Bacteria contamination in the water system.

JimEngel

Stagnant drinking water has serious health implications.
Draining the water system, both the fresh water tank and the hot water tank, at the end of each trip is desirable from the point of view of water purity and safety. Bacteria growth is ongoing in stagnant water, with possible serious consequences such as Legionnaires' disease. Although draining the system between trips certainly will help, periodic disinfection is recommended:
"To safeguard the quality of tank water and prevent the possibility of Legionella infections, RV owners should implement regular chlorine disinfection of their water tanks…"
https://www.hindawi.com/journals/criid/2013/286347/

 

Sharon_is_SAM

Good read and reminder.  I assume the Alde heats the water enough to kill bacteria, but the cold water lines and tank can still be a source.  I wonder if we should chlorinate the tank before long term storage in addition to first season use?  Is anybody sanitizing more than once a season?

JimEngel

I had the impression that the hot water system was a big contributing factor. The hot water delivered to the faucets is mixed and thus unlikely to be bacteria free.
I am not sure about the hot water in the Alde tank, I recall that some bacteria is resilient and I think the Alde water is less than a hard boil.
My guess is that if you do only a yearly chlorination than it would be at the beginning of the season.

 

Ratkity

Legionella is a bacteria that likes temps of just below what your hot water heater is set at in the factory. People get sick from the aerosol when the water is running from a faucet or from the mechanics of a building water cooler air conditioner.

Stagnant water is usually because of algae. Rarely do you get black water microbes (coliforms) in your fresh water tank. Those are the nasties you get when you don't wash your hands in the bathroom. It's rare to get those unless you have filled your tank with a contaminated water sources (I went to one campground that had water spigots shut off because of that).

I empty the water tank when I'm done for the weekend. When I am ready for another trip. I fill it up a little, let the faucets run a bit to get the old water out. Drain that water and fill 'er up for the trip. That's it. Remember to empty the gray tank after flushing fresh water so you start the trip with an empty one. 

I don't drink from the fresh water tank. Never have. It's a matter of preference. Being a microbiologist hasn't changed my preference for not drinking out of the fresh water tank. I save the water for flushing, dish washing and showering. 

Sharon_is_SAM

Glad you chimed in Ratkitty.  So no kill off from the Alde heat.  

JimEngel

Mr. Ratkity, do you advocate chlorine water treatment? If so, what schedule and protocol?

Verna

@JimEngel.....ah, that’s “Ms Ratkity”......

ScottG

When set to "hot water only" the Alde heats to about 150F--plenty hot to make you squeal, but (I think) a little shy of what is typically prescribed for sanitizing purposes. When set to "heat and hot water" the Alde temp is even lower--somewhere in the 130-135F range.

I don't regularly drain my hot water tank, but I don't drink from it either. Incidentally, bleach is contraindicated for use in the Alde, as there is some concern it will damage the stainless steel liner.

I sanitize the fresh water tank and lines with bleach at the beginning of each season, and drain the tank fully after each trip. I do drink from the FW tank, figuring any cooties therein will stimulate and strengthen my immune system.  ;-)

We've heard from our resident microbiologist. Any immunologists out there want to weigh in on my theory?  :-)

Homebodyatheart

@SAM, in food service settings there's aerobic and anaerobic bacteria. If I remember correctly, anaerobic isn't bothered by extreme heat or freezing. Another little tidbit is that you can receive food poisoning and not show symptoms for up to two weeks, depending on the particular type and strain. Think back to where all food you have eaten these past two weeks has come from. Unless you handle and cook all your food yourself at home, you really can't be 100% sure part of the time where you picked up "that" bug. Scary stuff, eh. 

Sharon_is_SAM

Homebodyatheart, I am a little hung up on the fact that the Alde does not generate high enough temperatures to kill bugs, may in fact be a prime medium and then you can’t sanitize it

Ratkity

ScottG said:

When set to "hot water only" the Alde heats to about 150F--plenty hot to make you squeal, but (I think) a little shy of what is typically prescribed for sanitizing purposes. When set to "heat and hot water" the Alde temp is even lower--somewhere in the 130-135F range.

I don't regularly drain my hot water tank, but I don't drink from it either. Incidentally, bleach is contraindicated for use in the Alde, as there is some concern it will damage the stainless steel liner.

I sanitize the fresh water tank and lines with bleach at the beginning of each season, and drain the tank fully after each trip. I do drink from the FW tank, figuring any cooties therein will stimulate and strengthen my immune system.  ;-)

We've heard from our resident microbiologist. Any immunologists out there want to weigh in on my theory?  :-)

Why @ScottG! How did you know my concentration was in immunology? My only comment is that stuff that are kids' diseases (chicken pox, mumps, etc) can actually be life threatening to adults. That said, the only system in the body that "improves" with age is your immune system. That means your reaction to poison ivy gets worse, your allergies get worst.... LOL. 

JimEngel said:

Mr. Ratkity, do you advocate chlorine water treatment? If so, what schedule and protocol?

Yup, I be female, like V said. And it's Dr. Ratkity.

Why would you chlorinate water that's already chlorinated if you fill up your tank at home? If you are referring to sterilizing (as opposed to just cleaning) your fresh water tank, there are a lot of threads here. For the 11 gal tank, it's a quarter cup bleach to 11 gal. Rinse very well and drain (about 5x with fresh water). A drill pump is helpful. That said, there's no need to sterilize your water tank on a continual basis. Just draining it and letting it air out is sanitation enough between uses. If there is water at the low points or water in the lines, just a flush with household water or park water is enough. 

There are products you can get that don't make your eyes water or crack seals like chlorine can (rem, your chlorine water goes out the gray water tank with seals at the gates). I use non-chlorine cleaners. It's just that I hate the smell and burning of chlorine. I only rinse with the fresh water tank cleaner at the beginning of the season. It also cleans out the gray water tank.

As for duration and frequency of sterilization if you have bad odors from your fresh water that regular household water or fresh water tank cleaners don't flush out: Don't leave the quarter cup + 11 gal in for more than 20 m, rinse very well with non-contaminated water (just checking ....). No need to do more than once a year. 

JimEngel

DOCTOR Ratkity, ten thousand apologies, so many subtleties these days.
First a quick question, does the fact that we are on well water make any realistic difference?
In the bigger picture we have periodic slightly disturbing pronouncements, such as "RV owners should implement regular chlorine disinfection" from apparently serious scientific professionals which sound a little bit like the sky is falling, yet we hesitate to just dismiss them.
Your statement of just drain it and let it air out makes perfect common sense; after all, if three extra bacteria were going to be fatal we would not have to worry about over population.
But there are after all apparently innocuous practices, such as burning treated lumber in your fire place, that can indeed have very serious consequences, and it is sometimes difficult to sort it all out. 
Thanks for the clarification.

rfuss928

Wouldn't winterizing with alcohol or glycol based RV antifreeze have a sterilizing effect??

ScottG

Ratkity@ScottG
...

Why @ScottG! How did you know my concentration was in immunology? 
...

Two for the price of one. Whooda' thunk?!

Ratkity

rfuss928 said:

Wouldn't winterizing with alcohol or glycol based RV antifreeze have a sterilizing effect??

You don't want to winterize with alcohol because it dries out seals, but that STILL doesn't kill all bacteria, especially the ones that sporulate - 10% bleach is still the go-to solution. Glycol is a type of "sugar" and some bacteria can live off of it. The cold combined with glycol make it safe to use as a winterizing agent. The majority of bacteria don't do well in variable cold temps (the up and down of temps). I'm being very general here. There are always exceptions to the rule. 

If you are immunocompromised (like my little sis), drink bottled water. Brush your teeth using bottled water. Be safe and I know those people have long lists of do's and don't's. The Alde heats up the water very high and would kill off most bacteria. Like I said in the above post, getting sewage bacteria in your fresh water tank is rare. Many people soften and chlorinate well water. Those who use well water have it tested. When in doubt and have no bottled water, boil water for 20 minutes before drinking. There are also chlorinating tablets. 

Parks routinely test their water sources. The majority of cities test theirs too (let's not get into MI's issues).

Relax. Drink your favorite drink (some folks' drinks wouldn't allow any bacteria to grow!). Enjoy your camping experience!