Changing out the Alde fluid.

[Deleted User]

I have the 400 model though. I think it holds 3 gallons.  

Tabulating

I got almost all of the fluid out of our 400 by opening the drain by removing the plug and then removing the two hoses from the reservoir and blowing into them.


I looked a bit for data on line. The human lung cannot produce anything near 50 psi.

I think a shop vac could be used to either suck or blow absolutely all if the fluid out. I have not tried this, but I did do some research and I don't believe shop vac would produce enough pressure differential to do any harm.

But as I said I got almost all the fluid out by simply blowing into the lines that connect to the reservoir after I removed the drain plug. I measured what I got out vs what I put back in and the amounts were basically the same.

ScottG

TabbyShack said:

I have the 400 model though. I think it holds 3 gallons.  

Right! Gettin' too hard to keep track of who has what. It did seem like the volume you drained was a little higher than what 320 owners had previously reported. Makes sense.

ScottG

Tabulating said:

I got almost all of the fluid out of our 400 by opening the drain by removing the plug and then removing the two hoses from the reservoir and blowing into them.
...

I'm not sure exactly how the 400 is configured compared to the 320, but this also makes sense. Blowing into the reservoir hoses is effectively the same as pumping fluid into them--in both cases it will force the remaining trapped fluid out the other end.

The issue with 320s is that access to the reservoir in order to remove the hoses is typically pretty tight if not impossible.

Tampakayaker

I saw a couple of you tube videos about replacing the fluid using a pump.

One showed taking the tank off the wall then removing the hoses.  I guess that would be doable with my 320 since the tank is in the headboard area.

They used a single pump to remove, then refill the system.  Seemed pretty easy.

They were replacing the fluid with a different color, so when the color changed when pumping in the new they knew they were done.

DougH

Did my 320 partial Alde glycol replacement today.

Had a vague memory of doing it in 2018, but checked Amazon records, and nope... only ordered the Century TF-1 fluid once, though I'd added a little bit from one container a couple times over the years. I used the gravity drain method described in this thread, raised and lowered the tongue all the way a couple times, then put back just over 1 container of the Amazon Century transfer fluid, and did the same raise and lower of the tongue a couple times while sometimes running the Alde pump.

The old fluid looked good, so I tested it on the refractometer and it said good to -20 to -25F.  Just like it's always been. Don't know why I bothered.

I winter camp, so have run the heater for I'm guessing 100-200 nights (but only with the Alde 3010 thermostat set between 50-60F, and with the help of a space heater).

Regardless, if the great shape of the old fluid helps any procrastinators justify not changing the fluid in the last few years... you're welcome. (though some on the forum have reported significantly more degradation of their fluid).

Sharon_is_SAM

@DougH - what about the corrosion protection?

DougH

@Sharon_is_SAM I have been using pH strips and checking it a couple times a year.  It's been above 7 the whole time.

[Deleted User]

The reason testing the old fluid doesn't give you the full picture is even though it tests with a good freeze point, it doesn't indicate it's remaining anti corrosive protection. Fresh ( less than 2 years old) glycol keeps corrosion from EATING the Alde components. I plan to do a gravity drain once a year.  This gets 1/2 the glycol out each time. True it's just diluting the old fluid by half,  but I'm my mind this is going to be plenty adequate to protect the Alde from corrosion.  This year I'm actually planning to do another drain this fall since I'm at the two year mark and this was my first change.  This should put me on track to maintain the glycol at a healthy level.  

Bottom line....change your fluid people!

Sharon_is_SAM

I just re-read something from Spencer - the former Alde guru.  He quoted the glycol pH should be 9.5 - 10.5.  Anyway, we plan to do the partial exchange this spring.  

N7SHG_Ham

Just wondering out loud if low pressure air would be a decent way to get most of the d fluid out, similar to blowing water lines? Fill with distilled water and flush then fill with new glycol.

DougH

@Sharon_is_SAM Zounds... that sounds pretty caustic. Reading random papers on heat transfer fluids, they say don't go over 8.5 if there's aluminum components with the boiler or exchange materials, but manufacturers often add corrosion inhibitors as well, so maybe that's how they can go that high?  I never got a reading that alkaline, but didn't start measuring until after the first two years of stewardship.

Sharon_is_SAM

I have seen lower pH quoted in this thread, so, I would say aim for 9😊

Horigan

N7SHG_Ham said:

Just wondering out loud if low pressure air would be a decent way to get most of the d fluid out, similar to blowing water lines? Fill with distilled water and flush then fill with new glycol.

Someone on another current thread said they disconnect both hoses from the reservoir and blow both out with their mouth.  I believe they said they got almost three gallons out.  I'm going this route in the next few weeks as my first fluid change.

bergger

As much as I love my Alde the fact that there is a 9 page thread on the glycol is a little disheartening.  Often I like things that use the K.I.S.S. principal and almost wish they used a standard forced air heater and hot water heater like I've had in the past.  Virtually maintenance free for years and years.  Yes they are louder appliances when used and I agree the radiant heat of the Alde is better but geeze the glycol seems like a pain to deal with for a heater.  Blowing things out every 2 years or worrying about glycol dumping out or corrosion happening.   It's certainly a more complicated and sensitive system compared to the latter.  Maybe I'm just concerned about something I don't need to be since we've only had our trailer for a year and it's a new system to me.  I just know the systems I had in past trailers were simple, always worked and required no serious maintenance.  

MadCityJack

bergger said:

As much as I love my Alde the fact that there is a 9 page thread on the glycol is a little disheartening.  Often I like things that use the K.I.S.S. principal and almost wish they used a standard forced air heater and hot water heater like I've had in the past.  Virtually maintenance free for years and years.  Yes they are louder appliances when used and I agree the radiant heat of the Alde is better but geeze the glycol seems like a pain to deal with for a heater.  Blowing things out every 2 years or worrying about glycol dumping out or corrosion happening.   It's certainly a more complicated and sensitive system compared to the latter.  Maybe I'm just concerned about something I don't need to be since we've only had our trailer for a year and it's a new system to me.  I just know the systems I had in past trailers were simple, always worked and required no serious maintenance.  

I agree with you.  That many dealers can sell a NuCamp and yet not appropriately refresh the Alde glycol is a major issue.   It’s a great opportunity for the right entrepreneurs.

pthomas745

I love my Alde...but this isn't a NuCamp caused issue.   This is an Alde design problem. 

Jax0913

@MadCityJack @bergger

Agree! I spoke with our local RV dealer and service provider. They said that flushing the system (even though Nucamp recommends every two years) seems excessive and unnecessary unless there is a issue with the Glycol such as a leak or something in the system and to check the level and top off if necessary but don't poke a sleeping bear. 

ScottG

@bergger, I've often expressed the same sentiment that the Alde was a rather complicated device for what is supposed to to a relative simple pastime. However, when it works, it works well, and I've come to appreciate its smooth and silent operations on those rare camping nights where a little supplemental heat is called for.  :-)

The original point of this now nine-page discussion was precisely to define why changing the glycol was such a bugaboo, and to come up with workable solutions that did not involve dropping large bills at a stealer--assuming you could even find one to do the work. 

Through a lot of largely academic discussion conducted mostly for the amusement of a few interested owners (me included), I think we accomplished that. We figured out how to inspect and test the glycol, what you accomplish with a simple drain-and-fill, and devised methods for a complete flush for those owners who wanted to do so. This spring I plan to build @gregndeb's simple adapters and attempt the change with an inexpensive hand pump.

My ultimate goal was (and still is) to create a brief "technical bulletin" summarizing what we figured out. That was last spring's project but between Covid complications and my own tendency to procrastinate, it got kicked out another year.

Of course, since this discussion began the issue has become more complicated. The first wave of 400s are due for service, nuCamp has changed the configuration of the system in the new 320s, and Alde has switched to a different recommended glycol. What I come up with based on my 2015 will be a little dated right out of the gate, but hopefully clever owners of newer models will be able to adapt the basic ideas to their own units. Stay tuned!   

MadCityJack

pthomas745 said:

I love my Alde...but this isn't a NuCamp caused issue.   This is an Alde design problem. 

I’m glad you have an affection for your Alde and I too like the way it functions.  But that is not the point.  The point is that thousands of NuCamp customers have an Alde and face the obstacle of having the glycol refreshed according to Alde’s servicing guidelines.   It seems that either NuCamp Dealers do not have the appropriate equipment or Alde service technicians are not willing/able to work on NuCamp products.  I don’t know that the problem is an Alde design problem.   Rather, it seems an ingenious piece of equipment, but not a simple piece of equipment that DIYers can manage.  At least not yet.  I can’t imagine going to my Toyota Service Department with a service need and being told that they don’t have the equipment to properly service it.  I am not going to sell my T@B because of this and I think some of the solutions offered here are quite clever work arounds.  My suggestion, perhaps naively, would be not to license NuCamp dealerships unless they had the appropriate equipment and training to address all servicing of a NuCamp product.  The reality is that the trailer industry is still in its infancy.  From what I’ve learned about NuCamp, it builds a quality product and has a loyal following—despite this issue.  

gulfarea

I like my Alde very much as it does not wake me up like the furnace type. As far as the intervals between fluid changes you car gets used every day and its motor and radiator has all kinds of different metals in its water jacket and gets heated to high temps, so how often do you change your car's fluid.  As it is new to the market we will have more info on what intervals should be used as time goes by. Art

Tampakayaker

Tried looking up these two answers and keep getting an oops something went wrong page.

320S How much fluid is need for a complete refill?

What is the brand/type from Amazon?

gbell

When I took my Tab to a local rv dealer of Tabs and airstreams, for the change out at almost $500 for 5 gal and 2 hrs labor, they were able to do this work because the Airstream which they service, uses the same Alde system.  they have only 1 person experienced and the pump system to do this work.  it is crazy but at least I had someone near by, next near place is almost 3 hrs away.

ScottG

Tampakayaker said:

Tried looking up these two answers and keep getting an oops something went wrong page.

320S How much fluid is need for a complete refill?

What is the brand/type from Amazon?

@Tampakayaker, these questions are answered in this discussion--I just can't understand why you don't want to hunt through nine pages to find them.  :-) :-)

For an older 320, three gallons of Century TF-1 Transfer Fluid should do the job. Actual system capacity is probably closer to two gallons.

Tampakayaker

ScottG said:

Tampakayaker said:

Tried looking up these two answers and keep getting an oops something went wrong page.

320S How much fluid is need for a complete refill?

What is the brand/type from Amazon?

@Tampakayaker, these questions are answered in this discussion--I just can't understand why you don't want to hunt through nine pages to find them.  :-) :-)

For an older 320, three gallons of Century TF-1 Transfer Fluid should do the job. Actual system capacity is probably closer to two gallons.

Thanks. I did see a 3 gallon mention for a 400. 

Like I said the search function kept giving me an error.

ScottG

Yeah, the search function can be hit or miss, even when it is not generating errors! 

MadCityJack

gbell said:

When I took my Tab to a local rv dealer of Tabs and airstreams, for the change out at almost $500 for 5 gal and 2 hrs labor, they were able to do this work because the Airstream which they service, uses the same Alde system.  they have only 1 person experienced and the pump system to do this work.  it is crazy but at least I had someone near by, next near place is almost 3 hrs away.

Congratulations you found someone.  What is the name of the dealership?

Sharon_is_SAM

I emailed nuCamp tech about this and he reported the 320s take about 3 gallons and the 400s about 4 gallons.  It may not actually require that much, but since you need to buy a full gallon at a time, he prescribed these volumes.

Tampakayaker

Sharon_is_SAM said:

I emailed nuCamp tech about this and he reported the 320s take about 3 gallons and the 400s about 4 gallons.  It may not actually require that much, but since you need to buy a full gallon at a time, he prescribed these volumes.

THANKS!!

ScottG

What, @Sharon_is_SAM? You don't just take my word for it?!  :-)