Sewer Hose Carrier Mounting Method

BrianZ

I have started my preparations to install my 64" Valterra E-Z Hose Carrier on our 2018 T@B-S using my plan to adapt the plumbing part shown below to be used for mounting on the A-frame behind the front storage tub.

After cutting open the rubber tube, I ended up cutting it into thirds so I could use the 1-1/4" wide end pieces with hose clamps for mounting with a cable tie.


The rubber ring with stainless steel hose clamp is mounted on the tube.  This would be the approximate position of the passenger end of the carrier with rubber ring behind the back left corner of the storage tub resting on the frame.  The zip tie shows how it fits between the carrier tube & rubber ring, except the zip tie will be underneath the carrier and wrapped tightly around the frame.  Also note I have mounted standoffs with rubber feet to the carrier's mounting plate.


Closer view of the standoffs.  Rubber feet will rest up against the T@B's diamond kickplate in order to maintain the space needed for gas & electric lines to pass behind the carrier tube.  Standoffs are made with 1-1/2" stainless steel #10-24 Oval Phillip's Machine bolts with nylon insert lock nuts, 1/2x.194x1/2" Nylon Spacers, plus #10 & #12 washers, plus one extra large washer.  All metal parts are stainless.


Note that the #12 washer on the bottom of the feet is significantly smaller than the washer on the opposite side, such that when the bolt is tightened, the rubber curls towards the end.  My intent here is to have the rubber corners make contact with the T@B's diamond kickplate rather than the metal bolt.


Showing how the rubber curls.
This work is in progress, so I plan to add more photos after I have removed the tub & check fit on the T@B.

hymie

Looks great!

BrianZ

The first thing I did was remove the tub top & gas tank, then mark the rear edge of the tub on the frame as a point of reference.  See that top back corner of the tub? It's very sharp, so you may want to file it down some before trying to loosen the tub bolts.
Then I removed the four bolts mounting the tub & its frame to the trailer frame, and slid the tub forward to make room to work.  I made sure the tub was centered & symmetrically positioned on the frame, so I could mark positions of the holes to be cut for the tube.


Next, I  mounted, centered, & positioned the tube snugly against both trailer & frame, then centered the two rubber mounting straps with stainless hose clamps over the trailer frame, and secured them to the frame with 24"x3/8" zip ties. It turned out that I had slid the tub forward 7 inches, so I then measured 7" from the front side of the tube to mark the forward edge of the hole to be cut in the tub.  I used a level to mark the top position of the hole, then used a piece of pipe of the same diameter to draw a circle over the two reference marks for the hole to be cut.  The center of the circle would be 2-1/4" from both top & front of circle, easy to locate with a carpenter's square, or swing two 2-1/4" arcs from those two points & where they intersect is the center (useful for redrawing a larger circle).


This shows the two mounting straps positioned over the frame, and the scrap of 4" pipe used to draw the holes.  They will need to be enlarged about a half inch to make room for adding rubber edge trim to the cut edge.  The outer diameter of the pipe is 4.5", by the way.  Next, I'll use a compass or string to draw a larger circle with 1/2" larger radius.
I positioned the metal hose clamps so the tightening screw would be most accessible.  You can also see the gas hose which runs from the regulator mounted on the front wall to the distribution lines underneath.  I pushed it a bit to the left in order to get the most gentle bend in the hose where it goes behind the carrier tube.


View of the carrier tube in relation to the drain pipe.  It doesn't really interfere with access to the drain as I was concerned about.  Hole to be cut in driver side of tub marked also.  The standoffs give the impression of the carrier tube bracket being screwed into the trailer, but it is not.  The rubber feet just rest against the trailer.


View underneath showing the large zip tie (24x3/8") securing the rubber strap & its hose clamp to the frame.  It still needs to be trimmed off, because I used an oversized one for extra strength & so I would have plenty of length to grip & pull with two hands when tightening. It is very secure - I was not able to move it even the slightest bit in any direction.  The zip ties are made for outdoor use & are treated for UV light resistance.
More photos to be posted as work progresses.

ScottG

Clever idea for a screw-less installation! Are you planning to make the cut-out with a hole saw?

BrianZ

Good question, @ScottG .  I have several, but haven't checked their size yet - largest is probably one I used to make a wine rack from a 4x4 post.  Otherwise, I was planning to use my dremel tool, but hole saw is a great idea.  Thanks!  That step will be next today. 

The tube is in place, so the rest is just cosmetic & putting things back together.  I did notice that the tub frame will likely be right up against the tube, or the rubber hose clamp.  Since I can't put any part of the plastic tub under that strap, it may need to be trimmed to avoid the zip tie.  That corner of the tub is useless anyway after the hole is cut, except for cosmetics.  It may be a tight fit, but it should work. 

There's a slight chance I could have to reduce the length of my standoffs & use a 1/4" spacer instead of half inch.  I have an extra quarter inch for the gas hose, so that would still work.
By the way, I could actually remove the tube if needed, without removing the zip ties, by unscrewing the hose clamps completely.

ScottG

Thanks, @Brianz. I was pondering using a hole saw but wasn't sure if that would crack the plastic. Maybe run it in reverse at low speed? Frankly I was hoping you would give it a try on your expensive plastic bits first!  ;-)

I have one of those rotary zip saws I might try, although they can be a little hard to control freehand. If you see a future photo of my T@B with a big gash up the side of the tub, you'll know why!  :-)

BrianZ

😁
Ok, I checked & my largest hole saw is only 4", and the bigger they are, the harder to control.  I also have a reciprocating saw, but I think the biggest issue with any of these options is the vibration will be hard to control.  My first choice is going to be an old-fashioned handheld coping saw that I inherited from my father-in-law.  It has fine teeth & a very thin blade that cuts curves nicely.  I can probably cut most of the arc with its 4-3/4" working depth, then finish it with Dremel.

BrianZ

I finished this project yesterday, just before having to gather up an armful of tools before another downpour during this rainy month in central VA.

Here I used a high tech method to enlarge the radius of my cut about a half inch greater than the actual tube (4.5 diam).  This is a permanent marker, but a little rubbing alcohol on a rag will easily remove it.


In this driver side view of the back corner of the tub, you can see the same circular cut pattern drawn on the outside, along with a vertical line, which is what I cut first, and all the way through the line sketched on the inside next to the frame.


Here is why I made that first cut - so I could get the extra working space to use my aptly named coping saw.  I feel it was the best tool I had available to cope with an awkward cut like this.  The beauty of this tool, besides how its narrow blade allows easily changing directions for cutting curves, like a handheld jigsaw, is than you can rotate the blade to avoid its frame hitting the edge of the piece & restricting the depth of the cut. 


Finished cut, except for smoothing the rough edges with a file & dremel tool grinding wheel, which makes it easier to install the black rubber trim.


I used the trim mentioned in another thread, from Amazon..
Edge Trim Black Small, 1/8" Fits Edge (10 Feet Length) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00KG9BAY0
It worked well enough, though one side of the tub had extra think plastic, so was more of a challenge to get the trim on.  The trim has many little metal clips embedded inside the rubber.


While everything worked out fine, there was a moment when I thought it would not fit, because it was a tight fit.  In retrospect, if I had used 1/4" or 3/8" spacers in my standoffs, it might have been a better fit for my situation.  After finishing the trim around the holes, I was not able to slide the tub close enough, because its frame that rests flat needed to slide slightly under the tube, but I had already strapped the tube down tightly against the frame.  So, I had to cut off the two zip ties, so I could slide the tub back enough to line up the tub frame bolt holes with those in the trailer frame.

  After bolting the tub back on, I reinstalled a new pair of zip ties.  At that point, the carrier tube was so snugly wedged between the tub frame & the T@B that the zip ties almost didn't even seem necessary.  A 1/4" shorter spacer on the standoffs might have been perfect, though a snug fit is good too, so I was satisfied to leave it as is. 

The only other challenge I had was with one of the 4 mounting bolts whose nut got totally stuck halfway during tightening.  It didn't  seem to be misthreaded either, but I had to use so much force, with a vicegrips on the nut and heavy duty socket wrench on the head, that I twisted the bolt in half.

The rains came so fast that I barely had time to gather up my tools, so didn't even get a chance to actually try out the new carrier tube yet.
Next up - already have the hardware for a couple more of Dalehelman's mods, the replacement sink drain trap & door opener.  Is there ever an end to this?  I hope not.
7" of rain so far this month according to my rooftop weather station.

ScottG

Nice work. Good call with the coping saw!

ericnliz

@BrianZ, Having known @Dalehelman for quite a while now & having him do a couple mods on my trailer....as I see it, there are two requirements before starting: 1) Comfy lawn chair, and 2) cup of coffee. Somehow I think these 2 items help the mod pondering juices to get flowing. Nice job on the sewer hose tube. And to answer your question about having an end to the mods.....I think Mrs. @Dalehelman said it best: "It's become an obsession". All I could do was laugh!

BrianZ

Thanks, and that sounds like some good advice, @ericnliz !
You certainly have a great & talented friend in him, and it sounds like in many respects.  T@Bs are like a gold mine of projects for any DIY Mr. Fixit types.

Verna

@BrianZ, this is great!  I like that there are no screw holes into the T@B’s front and that you have protected the diamond plate from any damage from the flexing of the tube.  Thanks for the wonderful photos. 

ScottG

Yeah, I agree--with emphasis on the cup of coffee!  This is definitely one where you save the beer until the end! Unless, of course, you need it to build your courage and steady your nerves...  :-)

BrianZ

Thanks, @Verna, that was my primary motivation which kept me searching until I found the magic part I needed.  I suppose one could use only zip ties, but that could tend to squash the tube & maybe not grip it as well. Now that I think about it, the only thing that touches any part of the trailer is rubber.

Verna

@BrianZ, I hope you don’t mind, but I’m so impressed with with your no screw hole approach that I have sent the link to nüCamp, and it has been forwarded to the R&D department. 

BrianZ

Funny, @ScottG.  I did save the beer for later, though I can't remember how many times I stopped, looked again, reconsidered, re-measured, etc, before making that first cut.  The first side got trimmed piece-by-piece & took a while, & the second I just lopped it right off & done in no time.
You can't overthink a job like this & don't want to be in a hurry.  Whoever said measure three times & cut twice had the right idea.

BrianZ

That's fine, @Verna, glad you like it.  There are enough caulking/sealing vulnerabilities to worry about without adding more, if we can avoid it.

BrianZ

Ok, I promise this will be the last group of photos I intend to post under this topic, but I wasn't able to get these final after-install shots of inside & under the tub details, due to a rainstorm..

Final inside view, passenger side.  The rubber mounting strap is tight up against the tub frame & partly overtop of the back bottom end of it.


Same view on driver's side.


View from underneath of passenger side mounting details, with cut back corner edge of tub and new edging material at right.

Same view of drivers side mount.


View from above of inside the tub behind gas tank, showing clearance for gas line, with a little room to spare.


Our hose used to take up two of the three pieces of 4" pipe, and things were more crowded (I had added two more pipes to the one that came with the T@B when we first got it).  The connector at left is in the same place as before, hooked onto a carriage bolt & tightened with a wing nut, but I was able to move the other one from a mount that had been in the right corner & now gone, because it always interfered with getting into the battery box.

  In the original pipe, I've put a plastic container for gloves left from an empty can of Citrucel orange fiber drink, which is sturdy & has a nice screw cap.  I added a knob on top for pulling it out.  And there's still some space left.  I may add a fishing rod in it's own smaller tube to the passenger end of the new carrier tube.  Nice that it has caps at both ends.
Ok, I think I'm done with this now.

ScottG

I finally knocked this project off this week using @BrianZ's Fernco-coupling-and-super-duper-zip-tie mounting method.

Mounting the tube was a breeze; the bigger challenge came with remounting the tub. The tub framework of my 2015 is a little different from that shown in BrianZ's photos. On mine, the rearmost cross piece is mounted further forward, and the battery frame and rear propane tank support extend backward from it. Both contacted the tube when I attempted to remount the tub.

Since my standoffs were already as short as I cared to make them, I opted for lopping off the rear tank support, and performing some minor, um, "retooling" on the battery tray. Everything is tight, but it all fits! The tank--while still secure--is a little more wobbly without the third support, so I may add in another support at a different location.

I also had to reposition my modified group 27 battery box mount just a wee bit, but that was simple enough.

Ultimately, the frame layout of BrianZ's newer tub is superior, as it allows the full metal frame to contact the rubber Fernco belts and hold the whole assembly tight to the diamond plate. Mine has a little more play if you tug on it, but I think it will be fine. I'll add some simple buttresses if it proves necessary.

I'm belaboring this to point out that the framework of the tubs are not all the same. I'll also note that these things are not necessarily constructed to spacecraft tolerances; my frame was a little crooked relative to the plastic, and I even ended up having to trim back a small portion of the mounting plate on one side as it was interfering with the Fernco belt. While I highly recommend this mod, check clearances carefully and be prepared to do a little custom fitting on your particular trailer!

I should have taken better photos during reassembly. FWIW...

 

ericnliz

@ScottG, Thanks for sharing your experience with this mod. Nice work!

BrianZ

Thanks for your update, @ScottG, and glad you got it all done & looking so good.  I feel like I got off easy compared to all the challenges you had to deal with.  Your results look fantastic though.  Every one of these mods I've seen so far looks as if they came from the factory that way.  So, congrats for finding ways to deal with the unexpected!  It just shows how each situation can be a bit different, and you have to be prepared to adjust.
Your battery looks huge, by the way.
PS:
It looks as if you found some all rubber feet for standoffs?

ScottG

Well, thanks for coming up with the Fernco coupler idea. I normally enjoy puzzling through things myself, but that idea was too good to not appropriate! I've been planning this mod for a while so your write-up was perfectly timed.

The "feet" I made with stuff I had lying around. I don't know what they are called or where they originally came from, but they look like one-hole rubber stoppers, only not tapered. I pressed a small bolt tightly into the hole to make the mounting peg, then shaved them with my palm sander to better match the curve of the diamond plate. They don't really compress at all, but I think they'll serve the purpose.

The battery is just the next size up from the standard group 24. I think mine is 105ah. The box is a little bigger than the battery, and it looks even bigger sitting in the little tub.

ScottG

v2...

After yesterday's post and night to ruminate on it, I decided to go ahead and make the relatively simple improvements suggested above. I'm glad I did, as everything is now much tighter and more secure.

I replaced the third upright on the propane retainer ring--this one is set off to the side a bit so it doesn't interfere with the Valterra tube.

I also added two small lengths of angle aluminum on the bottom plate of each side of the tub frame. They mimic the tight-fitting frame member shown in BrianZ's photos, and--as Brian noted--keep the tube's feed held tight to the diamond plate. I'm now really happy with the whole installation. Thanks again to everyone for sharing your ideas and helping this project evolve.

And this time, I remembered to take a few photos before putting it all back together...

BrianZ

Looks great, @ScottG!  Glad you were able to get it all tightened up with your new mod-mod.  Those right angle supports on the sides really do look exactly how my frame lines up with the holes & the rubber Fernco strap.

While shopping at Home Depot today for a couple wire shelves to do Hymie's hinged rear storage area lid, I came across these rubber feet in the furniture pads section, and thought they would have been a useful addition to the ends of the standoffs for this storage tube mounting..

BogieMeister

Thanks for the wonderful pictures and advice. I followed you lead by mounting tube to the frame and adding "bumpers to offset the tube from the body. However, while I had the tub off the frame I added a floor to the tub. It's a thin piece of vinyl I picked up a Home Depot. It serves two purposes. It allows me to keep smaller pieces in the tub storage and it will keep a lot of road/rain debris out of the tub. I also remove that useless piece of 4" PVC.

ScottG

With almost a full camping season on the new "fastenerless" tube, I am happy to report everything is still very solid and nothing appears to have moved.

BrianZ

Great to hear, @BogieMeister and great idea to install a floor.  Glad things are holding up well for you, @ScottG - I guess all the extra work you did to reinforce things is paying off.

DougH

How is chafing and/or repeated constriction prevented to the propane line where it passes between the Valterra and the camper body diamond plate?  How tight is it between the two?  Could a line holder be attached to the Valterra to hold the propane line at a fixed offset with plenty of flex for bumpy roads?  Sorry for all the questions, but I started putting in a tube holder at that location and got concerned (perhaps needlessly) about potential safety issues on that line.

ScottG

@DougH, the standoffs I made are just large enough so the propane hose is not constricted. It does rest against the smooth side of the carrier as it passes behind it--I'll keep an eye open for chafing but I'm not real worried.

IIRC, one of the early adopters of this mod had a hose shop make a longer hose that would fit around the front of the carrier. That would be the ideal approach, particularly if chafing is a concern.

BogieMeister

DougH - On my particular T@B the Gas Manifold ( the metal device that splits the service to the fridge and the Aldi held my Trash Tube far enough away from the diamond plate that chaffing is not a problem at all.

DougH

OK thanks!  Guess I feel less hesitant now, and I have all the parts just waiting for me anyway.   Although... it'd be kinda kewl to look in the rear-view mirror and just see a huge ball of flame.