"Boondocking"

NHCraig

Hi, folks - we've got a new 320S T@B, anxious to get out for our maiden voyage!  Our main usage will be camping around the northeast, as much as possible with hookups.  To us, "boondocking" will likely mean camping at a campground with facilities, but without hookups.  Looking for some advice on what's feasible.  I know the big power draws are AC and fridge, and probably we'd just use the fridge as a cooler as we'd have a ready supply of ice at a campground.  So if we skip those two, how easy is it to run lights, fan, stereo and/or tv off a 12v deep cycle battery for a day or two?  And what's a good recharging option?  I'm gathering there are at least two, a solar panel in the 100-120w range, or maybe a 2,000 watt inverter generator.  Which do people prefer?  The generator might at least give me more options for a few hours in the evening, it seems.  Any and all opinions welcome!  Thanks.

Sharon_is_SAM

This was just addressed on another thread.  The Tabber had a stock battery with less than 50 amp hrs, so you need to recharge after one day.  You can use Lucci solar lights, limit your fan run time, but it may be easier to get a battery with closer to 100 amps. That should get you a couple days and then recharge at home.  

Verna

Campgrounds normally limit the usage of generators to a few hours per day. Plus a lot of other campers are not fond of them.....

jkjenn

If you use your fridge as a cooler, I would try to use dry ice so the water doesnt leak out on the floor when ice melts.

ColoradoJon

I am a 100% boondocker.  If you have the 3-way fridge you can run it on propane for quite awhile.  Use the rear reading lights as their power draw is small.  The light over the stove has a bit more power draw.  Limit your use of the ceiling fan and water pump.  As @SAM said, you might want to get a bigger battery or invest in a dual 6V setup like I did, if you want to use the television and stereo.

If you are miserly you can get two days in

Solar is excellent.  Even a 100 watt panel will get you some power back during the day and can make a small battery last several.  The Zamp suitcases are easy and plug and play, but tend to run a bit more money than Renogy systems.

db_cooper

jkjenn said:

If you use your fridge as a cooler, I would try to use dry ice so the water doesnt leak out on the floor when ice melts.

If you're just out for one or two nights, just use a couple of frozen water bottles in the fridge, they'll still be frozen a bit when you get home.

rkj__

We have no issues on weekend trips with the stock size battery. 

With no shore power, we don’t use the fridge either, we use a cooler. 

We use the lights and water pump as much as we want. We use Alde on propane when needed, and can also use the fan a fair bit before it is a problem. 

For long weekends, we pack a 40W solar panel in case we need the fan a lot. 

We don’t have a television in our T@b, but we do charge our phones as well. 

xbooooo

If you have the new fridge, there is no battery drain when running off propane. 

ChanW

We usually use a couple of frozen bottles of water in the three way fridge to start a trip, use propane for the fridge when stopped, and conserve lights otherwise, and we'll go for 3 or 4 days without needing to 'plug in'. However, we also have a cooler with addl. food and with ice bottles in it.

ScottG

@NHCraig, I almost always camp as you describe--usually for minimum of four nights, and (thus far) up to a maximum of eight. We rely on propane, a larger group 27 battery, 100W of solar, and judicious use of power. As long as you get some occasional sun, you can camp indefinitely. The only thing that will absolutely not run without 120V AC is your air conditioner. (Mine lives in a box in the attic...)

And, since you and I might well cross paths somewhere here in the upper right corner, I'll reiterate Verna's point about public opinion toward campground generators.  ;-)

NHCraig

Thanks, all.  I think a portable solar panel and camping as many have described will suit us just fine.

CoriJ

For Texas blast you out hot summers where we are going to need the fan...What size Zamp solar panel should I buy?

Verna

I use a 200 watt Zamp suitcase with dual 6V golf cart batteries. While it won’t run the A/C, it is plenty for the battery spark needed for the Alde/water heater on propane, enough for the spark needed for the 3-way fridge, enough for the water pump and lights (although I use solar Luci lights for most of my lighting needs in the evening.  

CoriJ

My boondock fridge and heat pump run off propane so that should help.  Mainly wanting the fan on at night or adding an extra fan.  I fully expect a 110 degree summer this year.  Already getting temps next week at 105.

Verna

Yes, mine is us8ng propane for heating, water heater and 3-way fridge. 

O2 Fan has some nice 10” fans that are chargeable, battery operated or can operate off of 12V. I keep two with me for the dog....and myself, too. I use them on battery power or rechargeable batteries at night and then I charge them during the day. 

pthomas745

@jkjenn has a spreadsheet that describes the various power draws for all the devices in the Tab.  I have a 100 watt panel and the stock battery, and on sunny days I can run the fan pretty much all day.  On the lowest settings, the fan will use about 1 amp an hour.  If I have a charged battery at sunset, that means I have roughly 35 amp hours to use til the sun comes up the next day.  That would be plenty to use the fan and a few lights, etc.  If you know how many amps you have to use, and how many amps you want to use, it isn't hard to plan it out.  Verna's O2 usb/rechargeable battery options are great, too.  I have a small one that works quite well.

DougH

If stuck in Texas heat, with 200W solar and mid-sized battery bank, you can even run the AC for a few hours.

Verna

@DougH, where did you get the calculations for your A/C on batteries?  How large of an A/C unit are you using for these calculations?

CoriJ

Great sheet thanks!  Going to be a hot one in Texas this year!  I do have one of those Icy Breeze coolers that puts cold air out off ice.  Just not a lot of room for it.  But if desperate....

ericnliz

I'm still brainstorming on how I can retro-fit my extra mister lines on the keder rail to give a nice cool mist while sitting outside.  

pthomas745

@CoriJ , jkjenn has written a lot about Tab power and solar use, and she developed the spreadsheet.  You can check out her blog which has a great rundown, from the basics to the sophisticated.

https://jenngrover.com/2015/11/guilty-as-charged-rv-battery-use-management/

DougH

@Verna:  We only have two 125Ah 12V batteries so far to complement the one in the front. Might add a couple more for 500Ah total if the floor can take it.  Our 2016 T@B S Max only shows 450W continuous for the AC, and we have a 3000W sine wave inverter hooked to the batteries along with largish MPPT controller.  Some web solar calculator said if I'm getting in 150W on the panels and I want to stay above 50% discharge on the AGMs I could make up the other 300W for over 3 hours assuming 15-20% loss on the inverter.  Is that wrong?  I've run it a while even with only one 125Ah battery and the battery never dropped below 12.5V, but please let me know if I'm destroying my battery bank.

Verna

Well, @DougH, if you are willing to invest the money and space into that much battery power, go for it. Granted I don’t know everything, nor do I have all the answers, nor have I seen everything, so I guess all the Camper’s around you will be jealous of the A/C in the Texas heat. 

DougH

Renogy normally wants $300 per VMax 125Ah solar tank AGM (small, easy to place, only 75lbs each, and they charge super quick).  But as you know they often have sales or specials.  I'm just hoping once that volcano in Hawaii blows completely, the ash will cool the planet 25F or so.  But somehow only in the summer.  Might be too much to ask.

ColoradoJon

AC on batteries/inverter can be done, but it is not very practical.  It's all about amp draw.  A typical 13,000 BTU AC unit will draw approximately 150 amps per hour (1800 watts).  To use this unit for 2 hours you would need 600amps of battery storage, or 450 if you don't mind draw down below 50%.  It would take a 200 watt solar panel approximately 25 hours of optimal sunshine to recover this power.

If the AC unit is actually only 450watts, that equals only 37 amp draw per hour.  This seems extremely low to me for effective AC cooling.  But if it works, then awesome!  This is much more manageable and if it cools enough for you then I can see this system working well.

DougH

Thanks for the calculations... matches whatever site I got the estimates from.  I just used one of those plug in analyzers that shows voltage, frequency, current and power to see how much draw was from the 2016 AC unit.  Whether on low or high cool setting it was almost the same... only the fan speed increased.  450W is not much, but it's such a small volume to cool.  But with the stock AC having such a low BTU rating it does take a while to cool things off.  North TX is supposed to be 107F next weekend.  Colorado temperatures are calling...  if you can suffer yet another tourist. 

ColoradoJon

@DougH - 107F!!   And here I was complaining about the 83F we had this weekend...

Although it was a super busy weekend for camping here in Colorado, it should be better by next weekend.  Come on out and enjoy!

Sharon_is_SAM

I was going to suggest simply going to a higher elevation.  Probably nothing in Texas that would be high enough.

pthomas745

In the Arkansas River valley this week the relative humidity was basically zero.  If you find a spot with really low humidities an evaporative cooler would work.  They aren't perfect, but can provide some cooling. 

DougH

Back to NHCraig's original question, there's another new thread on the new factory solar option that's got a great sampling of the range of solar options folks use.  Super grateful for everything I'm learning on this forum, and all the mod ideas I plan to borrow. 

SolidCamper

After 3 years issues and uncertainty with Lead Acid Batteries, I decided to go for a Battleborn 100Ah Li-Ion battery and a Victron IP65 charger. I installed them yesterday, as seen in the photo. (Hope nobody sees any problem that mounting the charger directly to the hood).

I explained to the BBorn tech that it was my intention to turn the battery connection switch in the tub to "disconnect", i.e. the vertical position, and to run the Victron power cord thru the front window into an powered 120v outlet in the trailer. This obviously means that I'll need to have the trailer on shore power. The tech said that I BETTER be sure hat the battery is COMPLETELY cut off from EVERYTHING- ie, that there is no connection back to converter or anything else in the trailer.

So my question is- is the Battery Completely cutoff from everything in the trailer with the switch in the Disconnect position, and can I charge the battery the way I described. I'm being a little extra- cautious because the BBorn sounded like it sounded a little dubious. Thanks