400 is not operating at all on battery power

gooddogs74

@SAM thank you for your detailed information.   When we had the trailer parked at our house right after we got it, we use the 30 to 15 amp converter and plugged it into an outlet in the garage for 2 days. After that, the battery button the control panel read full. Is that the best way to tell if full or is there another accessory I need? 

We now have it parked on our property and have turned the battery to the off position.  

  I found this on Amazon, is this an example of the type of charger you recommend? 
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00068XCQU/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1514762276&sr=8-2&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=battery+tender+plus&dpPl=1&dpID=41GJoSjcVrL&ref=plSrch

LSkrabut

@gooddogs74

Might want to consider one which is spec'ed for AGM battery 

For example: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00DJ5KEEA?ref=emc_b_5_t  

Myself, if the trailer is plugged in, I am going to use the built in Power Center for maintaining the battery. I have gone through and disconnected the trailer via the switch, pulled most of the fuses and turned off the CB's for items such as the fridge, radio, TV, Alde which draws power and then turned on the disconnect so the trailer maintain the battery and lights work. I feel this totally isolates those devices during winter or long term disuse of the T@B 400. While I have solar, the cover defeats that means of keeping the battery maintained.

gooddogs74

@LSkrabut that appears to be the one I linked to, so that's good!   As far as disconnecting I was told just to turn knob by the battery counterclockwise and that would prevent it from draining.  Hope that is right?

LSkrabut

@gooddogs74

Your Amazon link was to the older version and was a 3 stage vs the newer 4 stage version on the Battery Tender. While I have the older version, If I was to purchase one now, I would get the newer version.

You are correct, disconnecting will prevent a drain on the battery. What I described, was a means of lowering the drain and keeping the charge from the built in Power Center (converter located under the closet). 
Also when plugging into AC, I turn off the Alde at the control panel and disconnect the switch, check power for correct wiring with a simple checker plug and voltage meter, Plug in, turn on the disconnect to protect from user induce surges...  

For my long term disuse, I pull the fuse and throw the CB for the fridge and open its door. Same for the Alde and radio. I pulled the input 12Vdc power cable to the TV. I also still keep the trailer plugged into a 15 amp house circuit. Planning on upgrading to 30 amp once I sell my Class A.

Good to remember on the Power Center, Fuses are for 12Vdc and CB are for 120Vac.

Sharon_is_SAM

@gooddogs74 - I am not sure what the battery button is - can you take a picture?  After 2 days on shorepower, did you disconnect and then read the battery monitor?  Try reading the battery monitor after you have disconnected from shorepower for at least 30 minures. If you read your meter while on shorepower, your battery charge reading will be artificially elevated.  Another way to read the battery charge is to get one of these https://www.walmart.com/ip/Equus-Innova-3721-Battery-and-Charging-System-Monitor/15137663.  Much more accurate than the lights that the 400 uses as a display.  Just put it into the 12 v receptacle in the inside front of the trailer.

You are on the right track for a smart charger, but I think you may want something more powerful.

gooddogs74

@SAM, I did happen to take a picture at the walkthrough!  They told me counterclockwise was off and that I should leave that off when I wasn't using the trailer and it would prevent from draining the battery.  I will look into the monitor and read more about the battery chargers.  

I don't remember, but I don't think I disconnected when I pushed the battery monitor.  If I recall, prior to being plugged in, it didn't even work because of the fuse situation.  

gooddogs74

gooddogs74

I am terribly sorry for this giant picture.  I cannot figure out how to delete it to resize somehow. 

Note:  Not a problem, I handled this one for you.  Mike

Sharon_is_SAM

Ok - that is your battery disconnect switch.  It is pictured in the battery charge position - tow with it like this so your break away brakes are active.  If you turn it counter clockwise, you isolate the battery and prevent drain as they said, although over time, it will self discharge.  Not essential to isolate the battery when you hook up to shorepower, just make sure appliances are off.  Also, if you want to charge the battery while on shorepower leave it in the charge position.  It makes sense that the battery monitor did not work due to the fuse.  I am not convinced you have a charged battery and I think you need to make sure it is charged before towing it for repair.  

gooddogs74

@SAM I will be towing it Wednesday morning (about 20 miles).  Do you think the two days of charging was not enough to fix it?  Would you suggest I bring it back to my house (it currently sits about a mile away on property we own) and plug it back in tomorrow?  I can order that monitor on Amazon and have it by Tuesday.  But if the fuse is not working, will that still work?   Thank you for letting me know about the breakaway brakes.  I will make sure to keep it on while driving.   Sorry for all the questions, I really appreciate your patience. 

Sharon_is_SAM

Do you know where the blown fuse is located?  Is it the fuse hanging off the green wire under the disconnect switch?  See quote below.  I think you may have the same problem.  You can not rely on the 400 battery monitor when on shorepower.  It will reflect the Voltage output of the converter, not the charge state of the battery.  (Scott G I quoted you here!)

1.  If the fuse at the battery is blown, your circuit is incomplete and you will not be able to charge the battery via the converter/shorepower or via your tow vehicle.  And your battery monitor will only reflect the converter.

2.  If the battery is depleted too low, your converter may not be able to recharge it anyway.

3.  You need to isolate the battery (done), get a smart charger and charge your battery directly.  Make sure you disconnect from shorepower.  Then remove the smart charger, replace the 30 amp fuse with another 30 amp fuse as others have done, then turn your disconnect switch to "ON" and see if you are able to run off battery.

"From WanderingWonder - October 9th:

We purchased our 400 back in July and had the same issue, we brought it home and plugged into shore power and then once it was off we assumed the battery was fully charged, nothing was working, fuse was blown, etc. After going back and forth with the dealer and nucamp, this is what was "said" to be our problem.

The battery was below the capacity for the converter that the 400 comes with and it cannot supply enough charge to recharge the battery from that low. So every time we tried to charge it the fuse kept blowing, it was trying to overdo itself so to speak. The solution for us was to take the battery out or get access to it and put it on a charger until it was fully charged. So basically, it had been sitting at the lot and and lost too much battery life, we don't know a lot about batteries, voltage, etc. But after the battery was fully charged we have not had any problems with it since and we have essentially gone camping every weekend since then. Hopefully your issues were solved!

2018 T@B 400 Silver and Black "Luxo" / 2009 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo - Jeremy and Andrea - Southport, NC"

gooddogs74

@SAM yes it is the green wire one there that you see.  That is what they said was to be replaced with the parts that they sent me I think.  I'm thinking once I get that fixed, everything should be ok?  Once that is fixed with the 40 A, hopefully I should be able to just plug it back in to shorepower and charge it, correct?  I am going to order the little plug in battery monitor you suggested.  And I will probably order the charger too just in case.  Perhaps that would be safer.  Hopefully it will not be hard for me to figure out.  

Sharon_is_SAM

Gooddogs74, please read WanderWonder’s experience above.  Even if you replace the fuse with the 40 amp, you may have difficulty recharging that big battery.  If you recharge it before, you may prevent another fuse from blowing.

gooddogs74

@SAM, I think I understand, thank you.  So the battery tender plus that I linked to you said was on the right track but I may want more powerful.  Would I need to look for something with more amps, then?  The 12V is the type of power, correct?  Perhaps I can message Wanderingwonder and find out which one worked for them?    

I am now of course also concerned it may be damaged from what I've been reading.  When I call NuCamp, I will voice that concern to them as well.  This is all just such a mess, I wish I would have known this was a problem before I bought it.  

Sharon_is_SAM

Yes, ask WanderingWonder what charger they used.  12 volt is correct, I think you will want more amps.  

gooddogs74

@SAM, thanks I sent them a message.  That one says is charges as well as a 3 amp charger and it is approved for the AGM batteries.  I will look up more information, hope they answer back and if not give it a try.  I am not really looking to buy anything else but I just want everything to work like it's supposed to.  Thank you again, I have learned a lot.  Hopefully will help others as well. 

Ron

   If not hooked up to shorepower and you discharge your 400's AGM to 50% or less state of charge it will take the full 55 amps that your converter outputs, at least for the first few minutes. If that 55 amps is sent through a 30 amp or even a 40 amp fuse it will never work.  You would be overloading the the fuse by either 167% or 138%.  The fuse and wire have to be sized for 55 amps, not the 35 amps that the 320's charger outputs.  I have not looked at a 400, I am only trying to understand the installation from this discussion.
   I would be surprised if DOT allowed the breakaway breaks to go through the battery disconect switch.  Way to easy for someone to disable the safety stopping system.
   You should not have to have a second charger.  The onboard charger only needs the proper size wire and fuse to recharge your nearly new deeply discharged battery.  I think that your AGM battery will be ok once it is recharged.  They are more durable than liquid cells except for charging with too high of a voltage charger.

Sharon_is_SAM

Ron, I think you just defined why WanderingWonder could not charge their depleted battery - too high of a current required and it blew the 30 amp fuse.  Once their battery was charged, the 30 amp fuse held. The factory installed battery disconnect switch on the 320s does isolate the battery from the breakaway brakes.  Not sure if the 400 is wired that way, but we assume that it is.  

Re requiring a smart charger - how will they charge the battery sufficiently to be able to tow safely?  No TaB battery, no breakaway brakes.  They need to tow it somewhere to have the wiring and fuse upgraded.  Then if the battery stays reasonably charged, they may not need the charger.

gooddogs74

The saga continues...I towed the 400 to the Camping World this morning.  Discovered NuCamp was supposed to send white wire along with the red and the fuse/circuit breaker thingie.  Drove another 50 minute round trip to go to Home Depot to buy the white wire.  Get back.  Tech says it is going to be a three hour job.  Not as simple as replacing the fuse holder.  Has to run the new wires from the battery to the converter per diagram sent to me by NuCamp.  All these wires are under the storage area under the bed, so difficult to access.  Called NuCamp to get approval for work under warranty.  They didn't get back in touch with us by 4 PM when they closed, so hopefully they can get in touch with them in the morning so I can get this resolved tomorrow.  I left the camper there overnight.  

They are also supposed to check and charge the battery if it is not charged.  

Side note:  I turned the Alde on to leave some heat in it overnight.  I basically turned on the power and set the thermostat to 65.  It is plugged into shore power at the Camping World.  I heard the glycol gurgling and saw it moving around.  Does that mean everything is working ok with the heater?  This was the first time I have turned it on.  I didn't touch the other thermostat (understanding that is only for the a/c).  

Thanks,
Alanna

Michigan_Mike

gooddogs74 said:

Side note:  I turned the Alde on to leave some heat in it overnight.  I basically turned on the power and set the thermostat to 65.  It is plugged into shore power at the Camping World.  I heard the glycol gurgling and saw it moving around.  Does that mean everything is working ok with the heater?  This was the first time I have turned it on.  I didn't touch the other thermostat (understanding that is only for the a/c).  

Thanks,
Alanna

Sounds like it is working as it should.  You should be able to place your hand by the heat runs in the trailer and feel the heat radiating out from them.  

gooddogs74

Thank you @Michigan_Mike I'm not sure where the heat runs are in the trailer, but hopefully everything will be ok tonight and I will get it back tomorrow and inspect it a little more closely.  Temps where it is located are predicted down to 30 for a few hours.  There is no water in it.  

ScottG

I was wondering why they only sent you red wire (typically used for positive side in a DC system) and not also white (typically used for the negative side). If a wiring upgrade was required between the battery and the converter, it would presumably  involve both lines.

Thanks for the update and for confirming my suspicions about the repair. Sorry it was a more of a pain than it should have been, but I'm glad it seems to be getting resolved.

gooddogs74

@ScottG, I spoke with Elsie,  she said she didn't realize she was supposed to send both, so that was a simple mistake.   I am hoping to hear from them this morning and really hoping they won't give me any trouble about fixing it.   I am planning on taking it out for the first time tomorrow so I need to pick it up this afternoon!  Everyone says their customer service is good  so I think it will be fine. 

ericnliz

@gooddogs74, I'm kind of surprised (and shocked ) that the service center couldn't simply supply you with the same gauge white wire to accomplish, and finish the task at hand. Seems that it would have been an expedited way to solve the problem. Not very often I've heard of Elsie having an oversight. She's an awesome lady & has helped me out on more than one occasion. At any rate, I hope you're back on the road to your adventure & have a safe & happy trip!

gooddogs74

@ericnliz they didn't have thr 8 g wire there.   By the time we figured all this out and were waiting for approval for the labor hours it was not able to be finished that day.   I think the wire oversight was an honest mistake,  she said it was her fault she didn't realize it was needed.   And I didn't realize either.   They sent me an instructions sheet the day before and I didn't review it closely,  just took it to the shop and gave it to them.  

 But the good news is that I emailed the warranty manager at the dealership where I purchased the trailer and he got on the phone this morning and spoke with Renee at NuCamp. They have approved the repairs and it should be done this afternoon!  Fingers crossed!

ericnliz

YIPPPPPPPEEEEE!!! I am hoping for a quick resolve for you! Keep us posted & happy travels to you.

Ron

I stand corrected.  My breakaway brakes do go through the battery switch.  Makes about as much sense has running a bilge pump through a battery switch.  The thinking must be that you will have the propane sniffer and the propane refer on while towing.
Equipment trailers have a dedicated emergency battery for the electric brakes ONLY.  Not sure if sharing the house battery is a good idea.  It appears to be the accepted RV way though.  If you are boondocking and deplete the house batterey, you will not have much breakaway brakes until the hot wire can supply enough amps to the battery to raise the battery voltage enough to make the trailers brakes effective enough to stop the trailer.  If the hot wire on the tow vehicle is even connected!
Probably too many years of truck driving trying to always be as safe as possible for me.  
A friend worked for a trucking company who had a driver in a dump truck have the hitch break and the trailer broke loose and crossed the center line.  The trailer hit a pickup and killed a small boy riding in the pickup.  It can happen.  The emergency braking system was broken at the time.
Now I have learned that after turning off the battery switch when unplugging shore power to save the Alde fuse, you have to turn the battery switch back on to save the breakaway brakes.

ScottG

@Ron, the design may be a holdover from pre-2016 models. Battery cut-offs were not standard then, so it was a moot point. At the time, much of the conversation here on the forum had to do with dead batteries and DIY switch installations.

Appropriating an idea from another member, I installed my cut-off at the converter rather than at the battery. This allows me to fully disconnect the trailer electronics while always keeping the breakaway brakes and tow vehicle charging lines intact.

I don't quite follow why you need to turn off the battery when disconnecting from shore power in order to protect the Alde fuses. Conventional wisdom is that the Alde should be shut off at the control panel before unplugging, but I'm not sure if there is any additional advantage to disconnecting and then reconnecting the battery.

Ron

I like your idea.  Will probably change mine when I upgrade batteries.  Turning off just the Alde is probably good.  I probably went to far to save those itsi-bitsi fuses.

Sharon_is_SAM

Agree with Scott.  Just turn off the Alde at the display panel ( along with everything else that may be still on - fan, pump, lights etc) then disconnect from shorepower.