions have both become quite lengthy, let's try to keep comments in the relevant thread so that information doesn't become fractured. I try to move things around from time to keep things organized, but sometimes it's hard to keep up!

DanWeitzel

In reading thru these post I see reference to using a shop vac inserted into the expansion tank to force the fluid out of the system.  Can someone post the procedure? Thanks.

ScottG

@DanWeitzel, I'm not aware of any separate documentation of this procedure. Several owners have used it successfully. I think @Dalehelman wrote the most detailed description (with photos) of what he did--you should be able to find it further back in this discussion.

pthomas745

Mr. Helman's shop vac story was in the "waterless" coolant thread.  Not sure if it is linked anywhere inside this thread. 

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/comment/167051/#Comment_167051

ScottG

Thanks, @pthomas745. After I said that I had a nagging feeling it might have been in a different but related discussion.

DanWeitzel

pthomas745 said:

Mr. Helman's shop vac story was in the "waterless" coolant thread.  Not sure if it is linked anywhere inside this thread. 

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/comment/167051/#Comment_167051

OK, thanks for the link.  After reading thru the posts it looks like I would just use my shop vac to suck out the old transfer fluid & than replace as usual.  I have a 5 gal, 2.0 HP vac, is suction power an issue.  Has anyone had any problems using this method?

Horigan

I had good results using a shop vac smaller than yours on a 400, which has much easier access to the reservoir and hoses.  It had plenty of power to pull the fluid out.  I just duct taped the reservoir hose to the shop vac hose.

stepheng

Looks like Century has changed their packaging.  No longer says TF-1.  Just want to confirm this is still the right fluid for replacement.

If so looks like camping world has great price.  Going to check it out today.

Denny16

Looks like Century TF-1, the TF stands for transfer fluid.  New packaging.  

That said, the general consensus, and recommendations from nüCamp, when it’s time to replace the transfer fluid your Alde system, have the Alde system flushed, and use the new Rhomar Transfer Fluid, which most TaB dealers are now equipped to do. 

Cheers 

[Deleted User]

Nucamp was not recommending changing to the Rhomar if your unit originally came with Century. Did that recently change? My understanding was owners were opting to make the switch out of concern, but Nucamp was recommending to stay with the original type of glycol. If it were me,  I would switch to the Rhomar even if NuCamp is not recommending it. 

Denny16

When Rhomar get first came out and nüCamp made the switch last year, they said to keep using Century if thst is what you had before.  But, the last word I had, was nüCamp and/or Alde USA changed their original advice, and were now recommending switching to Rhomar when your transfer fluid change was due, to get the best protection for the Alde system.  I read this in be of the posts about switching to Rhomar fluid.
 Cheers 

jimcenname

I believe Century fluid may cause corrosion of Alde aluminum components. Other forum members have reports such. When I exchanged emails with Creed (tech at nuCamp) he said changing to Rhomar will reduce the chance of corrosion (paraphrased). His email was vague though. If I read between the lines, I believe nuCamp and Alde made a mistake installing Century and now Rhomar is the fluid recommended as being compatible with aluminum. No one at nuCamp was that explicit but Creed nudged me along the path to replace Century with Rhomar in my Alde, which I did. 

pthomas745

There has been no proof at all the Century fluid is the cause of any of the corrosion by itself.  Many owners, who flush the system themselves, will continue to use the Century fluid.

Owners who have gone to a dealer and "wanted" to use the Century fluid in their pre 2020 trailers have simply been told they had no choice but to switch to the Rhomar.  If Alde/Truma believes the Century fluid is the "cause" of corrosion, you would think they would just come out and admit it.

Denny16

That might open up a can of legal can of worms, and the lawyers may have advised against making that link?  However, I plan to switch to Rhomar fluid on my next glycol change.  

So far there are not any signs of corrosion issues in my Alde system, but I will have that checked when I take the TaB in for servicing.  I also plan to see if the second Alde service connection point can be installed, as nüCamp has done on the new TaBs.
 Cheers 

jimcenname

I talked with a Truma rep (Truma owns Alde) today at the RV show in Quartzsite AZ. The rep seemed informed about the Alde system in nuCamp trailers. I asked about corrosion in the Alde system. The rep, asking not be be quoted, speculated something changed with the Century Fluid, it used to work just fine in the Adle system and then recently the corrosion issue developed. I told the rep I had trouble locating Rhomar RG-RTU-50 for my recent fluid change. The rep said Truma sells it to the public and told me Rhomar private-labels the fluid for them, so it is the same stuff nuCamp now installs. I can't find it on Truma or Alde's website. As I described my concern the rep said switching to the Alde (Rhomar) fluid is the most helpful preventative measure against corrosion. The rep also suggested I check the grounding of both the Alde unit and the T@B's power converter to address potential electrolytic corrosion. 

pthomas745

@jimcenname Good info, thanks.  How is everything in Quartzsite this year?  Busy yet?

N7SHG_Ham

I am hearing same thing, change to new fluid and probably good to run a ground wire from Alde to the negative bus, essentially what Truma is advising is what the Airstream tech pub said to do about a year ago. I have an April appointment for mine for the fluid flush and change and will see if a ground wire gets run. I think if you are due a change, then changing to the new fluid would be a wise decision.

jimcenname

I learned that Truma/Alde sells Rhomar RG-RTU-50 private labeled as Alde Antifreeze for $55/gal and $188/5-gal plus shipping by calling 855-558-7862 option 1. Alde part number 101-0003-01. I googled that with no results.