Changing out the Alde fluid.

ScottG

@TabbyShack, I (and as best I can tell other contributors to this discussion) just used regular pH strips to test the Alde glycol. I'm not aware of special strips for this purpose. Perhaps the special part is the freeze-protection indicator, which--as you noted--is rendered superfluous if you have a proper refractometer.

The other thread that I mentioned was about checking the glycol level. To the best of my knowledge, all info about checking glycol quality is contained or repeated in this discussion. 

Your frustration is not misplaced. Conflicting information and an apparent lack of qualified and properly equipped service locations are what inspired this lengthy discussion in the first place as owners tried to determine what service was really necessary and how to complete it properly themselves. As you clearly determined for yourself, quick answers were not forthcoming. Regardless, despite the "paralysis by analysis" appearance, we did figure a lot out and several owners came up with creative solutions which they documented here.

My original plan (now a year old) was to come up with an inexpensive and relative easy DIY solution, test it on my own T@B, and then consolidate all the critical information into a brief document. That is still my intention, but we all know that good intentions are most useful as a paving material to warmer places.  ;-)

ScottG

@Mellow_Yellow, the approach you took is certainly straightforward. However, simply pulling the plug will only drain about half of the glycol in the system. There are high points in the heating loop that will prevent complete drainage regardless of how much you tip the trailer back and  forth. That is why a forced flush is needed to get everything out. Not the best design, for sure, but it's what we got.

That said, If you replace even half the glycol every year or two, you will still be well ahead of doing nothing and your glycol will very likely be fine in terms of both freeze and corrosion protection. Many owners--especially those who are less inclined to tinker or hunt down an elusive service center--have settled for exactly this strategy.

(Edit February 2020: Looking back at my notes, simple drain and refill will probably replace closer to 2/3--maybe even more--of the total glycol in a typical 320. This may differ for 400s and for the newest 320s in which they glycol loop has been reconfigured.)

[Deleted User]

Thanks Mellow Yellow.  The issue is if you just open the drain plug you can only get 30-35% of the fluid out.  From what I've read in this very long thread, there is only one way to get the fluid out and that is to take it to a dealer who has a very special pump.  

[Deleted User]

The more I think about it, (and after reading Scott's comments above) perhaps just draining what you can from the drain plug EVERY YEAR would be sufficient to dilute the old antifreeze to a safe level.  It would likely still be quite less expensive to buy a gallon of glycol each year than drive long distances to find a qualified Alde service location and pay for the service.  

Regarding the test strips, I learned that there are stips for extended life coolant and regular coolant and if you use the wrong one you will get an incorrect reading.  

To add to the frustration of finding an authorized service location, I called the one close to me listed on the Alde site and they said they don't service Alde systems because they just don't like to. I told them they were listed as an authorized service location, he said he knew that but they usually turn down work on Alde systems!

ScottG

@TabbyShack, prompted by your earlier comment I took a look at the various Accustrip products. I confess the difference is largely lost on me--I have no sense of which (if any) would be appropriate for the particular propylene glycol concoction used in the Alde. It does seem that what these strips do offer is testing of several different parameters, but how that affects pH measurements--or whether you can measure pH alone just fine with standard strips--is also unclear.

Regardless, I can say that the two methods I used (full-range pH paper and a laboratory pH meter) gave similar results and didn't reveal any significant difference in new vs. used glycol.

[Deleted User]

Good to know Scott. I will just skip the testing all together and will press on in my quest to figure out how to get it changed out on schedule, or just do a partial change every year myself.  All in all, this thread has really helped me realize there is a more complex issue at hand regarding proper changing of the fluid, so that is worth alot. 

pthomas745

If we could only turn the trailer upside down, the glycol would just flow right out of the expansion tank.  I think Alde is just making stuff up as they go along, and we are the beta testers.

PS:  love my Alde....

[Deleted User]

hahaha, "Shake it Like a Polaroid Picture" might work too!  Yes, I love mine too.  

Mellow_Yellow

ScottG said:

@Mellow_Yellow, the approach you took is certainly straightforward. However, simply pulling the plug will only drain about half of the glycol in the system. There are high points in the heating loop that will prevent complete drainage regardless of how much you tip the trailer back and  forth. That is why a forced flush is needed to get everything out. Not the best design, for sure, but it's what we got.

That said, If you replace even half the glycol every year or two, you will still be well ahead of doing nothing and your glycol will very likely be fine in terms of both freeze and corrosion protection. Many owners--especially those who are less inclined to tinker or hunt down an elusive service center--have settled for exactly this strategy.

@S@ScottG  - Much appreciated. Given how degraded the glycol was, now that I have circulated the good/new fluid, I plan to drain the Alde a second time to get more of the 6+ year old glycol out. From then on, I'll drain/replenish it yearly, now that I know it's only a partial drain... 

[Deleted User]

I'm starting to feel pretty good about just doing an annual partial dump and refill. Yea, in your case with the 6 year old glycol, you might need to do it again but that still beats the alternative of finding a place to take it that has the special equipment, towing it there and back, and paying for the service. 

ScottG

pthomas745 said:

If we could only turn the trailer upside down, the glycol would just flow right out of the expansion tank.  I think Alde is just making stuff up as they go along, and we are the beta testers.

PS:  love my Alde....

Hmmm. I think I'll shift my efforts to designing and building a T@B "rotisserie" for precisely this purpose. The more I ponder it, the more I think it would be easier than trying to change the glycol with the trailer upright.  :-) 

N7SHG_Ham

@ScottG just make sure you empty the gray and black tanks before turning the tab upside down

mickietucs

Reaching out --- anyone in Tucson, AZ that has the pump for this project, and willing to do this on my T@B (gladly pay you)? 

ReenieG

Here's some more information on the Alde glycol fluid exchange. I thought this was helpful. Please note, this guy is not in the USA.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSLyK42ORpI

Also, I found this would be something that would be an efficient and economic way to replace the glycol. Has anyone tried doing it this way with this type of pump here in the US?

https://youtu.be/ADhn3cdR954

[Deleted User]

Haha, don't think you needed to add the "not in the USA" caveat! Haha.  Informative though  what I could understand with my southern accent "ears"

[Deleted User]

Do we have any manual bleeder valves in T@b 400's? I saw somewhere we have auto in the U.S. but wondering if there might also be a manual one somewhere. 

ScottG

Good videos, @ReenieG. Unfortunately the five-year G13 is not an option for Aldes in the US. Intrepid DIYs may want to experiment with other concoctions, but the two-year Century TF-1 is the currently the only Alde approved glycol for north American use.

The submersible pump rig in the second video is pretty slick (and simple). The problem with T@Bs--at least the 320 versions--is that access to the expansion tank and its associated hoses is extremely limited. Something similar could probably be accomplished using the adapters designed by @gregndeb. Ultimately, the concept is the same regardless of the specific details--in order to get a full exchange of glycol you need to force new glycol through the system with some sort of pump.

@TabbyShack, 320s have (or at least had) a manual bleeder valve on the passenger side of the rear convector. Again, access is tricky as that convector is buried behind and under the rear bench. Regardless, accounts to date suggest the automatic air bleeders on north American Aldes do their job just fine. Turning up the speed of the circulator pump (as suggested in ReenieG's second video) may facilitate this.

If you have the patience and interest to slog through it, these topics are discussed in greater detail earlier in this thread.

Denny16

On the 400, the Alde bleed valve is on the high point, on top the washroom heater element in the shower area.
cheers

[Deleted User]

I just got off the phone with Beckley's RV (Large NuCamp dealer) in Thurmont Maryland. They do use a pump to empty out all of the glycol but its a pump they made not direct from Alde. He was very aware of what I was talking about so that was a change from other conversations I've had with other non-NuCamp service locations.  The cost though is $500!  He said $400 for labor (takes 3 hours) and $100 for the glycol (in addition to a 2 1/2 hour drive each way). Soooo, I've decided to just do a gravity drain twice a year (or even 3 times) to get out as much as I can and just refill myself.  

qhumberd

@ReenieG and @TabbyShack and @ScottG I think the do it yourselfers here can develop a simple procedure to flush the Alde system and refill for far less than 500.00. I just purchased a small 12V submersible pump based upon the British video linked above and feel that in my T@B access to the tank and the tubing is easy enough to take apart and then flush it all out and refill with the new fluid. A couple of buckets, some hoses and clamps, and the little pump to move the fluids is all it should be right? It just did not look as hard or as messy as fooling with wheel bearings and brakes, which a lot of forum members (including me) have done.

I will do this when it warms up some here in TN and try to photograph and/or video the procedure. Our Alde systems are basically a closed loop system with a small in line pump so unless something about the Alde pump in the loop would be a problem with the flush and fill, I can't think of other problems. But if others can think of something I need to be cautious about before I start, please chime in. I don't want to post a "How I failed servicing and broke my Alde video". We do need something to guide us for our US made Alde units don't we?

And thanks to @Denny16 for knowing that the 400 has a bleed valve in the bathroom. Which makes sense since that part of the loop is highest. Cheers to you for that info as I would not likely have looked.

BTW here is the little pump I picked:

12V 3.8cm Stainless Steel Electric Diesel Pump, Fuel Pump Submersible Pump Oil Pump Pumping Machine 8500 (r/m)

Brand: Hilitand

4.4 out of 5 stars    72 ratings

---

Price:

$19.69

Sharon_is_SAM

We had our glycol exchanged in 2019 by nuCamp.  They did a gravity exchange.  Not sure if they now use a pump.  

I am concerned that owners will feel compelled to pay a high cost to a dealer to have the glycol pumped even though we as a group are not convinced that it really makes a difference functionally.  

It makes sense to me that simply draining, refilling, and thoroughly circulating/mixing (repeating this as you see fit) will greatly dilute any older glycol to the point of insignificance.  If the pH of the new “mix” is the same as the old product, I say you are good!  

DenisP

Austin confirmed they use the proprietary Alde pump to do the glycol exchange and the cost for NuCamp to do the service is $360 +tax. 

Verna

Thank you, @DenisP, for contacting Austin. 

Just to reiterate, $360 + tax would be the factory’s repair/service’s price for completely draining the old glycol and replacing with new glycol. 

MadCityJack

If one were to travel to NuCamp for Alde servicing with Glycol change, what other specialty maintenance would you recommend they do that are beyond the scope of most dealerships?  For me, it would easily be 9 1/2 hours on the road with just my vehicle (not towing), so with my TAB, easily 1-2 over night stays to and fro.  So far, none of the TAB dealers I have contacted have the proprietary Alde flushing equipment.  I think I will continue to pursue finding a local Wisconsin service provider that will do the flush and if unsuccessful I will try the approach outlined above, i.e., serial draining/adding to dilute.  Thanks for all your input.  

Verna

@MadCityJack, Austin and group can do almost anything you want to pay for. You would need to contact repair@nucamprv.com, discuss what you want via email, discuss prices, discuss an appointment and how long it will take, and make sure you make reservations at one of the Area motels. 

nhmike

I used and really liked gregndeb's april 2020 post, page 6 this thread.  slick.

travelingdocwife

Have a 2014 t@b S floor plan and haven't yet replaced glycol (still not below level as time spent abroad over the last 3 years).  Thoughts?  Advice?

Mellow_Yellow

travelingdocwife said:

Have a 2014 t@b S floor plan and haven't yet replaced glycol (still not below level as time spent abroad over the last 3 years).  Thoughts?  Advice?

Hello @travelingdocwife and fellow 2014 owner! The Alde needs to be fully drained every 2 years, regardless of how the fluid in the reservoir appears. But it requires a special draining pump that is only available at certified Alde shops. You can drain it yourself, but it only drains 1/3 of the fluid at a time. Only use Century TF-1, available on amazon.

My plan is to 'self' drain and replenish mine once a year so that the propylene glycol gets 'refreshed' often. 

Here are a few of the many discussions on this topic.

• https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/12546/question-i-drained-the-alde-and-the-drainage-was-pink-what-does-that-mean#latest
• https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/2665/changing-out-the-alde-fluid#latest
  

[Deleted User]

I decided I will just be doing a partial gravity change every year and I just finished doing it for the first time.  Here is a photo of how much I was able to get out by raising and lowering the tongue. Each jug is a gallon. Since I over filled one jug and spilled about 1/8 cup switching out the jugs I'd  say this is closer to a gallon and a half. 

ScottG

That seems about right, @TabbyShack. Pulling the plug on a 320 will drain the Alde jacket, the reservoir tank, and the length of hose in between. The Alde jacket holds 0.92 gallons (per Alde specs), and the reservoir and hose probably holds just shy of another another half gallon. Based on quick volume estimates of the remaining hose and convectors, less than a gallon remains trapped in the system and cannot be drained via the low point.

With a total system volume estimated at ~2 gallons, I'd say you got the bulk of it.