Tow Vehicle for Tab 400

jgram2

Welcome to the forum @sportscar68! I just typed Jeep 4 door Wrangler in the upper right search field and saw several interesting threads. You might try reading there until someone with real life experience replies. 

Denny16

While the Jeep Wrangler Unlimited (4-door) with factory towing package can tow up to 3500 lbs, it is restricted to a Hitch Weight of 315 lbs.  The TaB400 has an actual tongue weight of 400-460 lbs depending on load in the trailer (water tanks, gas, gear, etc.  the TaB 400 dry weight is below 3,00 lbs, it can handle be up to 3800 lbs fully loaded.  I think a Wrangler would be maxed out towing a TaB400, and if you did, you will need load level type hitch setup.  You could add a heavier rear suspension setup to handle the extra tongue weight. However, you would be better off, sticking to a TAB320 Boondock trailer behind the Wrangler.

Also, your tongue weight is part of your tow vehicle cargo/passenger load, and you should not exceed your tow vehicle’s max vechile weight (vehicle dry weight plus passengers, cargo, and trailer tongue weight

I tow my TaB400 with a Jeep JT Gladiator truck, which can handle upto 600 lbs tounge weight and 6500 lb trailer load.  This is what I feel is the minimum size vehicle to tow the TaB400.  
Cheers

sportscar68

Hey Denny16, thanks for your input, I’m pretty much on the same page. Hate to sell my Jeep, but my wife loves the trailer more. I need another TV. 

Denny16

Well, with the Jeep JT Gladiator you can have both, a Jeep and a truck, that can tow!
Cheers

DougH

And that new ad is priceless!

https://youtu.be/AnhzGUcENWo

sportscar68

Love that, but not in my budget😎 sounds like fun

DougH

First level Gladiator is only in the 30s, and there's up to $6k in discounts for last year's inventory right now.  But it's a Jeep so you must follow up initial purchase with $100k of upgrades.  Lift kit, 4 link, supercharger, wheels, winch, axles...  to start with. 

Denny16

I am in Calif, and I got out the door for around $42K, with the Sport S hardtop, bed liner sprayed on, tow package and Pos-Trac rear axle, which gives you the larger AT tires.
only extras I added were side running boards/rock guard and roll up bed cover.  Only future upgrades are the OEM trailer brake control (currently using a Kurt Bluetooth kit), and a BestTop Sunrider soft top to replace the front Freedom hard top panels for summer driving.   

Cbusguy

@jgram2 That thread makes me shake my head.    The math acrobatics to make it all work in her head.   Then the parting response is simply unbelievable and IMO dangerous.  

Amazonica

sportscar68 said:

Has anyone towed the 400 with a Jeep 4d Wrangler and how was the Jeep setup for towing, what is your experience?

Here goes:
I am towing a 2020 400 with a 2019 Wrangler JLUR. The 'internet Pros" will say many things, some of them correct. I was weighed fully loaded (but no water) by real pros (SmartWeigh) and am within the safe limits. Let me say that "comfortable towing experience" is EXTREMELY subjective. The 3500lb 4dr Jeep max towing limit is NOT subjective (neither is the 3100lb axle limit on my Rubicon). I have made modifications to acheive the proper Tongue weight (completely removed rear seat, etc) and have the "Tow Package" on my JLUR. I have towed through Colorado, Utah, New Mexico, and Texas. Hills, mountains, cities (Albuquerque, Houston!), cross-winds of up to 26 mph (bad planning), and pounding rain, and sway has not been an issue for me. I drive as slow as is legal (usually 5-10 under).

I love, love my Wrangler, but would I choose it as a TV for a 400 again? No. I have to watch my weight and balances VERY carefully, cannot carry full water tank(s), and have to keep a constant eye on my Transmission Temperature in the dash cluster. Can it be done safely? Yes- DEPENDING upon MANY factors - your Jeep model/options, hitch, trailer and tongue weight, your willingness to drive slowly/carefully, and pare down the weight substantially. We all have seen that "published tongue weights" can differ from reality. There are things you can do to change your tongue weight. This Forum has LOTS of wonderful tips.

But please, please don't take my word, or any other "internet opinion". Go to someone you trust, and don't just go to a "Certified CAT scale" that only weighs the whole axle. That will not tell you the balance, only whether you are overloading the axle or not. As a Jeep lover, I would say if you want less worry and a bigger safety margin, select a different TV. Towing has it's own risks regardless of what you drive. 

Excessive speed and poor driving style of ANY vehicle will endanger more of us than a safely driven Wrangler towing something within it's weight limits. 

Blueespy

JCALD said:

There is really no turbo noise.  It has more than enough power and torque for the task.  The 10 speed transmission works great, especially when you activate the tow programming.

Some interstate but mostly country roads.  On the interstate I set it on 75 and it tows great.  I usually stay around 65 or so on the smaller roads.  Rolling hills are pretty common where we have been so far.  Heading down to Garner State Park tomorrow so this trip will be through the Texas hill country.

Looking at a 2020 Ford Ranger XLT.  Thought with a factory tow package it would come with a seven pin connector - I didn't check when I did the vehicle walk around (didn't purchase but planning to) but I read it's only has a four pin.  How did you do the work around with the pin connector if your 2019 Ranger had only the four pin connector?

Denny16

You will need to have a 7-pin installed, bad move by Ford in my book, unless the truck is not rated for towing a trailer weighing more than 2,000 lbs, without the factory tow package installed, which should come with a 7-pin connection.
cheers

Denny16

As for towing a TaB400 with a Jeep, the new Jeep JT Gladiator truck is designed for towing, several towing options are available, all include a 7-pin and 4-pin connections, and my Sport S with factory tow package can handle 6K trailer and a 600 lbs tongue weight, more than enough for the TaB400.

rh5555

@Blueespy, you might want to look at this thread:  https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/comment/132463

The Ford Ranger seems sub-optimal as a TV and needs additional sway control according to @JCALD.  My theory is that the ratio of the TV wheelbase to the tow-hitch-to-rear-axle distance should be at least 3:1 to make sway issues undetectable.  The Ford Ranger has a ratio of 2.6:1.

JCALD

The Ranger does come with a 7 pin connector.  Contrary to the post above, The Ranger works great as a tow vehicle.  All you need is a sub $50 sway control to handle any strong cross winds.  No big deal.

JCALD

If you get the tow package it comes with a 7 pin.  If you don’t it comes with the 4 pin.

JCALD

Blueespy said:

JCALD said:

There is really no turbo noise.  It has more than enough power and torque for the task.  The 10 speed transmission works great, especially when you activate the tow programming.

Some interstate but mostly country roads.  On the interstate I set it on 75 and it tows great.  I usually stay around 65 or so on the smaller roads.  Rolling hills are pretty common where we have been so far.  Heading down to Garner State Park tomorrow so this trip will be through the Texas hill country.

Looking at a 2020 Ford Ranger XLT.  Thought with a factory tow package it would come with a seven pin connector - I didn't check when I did the vehicle walk around (didn't purchase but planning to) but I read it's only has a four pin.  How did you do the work around with the pin connector if your 2019 Ranger had only the four pin connector?

It does come with a 7 pin.

JCALD

Denny16 said:

You will need to have a 7-pin installed, bad move by Ford in my book, unless the truck is not rated for towing a trailer weighing more than 2,000 lbs, without the factory tow package installed, which should come with a 7-pin connection.
cheers

Just trying to clear up miss information being spread about the Ranger.  If you get the tow package it comes with both a 7 pin and 4 pin connector.  Without the tow package it comes with a 4 pin only.  With the tow package it is rated for 7,500 pounds towing and 750 pound tongue weight.

Denny16

To be clear, I did not say what the Ford Ranger towing capacity was rated for.  I was just pointing out, without the Ford OEM Tow package, you do not have a full towing capacity.  That said, it is probably more than adequate to tow a TaB 400, but not sure I would want to use it for a Avia.

I just looked up the towing specifications for the new Ford Ranger, which is trying to out market the Jeep Gladiator by saying it has 7,500 lbs towing, which Jeep came out last year.
in reality, the standard Ford Ranger XL/XLT (without one of the OEM tow packages) has a 3,500 lbs towing capacity, which is what the OP had indicated he had.

Like the Jeep Gladiator, only one specific model with a special configuration has a supposed 7,500 lbs towing capacity, per Ford, “Max towing (7,500 lbs) varies based on cargo, vehicle configuration, accessories and number of passengers. Towing and payload are independent attributes and may not be achieved simultaneously.”  

Both Ford and Jeep claims are somewhat ambiguous at best, and are more of a marketing ploy, than they are realistic abilities.  My Jeep Gladiator Sport S has 6,000 lbs (not the claimed 7,500) towing capacity and a tongue weight rating of 700 lbs.  But in reality, with the 400 lbs tongue weight of my TaB400 (measured) my Jeep Truck dropped 1/2 inch below level (it started out 1-inch higher than level in the back unloaded.  Add the weight, the springs compress, and yiu start to reach your max cargo load, which on my truck is only 1,000 lbs, (includes any passengers) with the options I have on it.  Load a truck with three adults, and you loose half your cargo, and now have on,y 500 lbs left for a trailer tongue weight. 

The max towing rating is based on a truck/vehicle’s ability to haul a test trailer up a specific grade at 60 mph, and get to the top without overheating.  Not really an engineering specification.   Same goes for tongue weight capacity, which eats into the trucks payload capacity.  A fully tricked out truck with lots of add on extras, is going to loose payload to the weight of its driver, passengers and vehicle accessories.

Bottom Line, be careful of dealer and manufacturers towing/cargo claims.  Personally, if I was towing a 7,000 lbs plus trailer, I would be using a 3/4-ton truck or equivalent SUV, something with some weight of its own in front of a heavy trailer behind it. 
cheers

JCALD

I agree.  There is no way I would tow anywhere near the rated levels of any mid sized truck.  The Tab 400 fits these trucks really well by being just under 50%.  My Ranger is still higher in the rear than front with the Tab in tow.

Denny16

Grand, which TaB do you have?

  I am thinking of adding the max load springs to my truck, to keep the rear from dropping down as much.  They are the same springs used in the Max tow package, and are progressive action, soft riding with no load, and as the load is increased they stiffen up to maintain the truck level.
Cheers

Dutch061

I can tell you all this much, currently I have a 2017 F-150 KR 4 x 4 crew cab with a 3.5 Ecoboost that is supposed to be the highest towing capacity in half ton trucks and it certainly isn't over kill. It pulls my 400 BDL  fine at 64 mph (or much faster if you desire) and the wheelbase is more than long enough to eliminate any sway issues or otherwise. To each his own, but myself I wouldn't want anything less than a half ton. I don't have to mess around taking things out or moving things around to make it safe to tow. I have spent most of the last 25 years towing things from small open trailers, heavy cargo trailers, tow-able campers, 5th wheels, and now this 400 BDL; all without any issues. Mainly because I always had more than "the minimum required vehicle" for the load I was towing. I am a firm believer that "more tow vehicle" than required is always safer regardless of what is being towed.

Denny16

Good advice.  My Jeep truck has 600lbs tongue wt and 6,000 tow capacity, with a 1200lbs cargo capacity.  More than enough for my TaB 400.
cheers

N7SHG_Ham

@Dutch061 yep! I have taken some ribbing about towing with a full size 3/4 ton pickup, but I agree with your assessment that is adequate and no worries. I wouldn't want to tow with less than a 1/2 ton or equivalent vehicle. The 400 tows "hard" for size and requires something that can easily handle the heavy for it's size hitch weight. The plus is if you have an adequate tow vehicle, then it tows well with no sway or other bad traits.

NoVaGuy

I am towing my 2020 T@B BD lite with a 2019 Toyota Tacoma Off-Road.  The vehicle has more than enough power.  RPM's hover between 2.2K and 3.5k on a typical run.  I do take a hit in MPG.  Drop from about 19 to 10-12 depending on the uphills.

Ballermaris

I have my 2018 Jeep Wrangler set up to tow the 320S that I have. The Wrangler is heavily modified. 2" lift, runs on 35" tires, K&N Cold Air Intake, 4.56 Electric Locker front Dana 30 Axle and 4.56 Electric Locker rear in Dana 44 NextGen axle. Both lockers are Eaton's.
The trailer uses wireless braking, so I have a wireless controller and the trailer does have a rear camera that I use while towing. I had to get strap on towing mirrors, but that was no real difficulty.

I discovered that the Wranglers for many they come out of the factory with 3.21 gearing. I have to assume that would be a factor in any towing too. The 4.56's in my Wrangler, I turn around 2500 RPM on the highway so that is acceptable. The plus side of that gearing is that it gives the Wrangler a bit of extra grunt without having to resort to using the transfer case gearing in a hilly backup situation.

In the distances I have towed the trailer, I pulled around 12.5 to 14.5 MPG over medium distances, so I look forward to some long towing, perhaps to the Smokies later in the year.

atlasb