Introduction and FOUND a camper

BigGrover

Only about 2-3 mpg difference.  The roominess and full bath made a big difference for us in deciding to upgrade to the 400.  We got the visor that goes up in less than three minutes.  A tent room add on adds to set up time and complexity.  We can be completely set up in less thann 20 minutes.  If my wife could help it would be quicker.  Also think about not having to convert the sofa to a bed at night! I get up early, leave the wife in bed and can sit at the dinette to have coffee and read without disturbing her.  

Stevie

Good you found out about your Jeep's towing capacity. I'll tell you, if I already had an appropriate tow vehicle and I could afford the bigger trailer, I'd go for it.

I hadn't towed much either when I took off in the 400 cross-country last fall. Within a few hours time, it became second nature though. 

I mentioned my worry before the trip to my neighbor and he said something funny about his own learning curve in towing, "You know, that trailer just followed me wherever I went!"

Arwen

BigGrover said:

Only about 2-3 mpg difference.  The roominess and full bath made a big difference for us in deciding to upgrade to the 400.  We got the visor that goes up in less than three minutes.  A tent room add on adds to set up time and complexity.  We can be completely set up in less thann 20 minutes.  If my wife could help it would be quicker.  Also think about not having to convert the sofa to a bed at night! I get up early, leave the wife in bed and can sit at the dinette to have coffee and read without disturbing her.  

Thanks, that really helps!

My boyfriend and I went out kayaking yesterday, and he actually brought up the campers (it's nearly always me who brings them up).  He finally told me that the thing that he likes the most about the 400 is that the bed and table are totally separate from one another . . . and that he loves the large table in the 400.  He loves to spend time looking at maps (especially hiking maps) and tole me that the 400 was the only camper of the three with a table that is big enough to do that.  [He also loves being able to stand up, even in the shower, without his head hitting the ceiling.]

I do like the idea of being able to set up and tear down fast, where you can leave the bed set up and still have an inside dinette.  And, after years of tent camping, I'm not all that fond of having to set up the attached tent just to have enough room. [I watched a YouTube video of the tent set up last night, and this a pretty involved process.]

With the two of us, I'm the one that gets up early. I joke with him that I could make it to the top of a mountain before he gets out of bed in the morning.

Homebodyatheart

I think @Dalehelman has a similar Jeep and puts many miles on it with their 320 Sofitel. While I love the 400 bathroom, neither one of us wants to crawl over the other in the night. When DH is along we sleep two twins. I use the couch cushions between the seat and fridge for his overhanging feet. This works for him. He also prefers to he outside mist of the time, rain or shine. I love my 320S and wouldn’t trade for another model. I would also stay with NuCamp as a manufacturer as they have high quality products and excellent customer service. Good luck with your decision! 

rkj__

The thread I've linked below has an interesting comparison between the 320 and 400.  It goes into some interesting aerodynamic analysis.  Check it out:

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/comment/84840#Comment_84840

Arwen

Stevie said:

Good you found out about your Jeep's towing capacity. I'll tell you, if I already had an appropriate tow vehicle and I could afford the bigger trailer, I'd go for it.

I hadn't towed much either when I took off in the 400 cross-country last fall. Within a few hours time, it became second nature though. 

I mentioned my worry before the trip to my neighbor and he said something funny about his own learning curve in towing, "You know, that trailer just followed me wherever I went!"

Thank you.  I need to think a bit more about this.  I'm planning on making another trip to the dealer this coming weekend. This time my best friend is going with me. I just feel like I need another look at the campers, without my boyfriend's negative vibes on the 320 (just because it's a bit small).  Plus this would give me more of an unbiased opinion (I've perhaps become a little emotionally attached to the little Outback).

BTW: is there any recent information on the 2019 T@B 400 Boondock Lite edition? I cannot find anything on how much it adds to the overall weight or to the tongue weight.  Nor can I find how much this package will cost.

Arwen

We're picking up our new camper tomorrow!  [Sorry in advance for this long post, but I'm a bit hyper right now.]

My best friend and I went to our dealer last Monday and looked at all three campers. Since neither one of our boyfriends were totally on board with the idea of buying a camper, we decided that it might make the most sense for us to purchase one together.  Not only would that make picking out a camper less emotional, it would also mean that the camper would like be used more. The owner spent two hours with us, and he was great about answering all our questions (and all my concerns). We both liked all 3 campers, but we agreed that the T@B 400 (2018) was a bit bigger than what we really needed. Even though I was assured that my Jeep would be able to tow it ok, it is just larger (and heavier) than I feel comfortable towing. Plus its price was quite a bit more than the other two (nearly 25% more).

Then we took a closer look at the LG Mini Max (2019, rough rider package). It is a bit larger than the T@B 320, with a 6 foot interior height, but not much heavier (and I felt that I would be comfortable towing it). And the bed was a bit longer (75" vs. 73"); and it came with solar, a microwave, and a much larger fridge. So perhaps the Mini Max was the best compromise and the best value of the three. Our dealer explained that the price was a special introductory price and would never be this low again. He had received three Mini Maxs just three weeks ago and this was the only one left (and he didn't think he would be able to get any more this year).

Then we went back to look at the T@B 320S again (2018, Boondock package).  Even though this was the smallest of the three, and I would not be able to stand up straight in it, it was still my personal favorite. (My friend is not as tall as me, so the lower ceiling height was not an issue for her). We both liked its layout better than that of the Mini Max. Even though the 320's bed was a bit shorter, you sleep front to back (if you are tall), and I could fit just fine when it was set up as two twin beds (the twin lay out in the Mini Max was width-wise, which was too short for me).

The Mini Max's rear star gazer window was nice, but its dinette seating was pretty much limited to just the two sides, were the 320 has a fully usable u-shape, where I can still sit upright on the rear portion (and I love that the bedding could be stored behind it).  We both liked the 320's table a bit better, even though it is smaller, as it is way more flexible (the Mini Max's was a bit too low for me, and not all that easy to raise and lower).

The Mini Max's larger fridge was appealing, but I really think that the 320's would be big enough to meet our needs.  The overall storage space seemed to be about the same, in fact it felt like there was a bit more usable storage in the 320 (perhaps due to the way the Mini Max's bed/dinette area came to more of a point, and because the larger fridge and its microwave took up some storage area). The higher ceiling in the Mini Max really didn't feel any more comfortable to me, due to the placement of its AC unit, which was right in the middle of the standing/walking space.

Finally, we both felt like the quality in the 320 was a bit better than that of the Mini Max.  Things just seemed to fit a bit better and things looked a bit more substantial. So the 320 won out in the end.

I was not planning on purchasing anything this Summer. The whole purpose of this second visit was so that I could finally make a decision on which camper to order this coming winter.  Then I discovered that placing a custom order would cost me way more than I had expected (even without considering next year's price increase).  So it made sense to buy now, since we had the money and I had already fallen for this little T@B (silver, with blue trim, that actually matches my blue jeep!).  I also liked the 2018 Outback/Boondock package better, with the Yakima Roof Rack with Load Warrior and Spare.  And my friend liked it so much, she was willing to write a check for the down payment (I hadn't bought my checkbook, as I wasn't expecting to buy anything). 

The only thing I would be giving up was the optional roof solar and the little bathroom window.  The dealer told me that he had never sold a 320 with roof solar (it was too expensive and doesn't work all that well in Northern New England: too cloudy much of the time, and most campsites are in the woods). He explained the T@B's battery would be charged by my Jeep when it was being towed and that we might be better off eventually buying a small Honda 2000i generator (which would be able to run the AC).

My Jeep dealer installed a brake controller on Friday, so it is now all set to tow. I'm sooo excited to be getting our little T@B tomorrow, that I know I'm going to have trouble sleeping tonight!

Sharon_is_SAM

@Arwen, did you also have a charge line wired to charge the trailer battery, or does your jeep already have that as part of the 7 pin?

Arwen

SAM said:

@Arwen, did you also have a charge line wired to charge the trailer battery, or does your jeep already have that as part of the 7 pin?

My Jeep came with the 7 pin as part of its towing package, and my dealer assured me that my Jeep would charge the trailer (after talking with my T@B dealer). So, hopefully everything will work correctly.

Freshaire

Congratulations @Arwen!  I think your solution was brilliant. . . .leave the guys out of it all together.  Now you have the trailer you want.  You will be able to enjoy it alone, with your purchasing partner, or your boyfriend.  You won't be sorry.  These are great little campers.  Welcome to the tribe!

Arwen

Freshaire said:

Congratulations @Arwen!  I think your solution was brilliant. . . .leave the guys out of it all together.  Now you have the trailer you want.  You will be able to enjoy it alone, with your purchasing partner, or your boyfriend.  You won't be sorry.  These are great little campers.  Welcome to the tribe!

Thanks! I had been feeling like my boyfriend and I were at an impasse, as we just had different ideas about what we wanted in a camper trailer. I just wanted a small trailer that was more comfortable than my backpacker tent, with a shower/toilet. I was willing to compromise, but it was beginning to look like I would have to settle for a camper that bigger than I was comfortable towing. It was my idea to make the move to a camper and it has been my dream to see as many of the National Parks as I could after I retired (which is still some years off), and it was me who was doing all the research and putting in all the effort to find a camper that would work for us. And I was beginning to get tired of him always finding something that he didn't like about what I had picked.

And then my best friend (who had recently retired) became interested in the small campers that I had been looking at (the T@Bs and the Mini Max). She and her boyfriend actually stopped to look at them before my boyfriend and I did. But her boyfriend was not that interested in them (he also felt that they were way too small).  So we decided that it might make sense for us to just team up and buy what we wanted, without trying to please the guys (which had become more of a chore than either one of us wanted).

The cool part was that we both preferred the little 320S Boondock over the other two.  She was ready to purchase it the day we looked at it, and it took me a little longer as I had always been planning on waiting until next year. But once I thought it over, it just seemed like this was the best time to buy, as the price was likely as low as it would ever be. So why wait?  Hopefully the guys will learn to like our T@B.

dragonsdofly

@Arwen, congratulations on your trailer! Welcome to the t@b family. Many adventures await. Happy t@bbing!

geekmama

Congratulations on your new trailer. I live in Massachusetts and if I remember correctly you're also in New England so maybe our paths will cross. I had a similar experience buying my t@b. I was saving to buy it when my last child turned 18, but while exploring loans I found one so cheap (1.74%) that it made more sense to buy it now so I wouldn't be renting any more cabins/RVs.

I just want to mention that after-market solar is quite easy to buy and use when you're ready for it. I'm still working and parenting so I don't plan to be far from shore power for a few years, but once I have more time to travel I might get myself some solar panels for my t@b.

ericnliz

@Arwen, Congrats on your choice! Welcome & happy camping! At this point, I'm guessin' the "guys" will just have to get over their own bad selves!

rkj__

Congratulations on deciding on a wonderful little camper. I hope it leads to many happy trips. 

jkjenn

Congrats! I think you will love your choice!

Arwen

Thank you for all the congratulations. and for all the help you have been in this thread.  Purchasing our first camper was way more difficult than I would have guessed.  It is so much more personal/emotional than anyone who has never been through this process could imagine.  But it has been all worth it so far (as this is just the beginning).

Having never towed any trailer before, it was a little scary driving out of the dealer's lot, and heading through downtown traffic, but both the Jeep and the T@B did great (I was a white-knuckled mess until we made it out of town and felt like I finally could breathe again). Then we came to our first really big hill (2,150' Sherburne Pass), which I had been dreading, but my Jeep had no problem with the climb, and we easily maintained the 50 mph speed limit.  Going down the other side was fine as well; I just used manual down shifting and only had to tap the brakes occasionally.

When we reached the interstate, we had a pretty good North headwind, but I the Jeep had no trouble maintaining 60 mph, even on the long hilly sections. And I didn't feel or see any trailer sway.

I've been told I have to post photos, or it didn't happen, so here they are:

About half way home . . . just a quick stop to make sure that all was well back there.

Both of us safely home in Northern NH, and happy! (Took me a couple of attempts to back the T@B in where we wanted it . . . need more practice!)

jgram2

Oh my goodness! What a perfect combo-all 3-car, T@B and owner! And you didn’t need all day to back it into the right spot!

dragonsdofly

@Arwen, yea!

Sharon_is_SAM

Nice!  You may want to secure those chains with a bungee.

Verna

@Arwen, I hope you don’t mind, but I changed the title of this discussion....since you FOUND a camper !  Congrats.

Arwen

Thanks for all the nice comments!

I felt I owed you all a follow up on how our first actual camping outing went.

The guys both insisted that we two be the first to camp in our T@B.  My friend and I are still both working (me full time) but we squeezed in a short 2-night trial camping trip a couple of weeks ago, at Grand Isle State park, which is about a 2.5 hour drive. There were some minor glitches (like getting the refrigerator to run on propane), but we managed to get everything working (VT parks have no hookups, so we were Boondocking).

The drive was a bit hilly, but my Jeep still got 17.5 MPG towing the T@B, with a full fresh water tank, and our long sea kayaks on the Jeep's rack, and it pulled like a dream (even though I'm still a bit nervous pulling it).  I'm sooo glad that I didn't get anything larger, as our T@B is exactly what I was hoping for when I first began thinking about buying a camper trailer.

We ordered the PahaQue Side Tent when we purchased our T@B but it had not yet arrived, as the tent for the higher Boondock as made per order (we should finally have it tomorrow). We had purchased a fairly large tarp, which I was able to rig up from the T@B's roof, out over the site's large picnic table, to a large tree. So we had a large dryish area:

We had a sudden thunderstorm right in the middle of cooking dinner the first evening, and I was VERY glad that we had an indoor kitchen area.  As others have posted, we have a small gas stove, so we still plan to cook outside sometimes. Up until last weekend, my only camping experience has been with my little back packing tent, so it is really nice to know that we can just back into a camping spot during a storm and instantly have a dry place to cook and sleep!  Our site was small, more for tents than for campers, but it was plenty large enough for the T@B. It was a bit tricky to get back into, as it required making a tighter than 90 degree turn, but I made it on my second attempt.

The 73" long twin bed is long enough me, but I am not comfortable standing at the sink/cooktop for very long. I knew this when I decided on the 320, which is why I'm going to add a little folding stool to our camping gear.

The weather was much nicer when we woke up and we spent much of the day on a long paddle around the large bay (the campground is along the shore of the East side of the island). Below is a secluded beach on a smaller island, where we stopped for lunch, before making the long trip back to the campground.

The Fridge worked great on propane (I didn't have any trouble getting it light and to run on Hi again, after my initial problems at home).  In fact, it worked too well, as we froze the carrots, before turning it down to Med.  And it was pretty hot and humid, in the 80s.  We were not the most conservative with our battery usage, as I spent a lot of time running the water pump, in my efforts to get the hot water working (which I finally succeeded at), and used up most of our fresh water in the process. So I got to experience lugging water with many trips will a one gallon jug, and filling the tank up again. Just before leaving on the third day, I checked the battery one last time and it was still at 12.3, which seemed ok as it was well above 50%.  The only problem was that it didn't seem to recharge on our trip home.  But it did fully charge after being plugged in overnight.

We did meet two other T@B campers while at the campground: one had the 320 S, and the other had the 320 CS-S.  After we got home, parked the T@B and unloaded all the gear, both of our boyfriends came over.  Mine had all sorts of questions, which was great!  They both seemed impressed that we had actually manage to have a successful camping experience (without them). And it appears that our little T@B is slowing starting to win the guys over.

My boyfriend and I are planning on a five day trip to the Adirondacks next month, so that will be the REAL test . . . fortunately we will have the tent addition by then, and I think that will make ALL the difference on how he views the T@B.  And having a stool to sit on at the kitchen area should definitely make cooking and clean up more comfortable. Plus our reserved site has electric and water hookups, so we won't have to worry about having enough battery power, water or using much propane.

And my friend and her boyfriend are planning on taking the T@B to Maine shortly after we return home.  So our co-purchase is definitely working out. My friend and I have no regrets, and our T@B is getting more use than if just one couple had purchased it.

Sharon_is_SAM

@Arwen, so glad this had worked out for you!  You will love the tent.  Adds another room to hang out in.  It can get stuffy if in the hot sun, so try to shade it when possible.  Enjoy the Adirondacks!

Arwen

Thanks Sharon! 

Our tent arrived yesterday, but it was too wet to set it up.  I did open it all up in the house and it looks to be really well made.  The trouble is that it didn't come with any setup instructions.  I figured out that the very long pole (like 20 feet) is for the outside arch, but does anyone know what the single pole (may 6 or 7 feet long) is for?

This is the PahaQue side tent room for the 320 Outback,

Travelin3D

PahaQue has a good setup video on YouTube for the tent and also the awning. 

Arwen

Thanks Richie, I found that video and watched it, but all they show is a single long pole (for the outer arch), which is black. At first I thought that the shorter silver pole might be to support the door as an awning, but that would require 2 shorter poles. So I'm a bit confused here.

Marceline

I think that it might be a pole that goes perpendicularly from the top of the arch of the long pole to the wall of the trailer to give the top of the tent some support when it is raining. I think that it's something that Pahaque has added in the last year or two. Hopefully someone who owns one will chime in. 

Arwen

Thank you Marceline, that is probably what it is for.  Now I just need to figure out how it attaches.  Hopefully it will be obvious as we're setting up the tent for the first time. 

The PahaQue tent appears to be well made, but it really surprised me that a $800 tent didn't include a 15 cent one page instruction sheet.

Edited: After searching more tonight, I finally located the instructions on the PahaQue website: https://pahaquecustom.com/store/docs/STTAB.pdf

"5.Locate and assemble the aluminum roof pole. At the top-dead-center of the Tent in the front and on the keder edge against the trailer are roof pole pockets. Insert both ends of the roof pole into the pole pockets."

So you were indeed spot on Marceline.

b407driver

@Arwen, so how did the 'boyfriend' trip go? This reads like a story without an ending!

Arwen

Sorry, I totally forgot to update this!

Even though I felt that the 320 would totally work for us, my boyfriend was convinced that this camper was too small for us.  But I had a few things going for me; like the fact that we had managed to camp the year before in my tiny little backpacker tent - for five days!  Since the 320 is so much more spacious than what we had been camping in, I knew that its small size was merely relative (depending on what you compared it with). Plus I had already figured out how to overcome our tallness issues, with just a bit of adapting on our part.

Buying the side tent was one of the best decisions I could have made, because once we set that up at home, my boyfriend's feeling about the 320 totally changed. We now had a little camper with a second room that had all sorts of headroom. Next I added a 24 inch tall folding stool, which solved the headroom issue at the kitchen sink/stove, with the bonus of being the perfect height for looking out the front window.

Our first trip together was a hiking vacation in NY's Adirondack's high peaks.  We stayed in a private campground not far from the trailheads and the T@B worked out even better than I had hoped - for both of us! It was our best vacation together (so far).

We have made a few changes this Spring to further improve our camp trips. My boyfriend added a 6" extension to his side of the bed (his pillow kept ending up on the floor) and I added a large watertight box to one side of the front cargo rack (to free up a bit more interior space) and a 3 gallon gas container plus a 5 gallon fresh water container on the other side. We already have three trips planned for this year.