Found a fix for "No Alde heat" when all fuses are good

SteveK

Be careful soldering thermal cutouts as the heat of soldering can cause them to melt open.  91C is pretty hot for a circuit board and would only result due to a major fault that might otherwise cause a fire.  If you suspect you have had this part fail, be sure to inspect the circuit board for charging or damage.  Replace only with an identical part.  91C (195F) is at least twice the temperature a circuit board should ever see under normal conditions.

ChanW

Yes. Agree. Excellent advice.

Photomom

Verna said:

@ChanW, I was working with Marvin and we agreed it would be quicker for me to replace rather than troubleshoot any longer. We never discussed replacing a soldered fuse, and I do carry an inexpensive soldering iron.  After all, I was without heat, and even AZ gets cool at night. Thank goodness I always make room for a compression sack with my sleeping bag inside

But anyway, no, the circuit board was not sent back to Alde. After working with different circuit boards for most of my career, I’m always curious about burn marks showing what failed.  The phone company never allowed us to replace anything soldered on a circuit board, preferring to allow those companies with a static free environment to refurbish the circuit boards.  (I cringed at how many of my co-workers treated the circuit boards without regard to possible damage by static electricity.)

I'm guessing you carry a multimeter too, so if you still have the circuit board, it would be interesting to know if F2 is the culprit.

Verna

@Photomom, I found a place in AZ to recycle it and I knew I didn’t need to keep it. It’s long gone to circuit board heaven

Hobien

This is our 4th year with our 2015 (bought in 2014) T@B Max Q. We left Dec 31 from the KC area for 7 weeks on the road. The 1st night out we fired up the Alde for hot water and everything worked fine until the next morning when we noticed the water was only lukewarm and the Alde wouldn't come on at all. I checked all the obvious fuses as well as the 2 on the Alde itself, they were all fine(its never something easy).  I googled troubleshooting and originally came up with this post from a guy in the UK   https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/alde-3010-blank-control-panel-solution-fix.154521/   Sure enough, when I tested the thermal fuse it tested "open" and I confirmed this by bypassing the fuse with some alligator clips (diagnostic only) and the Alde fired right up (you have some limited access to this fuse without removing the PCB).  Grrrrrr, 1st night out, seriously?????  Luckily we always carry our sleeping bags and can heat water with propane or an electric tea-kettle.   We purchased a small electric personal heater that helped take the "chill out" for the rest of the trip when we had electricity.
When we got home I went ahead and ordered the fuse, pulled the PCB and found a place in the KC area called Phone Medic that for $30 had the fuse replaced for me in less than 2 hrs. Plan B was to attempt the solder repair myself but without any of the tools or experience this seemed like money well spent. Everything is working fine again but a little disconcerting that this appears to be happening to several of us. Thanks for the great pictures and write up.  FYI,  I didn't notice any burn marks on the PCB.                                                                                       

jgram2

@Hobien  At a quick glance, the information re the thermal fuse you linked to at motorhomefun appears to be consistent with the initial post in this discussion by @ChanW. Is that correct?

Hobien

Yes, that was initially how I found out about problems with a thermal fuse in the Alde and later found this post about the same thing. Point being, we’re all talking about the same problem with the same fuse.

jgram2

That's such a relief to me! Thank you!

db_cooper

Well our Alde up and quit today.  Had been using it all winter keeping the camper around 55 degrees. I shut it off 2 weeks ago as we were going on vacation.  Turned it on the morning, went out this afternoon, and camper was cold.  Checked the fuses, and all was good.  Remembered this thread, and jumped the thermal fuse on the control board, and it fired right up.

Apparently the newer Alde has a resettable thermal fuse.  Has anyone (ChanW?) put one on their Alde?    I'm hoping to do that.  If not, I'll be carrying a short wire with alligator clips to jump it in an emergency.  Not going to worry about frying the rest of the control board if it's a cold camp.

I never should have responded to that Alde reliability thread.

jkjenn

 jumped the thermal fuse on the control board, and it fired right up.

Where did you find the directions to do that?

db_cooper

jkjenn said:

 jumped the thermal fuse on the control board, and it fired right up.

Where did you find the directions to do that?

It was in the link Hobien provided above.  Good to know in a pinch, since it appears to be a fuse that fails over time from fatigue.  I'm planning on putting in a resettable fuse, will post pictures when it's done.

jkjenn

db_cooper said:

jkjenn said:

 jumped the thermal fuse on the control board, and it fired right up.

Where did you find the directions to do that?

It was in the link Hobien provided above.  Good to know in a pinch, since it appears to be a fuse that fails over time from fatigue.  I'm planning on putting in a resettable fuse, will post pictures when it's done.

Following...seems like a really good idea.

ChanW

+1

ericnliz

+2

ChrisK

ChanW said:

Yes, ours is one of the first that Little Guy installed the Alde in. Our driver-side wall even has the hole cut in it for the old style furnace exhaust, right next to the Alde exhaust.

Ours has that too. It is a unique little "quirk". At first, I thought it was part of the Alde vent system but then I looked under the bench and saw it went nowhere and just laughed. It was probably installed in all the walls by default but when they switched to Alde, they already had the walls made. 

db_cooper

https://m.ebay.com/itm/10x-Dryer-Thermal-Fuse-Fit-Whirlpool-7MWED5600BW0-7MWG44500-7MWG66007-7MWG66705-/282804043092?_trksid=p2385738.m4383.l4275.c10&_mwBanner=1

I'm thinking of soldering wires to the board with blade connectors and using these dryer fuses with same 91c cutoff.  Not at home to find a mounting point for the fuse, but thought I'd run the idea here first.

Photomom

Here’s a very interesting article about the ethics of thermal fuses (they contribute to the problem of repairable products being sent to landfills). At the end of the article there’s a suggestion to crimp the new thermal fuse in place instead of soldering.

http://www.evonet.com/evonet/index.asp?Page=34&ID=34

Photomom

If I were in the position to have to replace the thermal  fuse I think I’d try soldering sockets to the board that I could plug the fuse into. Ideally you’d use a one position socket but I haven’t turned up any examples so I’d clip the second lead off one of these. https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/sullins-connector-solutions/PPPC021LFBN-RC/S7035-ND/810174

Of course one would only do this after any chance of a warranty repair was exhausted.

db_cooper

So I chickened out on putting in a replaceable fuse, and ordered 10 thermal fuses from DigiKey just like the originals.

I happen to have a computer genius, inventor, motor head, Jack of all trades friend next door, with albeit rusty soldering skills.  We only ruined the first one because we spaced on the heat sink alligator clips for the first solder point. 

I now have a lifetime supply of fuses, and knowledge of how to repair.  I will be making a short 16 guage wire with alligator clips to jump this fuse if it goes bad on a trip, as long as there's no sign of something malfunctioning/burning.  Also taped a Torx 10 to the Alde so I can get to the circuit board.

Hopefully someone else will do the plug in fix and post, if this fails again I'd be tempted.

db_cooper

Resurrecting this old thread.  Fast forward from April 2018 to January 2022, and it's time to replace the 91c thermal fuse on the board again.  This time when it popped,  I had to turn off the Alde for a while to reset,  but once I jumped the thermal fuse it fired right up.  These fuses seem to have about a 3 year lifespan in my experience.

Will dip into my "lifetime" supply of 10, which is now down to 8 since we ruined one last time. Hopefully get it right the first time this time.  

Wondering are people that don't know about this replacing their boards every 3 years, or am I just lucky?

ReenieG

@ChanW I will definitely bookmark this post thread, thanks! I had a subwoofer with a bad capacitor that started a horrible humming. I saved myself about $300 by replacing a bad capacitor that I found on Amazon. Typically, these boards are "throw away." They don't expect people to go through the trouble to take them apart and fix them. In fact, I replaced two circuit boards in my home refrigerator. The boards were $200 each, so much cheaper than a new fridge but probably would have even been less if I knew exactly which components were faulty on the boards.

db_cooper

good idea @ReenieG
I came back here just to confirm our past mistake of not using enough heat sink!

ChanW

@db_cooper, sorry to hear that!
I'm superstitious so I hate to say it, but ours hasn't failed again...
It really doesn't make much sense that it would fail regularly, unless the device is actually working correctly, and the board does overheat on these rare, random occasions (in which case, Alde has a problem with their design!)

Michigan_Mike

@db_cooper  -  I’m curious if this problem occurs on start up of the Alde unit or did you experience this after the Alde has been on and running for a while.  I’m sure you’ve read in the past where people have blown fuses on start up, etc.  I’m religious so far as my sequence of both firing up the Alde unit and shutting it down.  When I set up camp I have the trailer electric up and running before I mess with the Alde system.   Once the trailer’s 30A power cord is either plugged directly into shore power and the circuit breaker at the pedestal is flipped on and the trailer is energized I then power up the Alde.  And when breaking camp I do things in reverse…. Shut the Alde off first, flip breaker at pedestal, unhook 30A power cord, etc.  

When things like this happen I always suspect a grounding issue, loose connection, etc.  Similar things have happened over the years but by sticking to my start-up/shut-down procedure I have not had any fusing issues with the Alde since.  I would in the interim be checking all connections in your buss terminal grounding block in the trailer, tighten any electric converter box terminals you can get to, Alde terminals, grounds, etc.  Sometimes a little elbow grease works as electric connections can heat up and heat and loose connections do create an electrical imbalance that will blow fuses and create frustration and anxiety therein.  

ChanW

@db_cooper,
If I remember, there were a couple of brand-choices on DigiKey. I used this one:

https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/cantherm/SDF-DF091S/1014756?s=N4IgTCBcDaIMwEYDsBaBCyoHIBEQF0BfIA

Maybe you used a different brand?

db_cooper

@ChanW, that's the same one from Digikey that I have.  Hopefully I'm just lucky that way!

@Michigan_Mike, like you I'm religious in start up and shut down procedures. Haven't blown any fuses in the camper at all.  This time the Alde hadn't been used in several months, and I'm not sure how long it was running before it quit, but probably no more than 2 hours.  I really think it is just these thermal fuses fatiguing.

I ran the Alde 24 hours with my alligator clip bypass and no excess heat or hiccups. I checked it frequently, knowing I could potentially fry the board or worse, but I won't run it again until I replace the fuse. Part of me wants to replace the fuse with a wire! 

ReenieG

Photomom said:

Here’s a very interesting article about the ethics of thermal fuses (they contribute to the problem of repairable products being sent to landfills). At the end of the article there’s a suggestion to crimp the new thermal fuse in place instead of soldering.

http://www.evonet.com/evonet/index.asp?Page=34&ID=34

@Photomom ironically, that link is "faulty," lol. I'd like to read that article but couldn't find it on their site. Do you have a good link? TIA

Photomom

Try this. http://www.evonet.com/evonet/docs/Thermal%20fuses.pdf

ReenieG

Thanks @Photomom that works!

Tabulating

Is there a part number for this board?

Not having hot water while on a two or three month road trip would seriously dent our fun.

If they are not too much money, I might buy a spare board and some thermal fuses.

Then there would be less pressure for an immediate fix to the bad board.

Looking for parts for the Alde while on the road is always a challenge. I am not a fan of a just in time supply chain when we are camping.